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  1. #196

    • A Happy Haunt
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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by JCSkipr79 View Post
    ^^ Exactly. There is a sect of "Disney fans" that give two flips about the theming, design, or historical integrity of the parks and only like Disney cause of the movies and characters. They need to stop going to the parks.
    Dismissing someone's love for Disney, based upon their love of the films and characters... Then suggesting they to visit a place that embraces them and they in turn can embrace, seems a bit inconsiderate to me.

    Disneyland is not about "historical accuracy". No way. Trumpet your disdain for historical inaccuracies all you want, it's never going to be that. It never was.
    Main Street is about a "feeling", the innocence and warmth from a small mid-American town that many of us have buried in the depths of our memories and imagination. It has no "time".
    Old and young alike, feel it. The old dig it from their past, the young are experiencing it in the present (as they enter Disneyland).

    if this means an old times flair to the Starbucks, so be it. It works, go stand in line and see.

    mission accomplished.

  2. #197

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    So, confession time here. Last time I was in the park I decided to walk by and see how things were looking at the Market House, and I realized that the Market House is in a completely different place then I thought it was (I was thinking it was directly adjacent to the Kodak Corner). In all the years that I've ever been to DL, I'm not sure I've ever set foot in the Market House. In the rare times I've gotten coffee at DL, it's always been at the Blue Ribbon Bakery. So that means that in all the times I've gone there as a guest (probably coming up on 100 times or so) and working there almost every day for over three years, I apparently never set foot inside the Market House. So while I agree that it seems like Disney could have done better, I guess I can't really complain too much about it. So I don't know if my experience is typical for most guests or not, but having the storefront themed appropriately is apparently the only thing that guests like me will notice.
    A nail was just hit on the head.

    There will be more visitors to the building, which can translate into more $ in impulse shopping sales. And maybe even more sales, period.

  3. #198

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    Re: The New Market House...

    The Market House ain't used to be now...

    No longer a cozy homely coffee shop.

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  4. #199

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Whether or not I'd been to the old Market House in recent years is irrelevant to me because all I can think of is a time when there WAS the old Market House and the fact that I can't drop in to soak up the atmosphere anymore is sad to me. I used to use lockers every trip that are in that little alley and would duck into the Market House periodically to check out the merchandise, pick up a party line, or grab a hot chocolate. There was always someone playing checkers and the cozy feeling it once had is just irreplaceable. I understand that once they introduced a popular brand of coffee, they had to create a space that could withstand the traffic but couldn't we still have that quiet little coffee shop too? Tucked in a small corner somewhere?


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  5. #200

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyFunGuy View Post
    HORRIBLE! HORRIBLE! HORRIBLE! Disney ruined what used to be the Market House on Main Street. All because they decided to incorporate a Starbucks! This new look is way too modern and it now has completely lost it's historic charm! Way to go, Disney...you screwed this one up BIG TIME!
    So you mean they destroyed that store too just like they did the ice cream shop? wow what a surprise, I would never have expected that.........................

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  6. #201

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Here's a thought. What if instead of expanding Carnation Cafe, Disney incorporated Starbucks into the Blue Ribbon Bakery? While space may have still been limited, the area could have been reconfigured so that there was less counterspace and a double queue. Since (as far as I know), the space inside Blue Ribbon was much more recent than the space inside Market House, it is likely that less nostalgia and sentiments were associated with it. Granted, if they took this route, Carnation would not have expanded (which I think was a good move), but at least it would mean that the Market House would have survived as-is.

    Or better yet, they could have just put Starbucks in at the recently-renovated Jolly Holiday Bakery, but the queue space would also have been limited there.

  7. #202

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    Re: The New Market House...

    I don't see why they couldn't have just switched over resort coffee brands from Nescafe to Starbucks instead of actually implementing a Starbucks store within the parks. I see that it's a money factor, and that's about all I see. There are smart ways to rope in the cash, and then there are less savvy ways and I'm sorry but sacrificing theme for money should never be the answer.


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  8. #203

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyInWonderland View Post
    I don't see why they couldn't have just switched over resort coffee brands from Nescafe to Starbucks instead of actually implementing a Starbucks store within the parks. I see that it's a money factor, and that's about all I see.
    Starbucks is just as stringent with its image and product as Disney is. Starbucks will allow "proudly brew Starbucks coffee" labels on coffeepots, but they will not allow someone to offer Starbucks products other than black coffee without the baristas being trained, vetted, and reviewed by Starbucks personnel. Believe it or not, they were concerned that Disney would mess their product up. It wasn't just about the money. Starbucks wanted control over the brand, too.

  9. #204

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyInWonderland View Post
    I don't see why they couldn't have just switched over resort coffee brands from Nescafe to Starbucks instead of actually implementing a Starbucks store within the parks. I see that it's a money factor, and that's about all I see. There are smart ways to rope in the cash, and then there are less savvy ways and I'm sorry but sacrificing theme for money should never be the answer.
    You know, I'm wondering the same thing. I'm sure they would had to change the space behind the counter to accommodate all Starbucks' bits and bobs, but they could have set up a queue in the back by the food shelves, removed the counter/register close to the door to add some space, trained the baristas however Starbucks wanted and left the place alone.
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  10. #205

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsciv View Post
    Starbucks is just as stringent with its image and product as Disney is. Starbucks will allow "proudly brew Starbucks coffee" labels on coffeepots, but they will not allow someone to offer Starbucks products other than black coffee without the baristas being trained, vetted, and reviewed by Starbucks personnel. Believe it or not, they were concerned that Disney would mess their product up. It wasn't just about the money. Starbucks wanted control over the brand, too.
    Heard that before and sounds reasonable.

