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  1. #181

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Is monthly payments the new stroller topic?



    But seriously folks, the main topic is OVERCROWDING and the only solution is of course to spread disease and reduce the population. If there are fewer people around than the parks would be less crowded.

    Best advice is to skip your flu shot this year. In a few years the wait times for Space Mountain should be down to around 15-25 minutes.

  2. #182

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    The person who bought 2 cans for $4 really needs it. I certainly paid for items that I really need regardless if there is a promotion, but the promotion can drive me to buy more or to be introduced to the item in the first place.

    I probably will never buy THIS brand item if the OTHER brand item is cheaper. So I have incentive to try THIS item and I am tempted to buy more.

    This is the same with Disney APs. I will never go more than a 2 or 3 day ticket, but if in one particular year where I "felt" like going more because I have this Disney fix that must be satisfied, I'll buy the AP for one year. Otherwise, I won't. The AP is in itself a promotion, although it is quite an expensive promotion. And no, I won't buy 2 separate one day tickets unless its an exceptional situation.
    That's all well and good, but this whole conversation was in response to you claiming that everyone pays the same amount to get in. You've just conceded that that isn't true in relation to the grocery store example.

  3. #183

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    That's all well and good, but this whole conversation was in response to you claiming that everyone pays the same amount to get in. You've just conceded that that isn't true in relation to the grocery store example.
    Not quite. Disney's ticket pricing is designed to get you to spend more as the minimum requirement. My argument wasn't to say people pay the same. People pay for whatever level of access they desire. The per day breakdown is irrelevant. This was what you cared about.

    In general, tourists pay less to get into the park. See my previous post. The APs start at a higher price point. Again, the per day breakdown is irrelevant.

  4. #184

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    I think APs subsidize themselves. They rarely stay all day, ride a few rides and go home. They also DO spend money. Just watch and see how many APs are flashed in front of you when paying for anything. Plus that $5 a day guest may only utilize $25 worth of park experience while you full price guest utilize the full value of your ticket so not nearly the huge injustice it may seem to be. Its why wait times rarely go much past an hour. An AP simply wont get in that line. Plus considering WDW and TDL's wait times I think the DLR needs to get a lot worse before my sympathies go out to the tourist.

    I mean, do you tourists really envy or resent the guy who payed $5-10 to get in plus gas, snacks and possibly parking to ride 2 rides and catch a parade? I sure as hell wouldn't.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  5. #185

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    I would definitely be considered a tourist, since I travel from Chicago to visit Disneyland. I certainly don't care what the other guy pays. I'm just grateful that at his time in my life, I can vacation at Disneyland. It is fun for me, and everyone deserves a little more fun in their life. We all have our limits as to what we can afford to spend to entertain ourselves. I guess the gripe is that monthly payments make it affordable for more people to entertain themselves at Disneyland, and therefore the parks are more crowded.

    I'm not one to analyze the finer points behind Disney's motives. All I know is that at this time in my life, Disneyland is affordable to me. I don't begrudge it being affordable to the other guests.
    My Next WDW Vacation is Aug 18, 2014 - Aug 23, 2014
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  6. #186

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Disney wants each body in the park to spend as much as possible (revenue per guest)

    Going to the park MORE does not increase your disposable income - so the amount you spend will not scale up linearly with how much you visit.

    Going to the park MORE reduces the uniqueness of visiting the park. You aren't going to bust your budget buying momentos of your trip... if it's something you do frequently. And even if you do buy said momentos - you aren't going to do it every time you go. Additionally, when you are there more frequently, you are less likely to give into paying higher prices because you know the alternatives. So the regular is less inclined to blow money on memories.. and will be more thrifty in what they do spend on.

    These things all point to a frequent visitor spending less per visit than a less frequent visitor.

    This is the basic idea why a 'tourist' is more vauable per head than an AP.

    Sure the AP gets upsold up front... to drive immediate revenue... but each visit is not as valuable to Disney as the tourist. If you go 5 times a year to break even on your AP.. you are less money to Disney at the gate vs 5 individuals.. and less revenue because you don't have 5x your disposable income.

    The point of an upsell is to increase the size of your transaction - but when you offer 'unlimited' as the lure to get the customer to buy in.. you stand to fall behind in the long run.

    Either way.. an AP visiting 5 times is going to be less revenue than 5 people visiting one time.

    Now what about the people that say "Im their most loyal type of customer... I buy everything disney!" - Ok, if you are that person, than Disney lost money by offering you the AP because you most likely have paid a non-discounted price. They discounted where they didn't need to.

    Monthly payments only makes this problem worse by making the upsell more accessible to the customer.. even if they don't offer a lot of future revenue potential. The promise of guaranteed income sounds great.. but its like being average instead of being great.

    The core of this argument is not how much an AP spends in aggregate... it's that per guest admission.. the AP is a less value for the park.

    Disney loves it because instead of having to lure the tourist... they get easy admissions.

    But it's like hogging when you're out at the bars. Sure you can take a hog home every week.. and claim you never go home alone.. but you're actually behind the guy who takes home the hottie.
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  7. #187

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    The AP is already ahead of the tourist by at least $100 before they entered the parks. Whatever the guest spends in the park will have to account for the cost of merchandise or food, thus the pure profits is more from admissions than food/merchandise.

