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  1. #151

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Get rid of the monthly payments and the bottom two tiers of APs
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  2. #152

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwingdolt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Crazybirdman View Post
    you would just have to save the money for a year, and then buy a pass.
    It's the same thing.
    Exactly -- the cost is the same. Which is why eliminating the monthly payment plan won't affect any customer's pocketbook.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwingdolt View Post
    i don't get the Monthly Payment hate. weird
    It isn't a matter of "hate," it's a matter of numbers, and there's nothing weird about it: the introduction of the monthly payment plan resulted in a noticeably more overcrowded park. Eliminating it will unquestionably help reduce the after-school and after-work overcrowding.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darkwingdolt View Post
    It's a great program and smart for Disney to offer it.
    It's a great program for Disney management's short term bottom line, but not for the overall Disneyland product that they're selling. For Disneyland's future reputation, it's a slow-motion disaster that continually erodes the Disneyland experience by contributing to the overcrowding, which increasingly is being talked about by unhappy customers (particularly tourists who've paid the full day ticket price).

    As has been demonstrated in numerous threads by the math gurus on this forum, dropping AP monthly payments, eliminating the lower AP tiers, and adjusting the day-ticket price so that day tickets aren't subsidizing the AP program, wouldn't hurt Disney's bottom line at all, and would help control the currently out-of-control overcrowding issue -- which has been shown again and again to be primarily the result of Disney's over-marketed and out-of-control AP program.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-20-2013 at 08:05 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  3. #153

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Get rid of the monthly payments and the bottom two tiers of APs
    I'm a So. Cal APH and do the INTEREST FREE monthly payments.
    Last edited by moregumboplease; 10-21-2013 at 08:50 AM.

  4. #154

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Some of you keep saying that Disney could sustain itself without the APs. I don't see how, frankly.

    It's been said that there are a million APs. Many have the Deluxe or Premium passes, but let's assume for the sake of this exercise that everyone has the higher tier Southern California pass.

    At the renewal price, that's $350. At a million passholders, that is $350,000,000 of guaranteed - not speculated, but firm - income for Disneyland every year, whether the passholder uses the payment plan or not.

    If we assume that even 20% of those people have Deluxe passes, that figure rises to a guaranteed $480,000,000/year.

    Some passholders go every week; some go every month; some only use their pass for a few visits every year. Some spend money, some don't. I know that when I go to Disneyland, I usually don't get out of there without dropping $20 - $50, and I go once a month, unless I'm blocked out. So using my pattern - let's say, half a million passholders going once a month and spending $20 - $50, Disney's got another $120,000,000 - $300,000,000/year.

    Without the passholder plan, does anyone honestly think that day visitors are going to make up that balance? Really?

    Let's assume that without the APs/payment plan, half of those former passholders still want to visit Disney. What's more likely to happen is that they get disgruntled and upset and spend their dollars at another theme park, but let's say that half still want to visit Disney, but they only come once a year. Now Disney only has $46,000,000 - $68,500,000. They are probably going to be a lot more conscious of the money they spend inside the park because they have just dropped $92 - $137 on admission, as well, so Disney loses merch sales.

    Does anyone really think that without the APs, Disneyland can attract enough visitors to compensate for lost passholders? Enough to replace those millions? I don't. Disneyland and Anaheim are not destinations in the same way that WDW and Orlando are. The ticket price is enough to scare off locals who don't have APs, as well. I can't count the times I've heard friends and colleagues say "I'd love to visit Disney, but it's too expensive for me."

    Those who are saying that passholders are subsidized by the full-price tickets might want to look at it from the other way around. Without passholders would Disney lower ticket prices? You've got to be kidding me. Of course they wouldn't. You'd see the same day ticket prices, and you'd also probably see shorter park hours, days when the parks are closed and less improvements and special events. You'd see less special merch and pins, since they wouldn't have the passholders to come in and look for variety every month. The park would be a lot more boring.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  5. #155

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    nevermind.
    Last edited by moregumboplease; 11-18-2013 at 04:30 PM.

  6. #156

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    nevermind.
    Last edited by moregumboplease; 11-18-2013 at 04:30 PM.

