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  1. #136

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    Sure, but there is room for both. In N Out fits the theme the same way that the Hollywood Brown Derby belongs at Disney Studios (and I'd be all for bringing that to DCA as well -- their food is outstanding). A lot of people come to Southern California and In N Out really is on their list of things to visit while they are here, like Pink's Hot Dog's or the place that invented the French Dip Sandwich. If DCA is supposed to be the highlights of California, then In N Out is one of them. Besides, I think Disney has proven over the last 58 years that they can not make a really great burger, although they have gotten better over the past few years.
    Well, for one thing the real Hollywood Brown Derby has been extinct for decades. I also like the food at the Florida incarnation and would not mind it at DCA but we already have Carthay Circle. The Brown Derby is also NOT a franchise that anybody can visit past any freeway off ramp in California. If it's the whole California thing, why not Carl's Jr? Carl Karcher started his first drive inn in Orange County. Why not Johnny Rockets, which started in California? Jack in the Box? Ruby's? Tommy's? the Habit? I could go on and on but I won't because I would not want any of them in the parks. Why? Because I can get them anytime I want in the outside world.
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  2. #137

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Honestly? Cost effectiveness.

    Disney would have to purchase coffee from *someone*. Expecting them to buy a supply chain to manufacture specifically Disney coffee is not a reasonable expectation - it's not Disney's line of business, it's a major departure from what they do, and it would be incredibly risky to join in as they would VERY likely be more or less forced into opening Disney chain coffee shops in a world that already has Starbucks, Coffee Bean, Peet's and more.

    The previous coffee was in all honesty pretty bad. I'm not picky about mine - I'll drink Folger's if it's what's available - and still would not drink theirs.

    So Disney was faced with a choice - go with a lesser known brand that would be grateful but not provide any real value other than better coffee, or go with a brand that would help raise the income of a fairly underused space.
    If the issue was bad coffee, there are NUMEROUS brands of coffee that are very good. Having cheaped out on the quality of coffee they sold was just another short sighted maneuver to boost their bottom line.

    Their solution of having an actual Starbucks on the park was overkill. If they were actually focusing on the brand image as the reason, then that's just another reason it doesn't fit on Main Street. What's the most important point? Is it providing their guests with the best coffee they can, or providing their guests with a popular brand?

    Disney COULD buy the coffee from Starbucks without having to actually install a Starbucks business.

    Are all the rest of the restaurants in Disneyland still selling the inferior coffee? Or are they selling Starbucks brand coffee at every location?

  3. #138

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Hey, I have a better idea. How about Disney come up with a better burger and stop with the franchise nonsense.
    Sounds good on paper....yet they've never done it...this is why I go to Restaurants out side the Mouses Kingdom to get food when I can...but I can say with a straight face that Toppers Pizza..is ten times the pizza you canget a Disney land, so I'd rather all restaurants in the parks be something you can get outside the parks if they taste GOOD instead of the just ok food we get today

  4. #139

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    Sounds good on paper....yet they've never done it...this is why I go to Restaurants out side the Mouses Kingdom to get food when I can...but I can say with a straight face that Toppers Pizza..is ten times the pizza you canget a Disney land, so I'd rather all restaurants in the parks be something you can get outside the parks if they taste GOOD instead of the just ok food we get today
    I prefer the food outside the parks as well.




  5. #140

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Well, for one thing the real Hollywood Brown Derby has been extinct for decades. I also like the food at the Florida incarnation and would not mind it at DCA but we already have Carthay Circle. The Brown Derby is also NOT a franchise that anybody can visit past any freeway off ramp in California. If it's the whole California thing, why not Carl's Jr? Carl Karcher started his first drive inn in Orange County. Why not Johnny Rockets, which started in California? Jack in the Box? Ruby's? Tommy's? the Habit? I could go on and on but I won't because I would not want any of them in the parks. Why? Because I can get them anytime I want in the outside world.
    I'll grant you that no one can visit the Hollywood Brown Derby anymore, but also no one comes to So Cal and has Carls Jr on their list of things they want to do when they are here. Many people do come here with In N Out on their list.
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  6. #141

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    If the issue was bad coffee, there are NUMEROUS brands of coffee that are very good. Having cheaped out on the quality of coffee they sold was just another short sighted maneuver to boost their bottom line.

    Their solution of having an actual Starbucks on the park was overkill. If they were actually focusing on the brand image as the reason, then that's just another reason it doesn't fit on Main Street. What's the most important point? Is it providing their guests with the best coffee they can, or providing their guests with a popular brand?

    Disney COULD buy the coffee from Starbucks without having to actually install a Starbucks business.

    Are all the rest of the restaurants in Disneyland still selling the inferior coffee? Or are they selling Starbucks brand coffee at every location?
    There were numerous issues as I pointed out. The layout of the store - something the preservationists want brought back - meant it was gridlocked with minimal customer flow. The remainder of the store merch was not particularly themed. The product itself was sub par.

