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  1. #91

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    Re: The New Market House...

    I'll say it again on this thread, the Blue Ribbon Bakery was perfect and my favorite themed building on Main St. It could also handle a half-hour line no problem. They should have just recreated that and moved on.
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  2. #92

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by JCSkipr79 View Post
    ^^ But said people are...ENCOURAGING TDA and TDO's bad decisions and some are even promoting these things and gush over them. Look at the new Walt Fake Mustache they're gonna start selling. There's actually "fans" who think it's "cute" to sell a fake piece of the founder of the Company that's dead.......
    Just because you don't think so, doesn't make it so. Both are valid opinions and feelings for their holders. You don't like it, that's fine. Others do, that is also fine. Both need to be respected and not called names or told that they aren't real fans. Period.

    Again with the ad hominem of double-quoting the word fans, as if they aren't good enough to be called fans just because you don't like how they do it. Fandom is a personal thing, between the fan and the object of their fandom. No one else has any right to tell anyone that they aren't good enough or doing it wrong. All that is important is that we all love Disney, and we should be able to do it together. Fandom is supposed to bring people together around a common love, not divide them.

    It's a fake mustache man... it's not like they exhumed Walt and are selling hairs from his actual mustache in little glass vials or something. Should all mustaches be banned because some dead person had them first? I can only imagine how sadistic and disgusting a person Tom Hanks must be for having the gall and sacrilegious nerve to grow out a Walt mustache and actually pretend to be him. FOR MONEY!

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  3. #93

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Telling people they shouldn't go to the parks because their views on the parks differ from your own is just wrong. Be those reasons because you aren't obsessed enough, or too obsessed. We all love Disney here. We all have our reasons for it. If you would like your views and reasons respected, it helps to respect the views and reasons of others. And if others aren't respecting your views and beliefs on the matter, then be the bigger person.

    This site is about sharing a love of Disney. There is no test to prove who loves it more or better. There is no right or wrong, just opinions. Opinions which flow from our own personal likes, distastes and life experiences and history with the parks and the company.

    So can we please, everyone, just cut the double quoted fan nonsense? Can we quit claiming we're a better fan that others because we "get" theme? Or because we aren't so uptight? Or any other of the many ad hominems used increasingly over the past years? Can we all just love Disney together?

    Walt built Disneyland for everyone. Young, old, young at heart, those into detail, those into history and placemaking, those who don't care about any of that and just want to have fun. There is no right or wrong way to Disney Fan. Be it studying out the historical significance of minutiae and woodworking techniques used, or proper knots or be it grabbing a cup of Starbucks, having fun with family and friends riding rides. Just don't try to tell others that your fandom is better than theirs. It isn't... it's just different.

    (not directed at anybody in particular, just in general thoughts)
    I did not tell anybody they should not go, just letting them know that MM has cheap AP's.
    We can all love Disney, but when Disney, in my eyes, is slipping, I speak up.
    Also, it goes both ways when others say to "Get over it" or "It's just some stairs" or "I don't care what it looks like all I care about is that I can get a Starbucks in the park now". That kind of thinking, IMO, is the slope that Disneyland is heading down - the slope that leads to not being the leader in themed environments.
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  4. #94

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    Re: The New Market House...

    It's clearly an emotional and contentious issue on both sides.

    IMHO, change can be good, as long as the old is replaced by something as good, or better. If they'd replaced the old Market House with a Starbucks that kept the old general store theme, or they'd recreated the Blue Ribbon Bakery, or they'd done something else that was fantastic, I'd be fine with it. The one in DCA looks fine. I'm disappointed with what they did here, though.

    I'd also argue that theming is integral to Disneyland. No, the average 7 year old in a Disney princess costume, or her parents, probably aren't going to stop and admire the Victorian decor. No, the theming can never be 100% authentic (if we wanted a "real" Victorian town we'd need child labor and segregation, and perhaps we can all agree that those bits of reality aren't needed).

    On the other hand, if Disney's purpose is to take people away from the everyday, and let them enter the world of fantasy, yesterday and tomorrow - and I know I just butchered that quote - the theming makes that happen. What guest wouldn't be fascinated by a chance to go back in time?
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  5. #95

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Just because you don't think so, doesn't make it so. Both are valid opinions and feelings for their holders. You don't like it, that's fine. Others do, that is also fine. Both need to be respected and not called names or told that they aren't real fans. Period.