  7. #157

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Exactly -- the cost is the same. Which is why eliminating the monthly payment plan won't affect any customer's pocketbook.
    Why hasn't Walmart eliminated the layaway plan? Because it helps those who don't have a savings plan, and it makes non-savers into consumers. You will be surprised at knowing how many people don't save their money. I'm not to judge whether this is smart (it isn't), but a Disney Annual Pass is still a BIG expense for a "want". People don't need to go to Disneyland, but they don't mind buying an AP if they can affordably go to Disneyland.

    I don't get why you insist on eliminating the monthly payments. The effect is to restrict demand, not increase it. It conflicts with your other argument that Disney bottomline won't be affected. If less people buy less APs, it means NOT only do you get less crowding, you get less revenue.

    It isn't a matter of "hate," it's a matter of numbers, and there's nothing weird about it: the introduction of the monthly payment plan resulted in a noticeably more overcrowded park. Eliminating it will unquestionably help reduce the after-school and after-work overcrowding.
    It will reduce less crowding and less appearance of "undesirables", but not eliminate them. So you're asking to fix a problem that won't be fixed.

    It's a great program for Disney management's short term bottom line, but not for the overall Disneyland product that they're selling. For Disneyland's future reputation, it's a slow-motion disaster that continually erodes the Disneyland experience by contributing to the overcrowding, which increasingly is being talked about by unhappy customers (particularly tourists who've paid the full day ticket price).

    As has been demonstrated in numerous threads by the math gurus on this forum, dropping AP monthly payments, eliminating the lower AP tiers, and adjusting the day-ticket price so that day tickets aren't subsidizing the AP program, wouldn't hurt Disney's bottom line at all, and would help control the currently out-of-control overcrowding issue -- which has been shown again and again to be primarily the result of Disney's over-marketed and out-of-control AP program.
    You acknowledge that they make money from the APs, but the overcrowding is a result and it seems like it is the main problem that doesn't have a solution, OR is there one?

    Add more attractions and park capacity.

    As for eliminating the lower tier APs, we are still left with a dilemma. The Deluxe AP is $499. Customers will balk at this price point. Disney will still need to offer a cheaper pass at $349 and call it the Standard AP. There is no way that Disney will leave money on the table without offering a solution.

  8. #158

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    I agree with Mr. Wiggins but it is not going to happen because the management needs a full park for the maximum number of days per year !

    The only thing that is going to solve this issue is rising interest rates. Once interest rates rise, Disney will look at the opportunity costs for that revenue and decide to axe the monthly payment plans. They can take their revenue and put it in a bond for more than they are getting from lending it to monthly pass payers.

    The other thing that would help to convince them to axe the monthly payments is if the delinquency accounts dramatically rises. Then the cost to administrate the collections would override their desire to keep the parks full.

    Anyone care to discuss the rate of delinquent accounts ? I'd bet it is around 1-3% now.

  9. #159

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Why hasn't Walmart eliminated the layaway plan? Because it helps those who don't have a savings plan, and it makes non-savers into consumers.
    Walmart doesn't maintain its layaway plan because it helps consumers, but because it helps Walmart. The notion that corporations like Walmart and Disney tout come-ons like monthly payment plans in order to "help those who don't have a savings plan" is a popular myth of our consumerist society. The reality is they do it to help their own bottom line. What it can do to consumers is anything but helpful:
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 11-18-2013 at 10:32 AM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  10. #160

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    The only thing that is going to solve this issue is rising interest rates. Once interest rates rise, Disney will look at the opportunity costs for that revenue and decide to axe the monthly payment plans. They can take their revenue and put it in a bond for more than they are getting from lending it to monthly pass payers.

    The other thing that would help to convince them to axe the monthly payments is if the delinquency accounts dramatically rises. Then the cost to administrate the collections would override their desire to keep the parks full.

    Anyone care to discuss the rate of delinquent accounts ? I'd bet it is around 1-3% now.
    The AP monthly plan isn't a loan to the customer. You got that backwards. The customer is giving to Disney a monthly subscription plan. Only when Disney gets the money upfront can they claim interest from a customer. However, Disney benefits if the customer skips a trip in one or two months and goes later or erratically or especially when they go when the park is not busy.

