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  1. #61

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    Re: The New Market House...

    I don't care for the look myself, but my theory is that they actually tried too hard, not that they don't care. It looks to me like they tried too hard to appease the people who wanted it to still look like it used to, while also trying to appease the people who want/demand better coffee in the parks. The truth is that the space they are using was not built to accommodate large crowds, and so they tried to design it in a way that can accommodate as many people as possible while making it still feel like the old Market House, and I think they probably failed on both levels. I have a feeling this place is going to see some insane lines come Thanksgiving and Christmas, and it doesn't feel like the Market House at all.
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  2. #62

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mondo Mouse View Post
    I HATE that put starbucks in Disneyland!!
    I like the idea of getting decent coffee and breakfast in DL. This could have as easily been a Dunkin Donuts. What I don't like is that they put on Main Street. That's my only beef with Starbucks. I would have preferred to see it DCA or Tomorrowland, which is already messed up anyway.

  3. #63

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    In a nutshell: shut up and take whatever poor scraps Disney throws at us and be happy, or else you are a whiner.

    It isn't a valid argument, sorry. Additionally, no one really complained about the items on your list. Matter a fact, the majority of people on this forum praised those additions because Disney at least put a decent amount of effort and it showed. This Starbucks demonstrates a lack of either budgeting or design on the part of the Imagineers.

    Far as the general public goes, they have no clue why they even enjoy the park from an artistic standpoint, so designing something for this category isn't a long-term solution for the success of Disneyland. It takes professional artists and intelligent engineers to show them the way.
    Of course it's a valid argument. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it valid. I'm sure there are those that are happy with Starbucks and many of the changes that others dislike. Is their opinion invalid because you don't agree with it?

    And who are you or anyone else to generalize that the general public has no clue why they enjoy the park from an artistic standpoint. I'm sure there are plenty of regular parkgoers that are very happy with the look and feel of the new Starbucks.

    And going back to my original point, there was a comment that Disney is souless and doesn't care anymore. In my opinion, that was an over dramatization which you and others are free to disagree with. I'll stick with my opinion that many people here and other boards overreact (Small World Rainforest, Jack Sparrow POC come to mind) to anything they feel is ruining Walt's dream. I'll call Disney out when needed and while I said I'm not really in favor of it on MSUSA, it's not going to diminish my enjoyment of the park in the slightest...I stopped looking for chipped paint and burned out light bulbs years ago after I realized I spent too much time looking for what was wrong versus enjoying all the things that were right.

  4. #64

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    I have a feeling this place is going to see some insane lines come Thanksgiving and Christmas, and it doesn't feel like the Market House at all.
    True in both respects but to be fair, Market House had some pretty insane lines at those times of year as well.

  5. #65

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by stevek View Post
    Of course it's a valid argument. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it valid. I'm sure there are those that are happy with Starbucks and many of the changes that others dislike. Is their opinion invalid because you don't agree with it?
    It isn't valid because you are using ad hominems in your statements. It's a fallacy to brush off others opinions by associating them with whiners and complainers.

    And who are you or anyone else to generalize that the general public has no clue why they enjoy the park from an artistic standpoint. I'm sure there are plenty of regular parkgoers that are very happy with the look and feel of the new Starbucks.
    It's not about me, it's just a fact that unrestricted artists and professionals have a far better understanding of what the public wants than the public themselves. Had Walt and his Imagineers listened to the public all those years by following trends, they wouldn't have garnered half their success. Even though the average joe may perceive this Starbucks to be of Disney quality, in reality they have no clue or ability to understand that the brand and implementation just isn't healthy for the long-term success of Disneyland. These same people who were fine with the introduction of McDonalds in the park are doing it yet again.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 09-28-2013 at 06:51 PM.

  6. #66

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    Re: The New Market House...

    It's a silly flag to wave. The percentage of those who find offense vs those who will pay for Starbucks. Guess who wins.

    I personally think its it's a step in the right direction. It's profits can only help our beloved park grow. Growth is good. Stagnant nostalgia is ... Well, look at the Griffith Park railroad "thing". It's a rusting memory of "that".