    Again with the ad hominem of double-quoting the word fans, as if they aren't good enough to be called fans just because you don't like how they do it. Fandom is a personal thing, between the fan and the object of their fandom. No one else has any right to tell anyone that they aren't good enough or doing it wrong. All that is important is that we all love Disney, and we should be able to do it together. Fandom is supposed to bring people together around a common love, not divide them.

    It's a fake mustache man... it's not like they exhumed Walt and are selling hairs from his actual mustache in little glass vials or something. Should all mustaches be banned because some dead person had them first? I can only imagine how sadistic and disgusting a person Tom Hanks must be for having the gall and sacrilegious nerve to grow out a Walt mustache and actually pretend to be him. FOR MONEY!
    Anyone can say what they want and have an opinion, that doesn't mean we can't call a spade a spade in return when something illogical or ignorant is said. You don't encourage Disney to continue down a path that leads to bankruptcy or support a complete degradation of one of the most beloved places in the world and expect us to stay silent. I will continue calling out those who would either purposely or ignorantly do harm to Disneyland.

  6. #96

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    I did not tell anybody they should not go, just letting them know that MM has cheap AP's.
    We can all love Disney, but when Disney, in my eyes, is slipping, I speak up.
    Also, it goes both ways when others say to "Get over it" or "It's just some stairs" or "I don't care what it looks like all I care about is that I can get a Starbucks in the park now". That kind of thinking, IMO, is the slope that Disneyland is heading down - the slope that leads to not being the leader in themed environments.
    I get what you're trying to say but why would you promote another park just because they aren't visiting DL with a magnifying glass looking at every nook and cranny for what could possibly be wrong. Some people just want to go and escape the stress of everyday life and enjoy the park with their families and relax. My vacation wouldn't be ruined because the MH looks different; I would probably look at it...think to myself "huh, looks different than last time" and not think about again. My life is already plenty complex and stressful and insane to sit and critique every move DLR makes.

    I used to be that person, and after awhile going to DLR just wasn't fun anymore. I annoyed my friends with my prentious remarks like "oh, you see that plant...it looks like they moved it over a few feet" first it was met with eye rolls and a funny look, after awhile those same friends stopped inviting the "buzz-kill" who would do nothing but complain about how bad everything is. I am SO glad to say that scaling back the amount of times we visit a year has done HUGE things for me. I love DLR just as much as anyone else on this board...I loved it so much that I chose to stay away for fear of becoming too obsessed with everything they do. Now when we go it is as refreshing as it was when I was a kid. I got that same feeling back that I used to have. Trust me...I don't think Walt wanted the same people to visit his park day in and day out, he seemed more of the type that enjoyed the amount of different families that would visit and have fun...not those concerned with the fact that they chose a different color palette than they did last year to paint a building
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  7. #97

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post
    I get what you're trying to say but why would you promote another park just because they aren't visiting DL with a magnifying glass looking at every nook and cranny for what could possibly be wrong.
    If they don't care, why come in this thread in the first place with the intent to trivialize those of us who understand that theme is paramount to the park? Using statements like "none of my friends care about theme" why should you? How is that even logical in a Disneyland discussion? Of coarse people are going to say Six Flags is down the road because we realize that these ideas are what will ultimately turn Disneyland into a mediocre/common product and we want nothing to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by christianAdam View Post
    I used to be that person, and after awhile going to DLR just wasn't fun anymore. I annoyed my friends with my prentious remarks like "oh, you see that plant...it looks like they moved it over a few feet" first it was met with eye rolls and a funny look, after awhile those same friends stopped inviting the "buzz-kill" who would do nothing but complain about how bad everything is. I am SO glad to say that scaling back the amount of times we visit a year has done HUGE things for me. I love DLR just as much as anyone else on this board...I loved it so much that I chose to stay away for fear of becoming too obsessed with everything they do. Now when we go it is as refreshing as it was when I was a kid. I got that same feeling back that I used to have. Trust me...I don't think Walt wanted the same people to visit his park day in and day out, he seemed more of the type that enjoyed the amount of different families that would visit and have fun...not those concerned with the fact that they chose a different color palette than they did last year to paint a building
    That's your own fault for doing such a thing. Don't assume that everyone who debates the park is miserable or obsessed when they actually visit. Telling me that I shouldn't drill down into the details because I could potentially become a "buzz-kill" in front of my friends is not a valid reason to encourage people to stop defending Disneyland's integrity.