    With rising interest rates, customers will think the monthly plan will be much more suitable to their situation. Why give to Disney $499 upfront if they are better able to capitalize on the interest rates by keeping their money in the bank's savings account.

    Rising interest rates is a lagging indictor of where the economy is going. It means the economy is improving and low interest rates is a thing of the past. Disney will not restrict monthly payments on the potential of rising deliquency when deliquency is more likely to be less of a problem.

    And I highly doubt Disney will seek payment via collections. Collections benefit the collectors, not Disney. Theme park admissions is not a tangible product. What Disney will do is freeze the account. No more park admission for non-payment. Thus Disney does not lose anymore to the deliquent account holder. The AP account holder can resume their account and pay the remainder of the balance later. I'm sure Disney do will what it can to restart the account if they done nothing else wrong. I have no idea if this is Disney's current practices. I just think Disney going to collections is a bad idea for Disney and unnecessary.

  11. #161

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Now as to the topic at hand - It's pretty clear that in this day and age that the Annual Passholders are the driving force for DLR attendance, and without the passholders the day ticket rates would be even higher.

    Personally I have now utilized the monthly plan TWICE and instead of cheaping out with the lower tier passes we amortized our payments to get the high end passes and are much happier. When it gets crowded we either take off or go visit the less used areas of the parks and it's a win-win. Sure we may not get to ride all the e-tickets in one day, but then again we can come back the next day or next week or whenever.

    The program is going into it's 5th year now (we got our first monthly payment plan the first month it was available in January 2009) and it seems to be working well for Disney. Too bad it pisses some of you off, but then again no one is ever 100% happy

  12. #162

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildwill View Post
    Personally I have now utilized the monthly plan TWICE and instead of cheaping out with the lower tier passes we amortized our payments to get the high end passes and are much happier. When it gets crowded we either take off or go visit the less used areas of the parks and it's a win-win. Sure we may not get to ride all the e-tickets in one day, but then again we can come back the next day or next week or whenever.

    The program is going into it's 5th year now (we got our first monthly payment plan the first month it was available in January 2009) and it seems to be working well for Disney. Too bad it pisses some of you off, but then again no one is ever 100% happy
    I clink a glass with you, amigo. Have seen so many complaints about the payment plans that I simply dedicate that day's trip to that poster, with a glad heart.

    Every time my son, wife and I stroll thru those turnstiles, for every 15% discount on a great meal (and yes, the food is getting that good in some places), I think of that poor soul who just can't stand it and wish they could know the joy that my family and I have. It's easier to have than one might think.
    "The old man's gonna knock on the sky. Listen to the sound."

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  13. #163

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    nevermind.

  14. #164

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ortizmo2000 View Post
    I clink a glass with you, amigo. Have seen so many complaints about the payment plans that I simply dedicate that day's trip to that poster, with a glad heart.

    Every time my son, wife and I stroll thru those turnstiles, for every 15% discount on a great meal (and yes, the food is getting that good in some places), I think of that poor soul who just can't stand it and wish they could know the joy that my family and I have. It's easier to have than one might think.
    I decided to start a spreadsheet beginning with our first trip as APs this year - and I'm keeping track of how much we spend at the parks and how much discount we're getting. So far, three trips to the parks, spent a total of over $280, and earned about $55 in discounts. We spend more because we get the discount, pretty simple economics. If we didn't have the discount and the option to pay our APs via monthly payment they wouldn't be getting much out of us at all. But because we get the discounts we go ahead and stay on property for food and buy merch that we wouldn't otherwise because it's cheaper.

    Heck I plan on buying a two-pack of the Build A Droids at Star Traders EVERY SINGLE VISIT for the entire year. If I didn't get 20% off I'd be one and done.

  15. #165

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    See?
    No need to hate the player or the game.
    "The old man's gonna knock on the sky. Listen to the sound."

    AP'er since 2004. Yup.....I'm one of THEM.

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