    They take their coffee seriously, every Starbucks everywhere has to be prepared and taste exactly the same. Thats consistency for you, which they might not have gotten if they used regular Disney CMs

    And probably licensing, I dont think Starbucks would have want to have been hidden.
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  11. #206

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyInWonderland View Post
    I don't see why they couldn't have just switched over resort coffee brands from Nescafe to Starbucks instead of actually implementing a Starbucks store within the parks. I see that it's a money factor, and that's about all I see. There are smart ways to rope in the cash, and then there are less savvy ways and I'm sorry but sacrificing theme for money should never be the answer.
    The MH was very well known for how awful the coffee was. There were a devoted legion of coffee drinkers who'd warn anyone who ever headed that way not to bother. There were more coffee drinkers who said things like "Oh, it can't be THAT bad" and went anyway and converted (I was one).

    I'm willing to try MH again. I'll be absolutely honest here - a complete break with the prior store is the ONLY way I'd trust the coffee at that location. Otherwise there'd be too much of a chance that the coffee in question was still being brewed improperly or run through a dead moose or whatever they did that resulted in coffee measurably worse than the same grounds a land away.

    I know I'm not alone in this. There are entire volumes written about the marketing issues of trying to fix a damaged brand (and a few of them regurgitated here during the DCA rebuild for obvious reasons). They could have swapped coffee and still had the image problem that they'd have to spend a large amount of money advertising to even begin to fix the damage (or wait with an underutilized store space and hope word of mouth eventually convinced the crowd), or they could bring in a new tenant and fix the majority of their issues in one shot.

    Considering they wanted to utilize the space as a shop, the rebuild and widening of in-store traffic paths and the more organized queue were going to happen regardless. I'm just glad they've also fixed the coffee in a way that might actually do the store some good.
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  12. #207

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsciv View Post
    Starbucks is just as stringent with its image and product as Disney is. Starbucks will allow "proudly brew Starbucks coffee" labels on coffeepots, but they will not allow someone to offer Starbucks products other than black coffee without the baristas being trained, vetted, and reviewed by Starbucks personnel. Believe it or not, they were concerned that Disney would mess their product up. It wasn't just about the money. Starbucks wanted control over the brand, too.
    Fine. Then just sell BLACK COFFEE. The coffee that they are replacing was black coffee (that no one apparently liked). If it was the coffee flavor that was the problem, then providing a better tasting coffee should have solved the problem. The whole trendy flavored coffee served up by baristas in a somewhat themed modern layout is the core of the issue about destroying the turn-of-the-century ambience of the Market House.

  13. #208

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Fine. Then just sell BLACK COFFEE. The coffee that they are replacing was black coffee (that no one apparently liked). If it was the coffee flavor that was the problem, then providing a better tasting coffee should have solved the problem. The whole trendy flavored coffee served up by baristas in a somewhat themed modern layout is the core of the issue about destroying the turn-of-the-century ambience of the Market House.
    OK, question for you then - how long (months? years?) would it be acceptable to wait for word of mouth to spread that the coffee is OK where it would be likely that the store would run at a loss?

    Or if you advertise, how long are you willing to wait for a new ride, major refurbs and such so that the budget can be spent on the unplanned advertising necessary to alert the crowd of locals who knew the previous incarnation and would not willingly buy MH coffee because of it?

    MH had a problem. They had low useage as a store space and what space they had became unusable and gridlocked with minimal queuing for the registers. The interior was going to be remodeled for better sales flow the moment they opted to keep it as a store rather than redoing the space as an interactive character experience.
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  14. #209

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Fine. Then just sell BLACK COFFEE. The coffee that they are replacing was black coffee (that no one apparently liked). If it was the coffee flavor that was the problem, then providing a better tasting coffee should have solved the problem. The whole trendy flavored coffee served up by baristas in a somewhat themed modern layout is the core of the issue about destroying the turn-of-the-century ambience of the Market House.
    Actually the nescafe machines were serving mochas and lattes and all that jazz as well.

    Wanst just normal black coffee

    Though the base of these coffee drinks, espresso, has been around since 1884ish
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  15. #210

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Fine. Then just sell BLACK COFFEE. The coffee that they are replacing was black coffee (that no one apparently liked). If it was the coffee flavor that was the problem, then providing a better tasting coffee should have solved the problem. The whole trendy flavored coffee served up by baristas in a somewhat themed modern layout is the core of the issue about destroying the turn-of-the-century ambience of the Market House.
    I hate to resort to "you wouldn't understand" here, but coffee beverages are far beyond "trendy" now. They might have been mere trend earlier, but now they are a part of the fabric of modern society. Yes, there are the outrageous "venti-triple-half-caff-skim-strawberry-machiatto" type of trendy orders, but Starbucks is everywhere because there is regular demand for their products: the more normal lattes and lighter coffees that modern palates prefer are a staple now.

    Starbucks began a concerted effort to import and Americanize the coffee culture of places like Italy in 1983. That's thirty years. It's not a flash in the pan and it's not about trend anymore.
    Last edited by jsciv; 10-07-2013 at 02:01 PM.

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