    Since you brought up Walt, let me set the record straight. The man was a detail nut and obsessed over everything in the park. That's why Disneyland became the success story it is today because of his vision and relentless attitude which desired nothing less than perfection.
    Last edited by Seawolf; 09-30-2013 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #98

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    The pursuit of perfection is what separates an average product from the extraordinary. Disneyland was once a place where going above and beyond was the norm, and was directly related to the success it has enjoyed all these years. If you think that providing average products or pandering to public trends are going to keep the bottom line growing, think again.

    Exactly. I expect extraordinary things from Disney. They set the bar, or used to. If I want "average" there are very many places I can get that and be mildly entertained. Disney used to be a leader and now it doesn't feel like they are anymore and that makes me sad.
    I pledge allegiance to the Earth, one planet, many gods, and to the universe in which she spins.

  9. #99

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Telling people they shouldn't go to the parks because their views on the parks differ from your own is just wrong. Be those reasons because you aren't obsessed enough, or too obsessed. We all love Disney here. We all have our reasons for it. If you would like your views and reasons respected, it helps to respect the views and reasons of others. And if others aren't respecting your views and beliefs on the matter, then be the bigger person.

    This site is about sharing a love of Disney. There is no test to prove who loves it more or better. There is no right or wrong, just opinions. Opinions which flow from our own personal likes, distastes and life experiences and history with the parks and the company.

    So can we please, everyone, just cut the double quoted fan nonsense? Can we quit claiming we're a better fan that others because we "get" theme? Or because we aren't so uptight? Or any other of the many ad hominems used increasingly over the past years? Can we all just love Disney together?

    Walt built Disneyland for everyone. Young, old, young at heart, those into detail, those into history and placemaking, those who don't care about any of that and just want to have fun. There is no right or wrong way to Disney Fan. Be it studying out the historical significance of minutiae and woodworking techniques used, or proper knots or be it grabbing a cup of Starbucks, having fun with family and friends riding rides. Just don't try to tell others that your fandom is better than theirs. It isn't... it's just different.

    (not directed at anybody in particular, just in general thoughts)
    YES!! YES!!!! For the love of chocolate and peanut butter yes!!!!


    This is one of those hot button issues that bring out a lot of heated emotion.... on BOTH sides. All through the thread there has been a LOT of people from both standing on their cyber soap boxes on top of the mountain beating their cyber chests and proclaiming that THEIR opinion is the only right and true one opinion.

    And they're not. They are opinions and no one opinion is right or better or more valid than anyone elses. Because they are just that... OPINIONS. You may not agree with them and they may not agree with you but both have just as much right as the other to hold the opinions that they do.

    Some people think its the dumbest, most ugly thing that Disney has done. They think its just another example of the decline of all that Walt held sacred. Thats cool, thats great!!! You can think that if thats what you really feel!

    Some people think that it turned out wonderful, they think its great that the park is showing progress and moving forward with new and different things for the visitors to see and to! Thats cool, thats great!!!! You can think that if thats why you really feel!

    But when we start attacking each other and disregarding and dismissing the other side because we feel that WE are the only ones who care about the history and sanctity of the park and when the moderating team becomes inundated with reports because people are not respecting both sides of the issue..... this thread gets dangerously close to being moved or closed.

    We all have to pick our battles. Not everyone is on the same side every time. I hated when they added characters to Small World. After I saw it... eh, it wasn't that bad. (Except the last room with Jessie and Woody *shudders*). I was on the fence with the Jolly Holiday Bakery, but it turned out nice. I was ready to get out the pitch forks and torches when they redid the Carnation Plaza.... and even though I have yet to see it in person, I still liked that the way is was before. Court of Angels? Pitch fork and torch time again. Market House? Eh... never went in it that much before, don't really have a problem with it now. The point is, not everything is always totally black and white even with Disney fans.

    Accept and respect that there are two sides. Just because YOU have a different opinion does NOT mean the other side has no validity or should be dismissed. Either way.




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  10. #100

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    Re: The New Market House...

    SeaWolf makes the best case/argument here... in my opinion...