    I think they saw a chance to achieve similar results in one of two ways - partially rebuild the space, put in a Starbucks, reap the sponsorship cash as well as whatever rake they get off the rental agreement for the space... or spend large amounts more to try to get the same result by improving the coffee drastically, completely rebuilding the space (which seems to be the biggest complaint in general anyway) and then having to advertise the fact that this had all happened. "Come back to the Market House - Our Coffee Doesn't Suck Any More" isn't exactly a clarion call.

    I have to side with the bean counters on this one (heh heh). Unless they were going to transition the Market House into either a completely different kind of store or remove it from retail function entirely, this is about the most cost effective way possible to solve the issues with that space. Doing it on their own would have been expensive and would not have represented a clean "break" from the previous incarnation of space and product without both the massive rebuild expense AND an advertising campaign that would unfortunately be coming from a "we sucked but got better" point of reference. Not exactly what Disney likes putting on the market.
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  7. #142

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    I'll grant you that no one can visit the Hollywood Brown Derby anymore, but also no one comes to So Cal and has Carls Jr on their list of things they want to do when they are here. Many people do come here with In N Out on their list.
    True. CA expats are usually pretty easily identified. My brother-in-law who moved to the east coast has two stops on the way from the airport that are mandatory, and the Double Double stop is absolute priority.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  8. #143

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Unsure how In & Out which is a California staple, is any different than having the Boudin Bakery, or Ghiradelli's.

    Dont remember there being complains of "too much franchising" when Ghiradelli's was put in at least.

    An honestly Disney burgers are pretty bad
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  9. #144

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Unsure how In & Out which is a California staple, is any different than having the Boudin Bakery, or Ghiradelli's.

    Dont remember there being complains of "too much franchising" when Ghiradelli's was put in at least.

    An honestly Disney burgers are pretty bad
    There probably were very few complaints. I think Starbucks is the easy target because a) it's size and the negative connotation some people have with it and b) the belief by some that it's destroying the theming on Main Street. It very easily should/could have equally been despised in DCA but the attachment to Walt's original park brings out more passionate opinions for sure.

    As for the burghers, they have gotten better if I remember correctly. That being said, I'd rather eat at Varsity Burger or Farmer Boys (both on Lincoln) or In N Out. I rarely ever ate a burger at Disneyland. Waaay too many very good to great quality options throughout both parks now. Far better than even 5 years ago.

  10. #145

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    I prefer the food outside the parks as well.
    Oh, I'd prefer to eat something other than theme park food but you gotta agree (to some extent) that the food offerings are not all bad, ranging from poor (hello Redd Rockets) to excellent (hello most of DCA)

  11. #146

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    Re: The New Market House...

    As far as burgers go, the best I've found is ESPN Zone.
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  12. #147

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Unsure how In & Out which is a California staple, is any different than having the Boudin Bakery, or Ghiradelli's.

    Dont remember there being complains of "too much franchising" when Ghiradelli's was put in at least.

    An honestly Disney burgers are pretty bad
    Is there a Boudin Bakery or Ghiradelli's on every freeway off ramp in Calif? No? I didn't think so.
    Boudin or Ghiradelli's aren't much in the way of franchises:

    Boudin - 13 locations
    Ghiradelli's - 19 locations
    In and Out - 281 locations

    Boudin and Ghiradelli's are mostly found in Northern California so it makes obvious sense to be
    in the Pacific Wharf section of DCA.
    Last edited by Disneymike; 10-02-2013 at 10:48 AM.
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  13. #148

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Is there a Boudin Bakery or Ghiradelli's on every freeway off ramp in Calif? No? I didn't think so.
    Boudin or Ghiradelli's aren't much in the way of franchises.
    No but they are still a corporate franchise and some would argue why Disney needs any other corporation to run a store or restaurant inside one of their parks. There's a difference between corporate sponsorship i.e. these bathrooms sponsored by Brawny versus a full-on Starbucks for example. Not taking sides here but I can understands both sides of the coin, pro and con.

  14. #149

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by alphabassetgrrl View Post
    As far as burgers go, the best I've found is ESPN Zone.
    They are quite good. Red Robin, Friday's, Chili's, the big sit down chains...all very similar.

  15. #150

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Is there a Boudin Bakery or Ghiradelli's on every freeway off ramp in Calif? No? I didn't think so.
    Boudin or Ghiradelli's aren't much in the way of franchises:

    Boudin - 13 locations
    Ghiradelli's - 19 locations
    In and Out - 281 locations

    Boudin and Ghiradelli's are mostly found in Northern California so it makes obvious sense to be
    in the Pacific Wharf section of DCA.
    Ghiradelli chocolates and Boudin breads are in every supermarket.

    So yes, you could get their products off of every off ramp

    There are more of those than there are In & Out restaurants

    I don't understand why 'availability' is a hindrance?

    Should Disney sell no product that's available 'on the outside'?
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