  7. #67

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwingdolt View Post
    It's a silly flag to wave. The percentage of those who find offense vs those who will pay for Starbucks. Guess who wins.

    I personally think its it's a step in the right direction. It's profits can only help our beloved park grow. Growth is good. Stagnant nostalgia is ... Well, look at the Griffith Park railroad "thing". It's a rusting memory of "that".
    Chipping away at Disneyland's sole purpose as a THEME park to satisfy a niche market of uninformed guests isn't what's best for long-term business. Maintaining the parks ability to provide unique entertainment that can't be found anywhere else is what's ultimately responsible for Disneyland's bottom line, not common products that can be found at almost every corner in your own neighborhood.

    The reaction you may be hearing on this board may be partially nostalgia based since we are fans, but I can assure you it is also from a perspective that knows how much entertainment value Main Street provides for Disneyland as an attraction first. You cannot simply gut away 50+ years of history and not expect to hurt your product.

    The analogy with Griffith Park is also totally irrelevant since Main Street is heavily thriving and is well maintained, it's not some monument that is rotting away. If you want to be consistent with your belief, how about you educate those silly nostalgic Europeans who keep thousand+ year old buildings around; tell them to bring out the bulldozers and see how that goes. After-all, you believe it would improve their tourist industry, just as you believe it would for Disneyland.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 09-28-2013 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #68

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwingdolt View Post
    It's a silly flag to wave. The percentage of those who find offense vs those who will pay for Starbucks. Guess who wins.

    I personally think its it's a step in the right direction. It's profits can only help our beloved park grow. Growth is good. Stagnant nostalgia is ... Well, look at the Griffith Park railroad "thing". It's a rusting memory of "that".
    Exactly.

    For an example of nostalgia gone rancid even closer to home, look what's become of Knott's Berry Farm in the areas that are still "original". Been to Mrs. Knott's Chicken Dinner Restaurant lately? It's like a bizarre cross between a nursing home, an old Elks Lodge, and a junior high school cafeteria circa 1978. And the cleanup crew called in sick the night before you went.

  9. #69

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    Re: The New Market House...

    I think the railings look wrong, in fact, I got the impression they were recycled and then I found:

    Our store designers are always looking for ways to bring a little magic to the coffeehouse experience. Our partnership with Walt Disney Parks & Resorts, an idea that was sparked by this MSI community back in 2008, has been a unique opportunity to do just that. Following the successful launch of stores in Disney California Adventure Park and the Walt Disney World Resort, we're thrilled to roll out two company owned locations at the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim, CA this winter, right in the heart of the Downtown Disney District.

    In addition to meeting our sustainability and LEED design goals, we will incorporate reused and recycled materials wherever possible to create locally relevant design. We know we have the opportunity to make that moment of connection over a cup of coffee a special one, and that will be especially true for all of the customers visiting these stores!

    http://blogs.starbucks.com/blogs/customer/archive/2013/08/15/next-stop-disneyland-resort.aspx

    And one of the commenters hopes that the Disney brand doesn't tarnish these Starbucks!

    I will be disappointed to see Disney characters on starbucks cups after seeing them on just about every little girls shirt, lunchbox, happy meal, etc... Please do not go this direction...this is not the Seattle company I have come to love.

    It seems to me that the new Starbucks is kinda designed by Starbucks, why else is the Book Rest so lavish and the Market House so blah?

  10. #70

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    Re: The New Market House...

    I should clarify something on my behalf. I'm not against putting a Starbucks inside the Market House...infact, I think it's a nifty idea. My only complaint (and a big one too) is that Disney did a horrible job with the theme of the new MH. When I saw it last night for the first time in person, I just shook my head and was sadden by the complete lack of Victorian theme it once had.

    When you go into the Starbucks location over at DCA, it's themed very well. I love the feel and look of it all. But somehow, it's like they used Starbuck management (instead of Disney) to over-see the renovations for the MH. Because whoever designed the new look had no clue what a Victorian theme should look like.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the new MH has absolutely no charm to it anymore. As pointed out on this thread from other MiceChatters, it's soulless and sterile. And honestly, it's such a shame! (sigh)


    So keep Starbucks inside there, that's fine. But I hope Disney can see what so many of us do and correct the problem. Come on, Disney, don't let us down!