  11. #101

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwingdolt View Post
    The many outweigh the few. The $ is mightier than some few nostalgites crying in their folders.

    so long as the lines and colors blend into the Main Street "land" and "story"...this place with thrive.

    not everyone enjoys Starbucks, but a great enough many do.
    I know my neigh and all of her friends were VERY excited to see it open... They didn't care about theming being accurate or perfect.
    not many do, or should.

    I think this is probably true. People who love Starbucks and think it is good coffee don't care much about what it looks like. They just want their daily SB fix!
    [Half awake] How many cups of sugar does it take to get to the moon?

  12. #102

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    If they don't care, why come in this thread in the first place with the intent to trivialize those of us who understand that theme is paramount to the park? Using statements like "none of my friends care about theme" why should you? How is that even logical in a Disneyland discussion? Of coarse people are going to say Six Flags is down the road because we realize that these ideas are what will ultimately turn Disneyland into a mediocre/common product and we want nothing to do with it.
    Don't get me wrong here dude. I love that Disney takes great care of their park (especially when you compare it to SFMM) I love how clean and amazingly fresh it's been able to stay since it first opened. But because someone may not see something that has changed as that big of a deal; to be told to go somewhere else is pretty hurtful. People love the parks and go for the experience and atmosphere but to question ones loyalty because they choose not to be as detail oriented as the next then that's lame. Yeah, Walt was obsessed with the details, that's great! He was allowed to be, it was HIS park. Not mine, it's not my job to point out every flaw. It's my job to have fun and enjoy DLR.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    That's your own fault for doing such a thing. Don't assume that everyone who debates the park is miserable or obsessed when they actually visit. Telling me that I shouldn't drill down into the details because I could potentially become a "buzz-kill" in front of my friends is not a valid reason to encourage people to stop defending Disneyland's integrity.

    Since you brought up Walt, let me set the record straight. The man was a detail nut and obsessed over everything in the park. That's why Disneyland became the success story it is today because of his vision and relentless attitude which desired nothing less than perfection.
    You're right, it was totally my fault, which is why I chose to stop going for awhile because I knew that I was becoming someone I didn't like and I was annoying myself.

    No man. Drill away. I was just giving an outlook about myself and why I stopped enjoying the parks and what I've done to change it and have more fun. I'm not here to debate, everyone has different views and opinions and none should be discarded and all should be respected.
    "If you were thinking, you wouldn't have thought that"





  13. #103

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    Re: The New Market House...

    MiceChat encourages discussions by folks on ever possible side of an issue. We encourage them to bring to their discussion, not only their facts, but their ideas, their hopes, their feelings, . . . their dreams, too! We are not a debate board, we are a discussion board.

    If you find a post that you don't agree with, you are welcome to counter points, but you must never, ever counter the person. In other words, you must keep your discussion points to those they expressed on the topic itself, and not to how they arrived at their views, or if in your opinion they are even entitled to have said views.

    This rule also means that the parts of their statements that are not entirely empirical in nature, (ideas, hopes, feelings and so on), you cannot prove them wrong or judge them as inappropriate, just because it doesn't fit the conclusions you arrived at. They are valid for that person, just as your's are for you.

    When you aim your remarks directly at the member's reasoning, credibility, or motives, you are directly ignoring our rules and the intent of our rules. When you call their thinking flawed, or imply that they couldn't possibly be a fan of the Mouse because of their positions, you are far afield of the rules here. When you tell them to stop coming to the parks, you are disrespecting the person in question and the site that allows you to participate here.

    As always, if you see a posting that breaks one of our rules, use the "report post" link at the bottom left of every post.
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  14. #104

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLovesGoofy View Post
    I think this is probably true. People who love Starbucks and think it is good coffee don't care much about what it looks like. They just want their daily SB fix!
    Why the assumption that people who enjoy Starbucks coffee are incapable of enjoying good theming? That is completely illogical and quite frankly, not true and borderline ad hominem.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  15. #105

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    Re: The New Market House...

    Quote Originally Posted by ducktalesfan5555 View Post
    I'm alright with the one in DCA, but a big NO on this one! The Court of Angels closing, then Avatarland in WDW, now more Starbucks in the parks... Stop it now! Stop destroying tradition Disney! If it ain't broke don't fix it!
    You forgot Star Wars Land instead of Tomorrowland.

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