  11. #71

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    It's not about me, it's just a fact that unrestricted artists and professionals have a far better understanding of what the public wants than the public themselves. Had Walt and his Imagineers listened to the public all those years by following trends, they wouldn't have garnered half their success. Even though the average joe may perceive this Starbucks to be of Disney quality, in reality they have no clue or ability to understand that the brand and implementation just isn't healthy for the long-term success of Disneyland. These same people who were fine with the introduction of McDonalds in the park are doing it yet again.
    Didn't they take out the McDonalds fry cart because of the bad publicity McDonald's got with serving unhealthy food?

  12. #72

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyFunGuy View Post
    But somehow, it's like they used Starbuck management (instead of Disney) to over-see the renovations for the MH. Because whoever designed the new look had no clue what a Victorian theme should look like.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, the new MH has absolutely no charm to it anymore. As pointed out on this thread from other MiceChatters, it's soulless and sterile. And honestly, it's such a shame! (sigh)
    I think Starbucks designers oversaw the work, I mean wood railings with pine cones on top? and modern little drop down ceilings with recessed lights?

    I'm not a coffee drinker, so I may be biased against Starbucks, but I've never seen a "beautiful or nostalgic Starbucks, I think they're kinda meant to be post-modern bitterness/industrialization, maybe that is why everybody always complains/jokes about another Starbucks opening up somewhere.

    It seems that WDI did the outside (which is fine, IMHO), and the window decorations (of which there are basically none inside the Market House, and the Book Rest. It's pretty striking, really, the attention to detail varies greatly.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 09-29-2013 at 07:36 AM.

  13. #73

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyFunGuy View Post

    When you go into the Starbucks location over at DCA, it's themed very well. I love the feel and look of it all.
    I like the Pig Cafe more than the new Market House, Pig Cafe has its moments, such as the bar stools and the outside looks nice, but it's kinda got this big un-themed waiting area/table area, there no sense of an intimate space, and while it looks nice, I could see something of that style in an airport or mall somewhere. Nice furnishing, but I don't look at it and say, "cool 1920's LA". The theming there looks like an afterthought, the purpose of selling food/drinks is of primary important, like a food court at a mall, not to make somebody feel that they are in some place special.

    Pig cafe gets really loud due to the fact that there are space/wall dividers put up, and possibly because the walls aren't lined with antiques (which is an uneven surface which would probably break up soundwaves).

    I was kinda disappointed with the Pig Cafe, the outside promises more than what you get on the inside, and I get the same vibe with the Market House . . .

    I'm thinking I've definitely seen those wood railings with pine cone finials on top the wood railings somewhere else, quite possibly at DLR, it is a very rustic theme, not a Victorian theme. Here's where the pine cones come from:

    http://www.prideofparis.com/#!__laur...ckergallery1=4

    I think Starbucks has primary creative control over the inside of their shops, as opposed to WDI. Obviously, WDI has done some great work with the Fantasy Faire and other recent stuff, no way WDI did the inside of the Market House. It's a small area, and gussing it up Victorian style/old-Market House style would not have been that expensive.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 09-29-2013 at 07:32 AM.

  14. #74

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Perhaps interestingly, there are some big differences between the Market House we got and the concept art, (New Disneyland Main Street Starbucks Concept Art).

    1. The drop down ceilings in the concept art had wood panels on their vertical surfaces, not wallpaper such as the drop-down ceilings in Denny's, a later invention.

    2. The ceiling was supposed to have an embossed print on it, it looks very plain, like regular paint plain.

    3. The railings were supposed to be more ornate, not these big clunky railings we have.

    4. There was supposed to be a lot of nick-nacks/shelves/cupboards, not just plain wallpaper.

    5. There is an embarassing wooden pole "holding up" a section of drop down ceiling that doesn't make sense.

    6. Ornamental woodwork that looks out of place and "recycled" from somewhere else.

  15. #75

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    Re: The New Market House...

    I've been to disneyland for 20 years and I have not once been in the market house to purchase coffee. For my family and I it was strictly a place to walk through to avoid parade and firework crowds. Now we will be sure to visit.

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