    If you want more guest spending in the parks, the tourist is certainly more valuable, but so what? Nothing that the tourist does will affect what the local does. These are two different revenue streams. Why must you pursue one for the other? Disney doesn't distinguish. Guests are guests. Only the marketing is tailored.

    But it's like hogging when you're out at the bars. Sure you can take a hog home every week.. and claim you never go home alone.. but you're actually behind the guy who takes home the hottie.
    Where to start?

    Disneyland is like the unfaithful guy who keeps a jealous wife and some hot action on the side. And they all live in the same house.

  8. #188

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    If you want more guest spending in the parks, the tourist is certainly more valuable, but so what? Nothing that the tourist does will affect what the local does.
    Because if it costs me X dollars to support 40,000 people in a park... I those 40,000 people to be the most profitable people possible. The parks do not have unlimited capacity, and it is not free to support guests in the park.

    The AP visiting pattern of less people per car, for shorter times, at more times per day all are negatives as well.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  9. #189

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Because if it costs me X dollars to support 40,000 people in a park... I those 40,000 people to be the most profitable people possible. The parks do not have unlimited capacity, and it is not free to support guests in the park.

    The AP visiting pattern of less people per car, for shorter times, at more times per day all are negatives as well.
    Why would you think it is the tourist supporting the local? It could easily be the local supporting the tourist. Or possibly each guest is self-supporting.

    The negatives of guest traffic patterns will be mitigated. All problems will be solved. How is it any different to ensure the employees, who go to the parks every single day that they are working, and suddenly guests who might come and go as they please becomes a problem for Disney as if Disney can't handle such realities of traffic and crowds.

    Whenever I visit the Mickey and Friends parking lot, I have very little actual interaction with the parking attendants. These so-called problems are really just pet peeves.

  10. #190

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    You know, if everyone in this thread was so smart, they'd be working for Disney behind the scenes determining what the right formula really is.

    FACT IS though, we are just fans and we want the best experience possible, that's going to be DIFFERENT from each and every guest, just as some guest like parades and shows, and others like rides. Some even only like the character interaction. Whatever floats your boat.

    Disney clearly has some smart people running the show that know what they're doing. Yes they make mistakes as we all do, but I guarantee you the folks that work there think they're doing the best they can for the maximum positive guest experience.

    The tourist revenue and the AP revenue are two completely different things and while they're both revenue they're dramatically divergent when it comes to spending patterns. Yes, I don't spend a dime to walk in the gates when I walk in, but I've already given Disney $150 that month for my 3 passes. When I go, and I go about 2x a month, I spend cash on merch and food that frankly many tourists would pass up. I spend MORE because I get a discount too. No one is subsidizing my visit as I'm still spending good money with Disney.

    This is getting redundant. THose who are in favor of the monthly AP program aren't going to be swayed and those who don't like it aren't going to change their minds. Clearly Disney isn't getting rid of it any time soon, so why tilt at windmills? Isn't there something else to complain about?

  11. #191

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Disney doesn't need to remove payment plans and lower tier passes, they need to expand the parks and infrastructure further to spread out crowds more efficiently. By asking Disney to reduce crowds, you are asking them to reduce their profit which will never happen.

  12. #192

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seawolf View Post
    Disney doesn't need to remove payment plans and lower tier passes, they need to expand the parks and infrastructure further to spread out crowds more efficiently. By asking Disney to reduce crowds, you are asking them to reduce their profit which will never happen.
    Agreed.

    A while back there was extended conversation over ride per capita shrinkage as the close two/open one philosophy played out and the daily capacity shrank along with it.

    A HUGE amount of the crowding could be solved simply by going back to the level of available attractions that used to exist - get 'em off the streets and on rides, you have won a major part of the fight.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  13. #193

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildwill View Post

    This is getting redundant. THose who are in favor of the monthly AP program aren't going to be swayed and those who don't like it aren't going to change their minds. Clearly Disney isn't getting rid of it any time soon, so why tilt at windmills? Isn't there something else to complain about?
    You are free to start a different thread if this one bores you so
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  14. #194

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    We need to remember that there is an ever increasing membership here at MiceChat, and because of that, the same topics get brought up over and over again. I can easily overlook topics/threads that are introduced by newer members, if I am not interested. More than not, I read the thread instead, and I usually see a new perspective.
    My Next WDW Vacation is Aug 18, 2014 - Aug 23, 2014
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  15. #195

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Disney wants each body in the park to spend as much as possible (revenue per guest)

    Going to the park MORE does not increase your disposable income - so the amount you spend will not scale up linearly with how much you visit.

    Going to the park MORE reduces the uniqueness of visiting the park. You aren't going to bust your budget buying momentos of your trip... if it's something you do frequently. And even if you do buy said momentos - you aren't going to do it every time you go. Additionally, when you are there more frequently, you are less likely to give into paying higher prices because you know the alternatives. So the regular is less inclined to blow money on memories.. and will be more thrifty in what they do spend on.

    These things all point to a frequent visitor spending less per visit than a less frequent visitor.

    This is the basic idea why a 'tourist' is more vauable per head than an AP.

    Sure the AP gets upsold up front... to drive immediate revenue... but each visit is not as valuable to Disney as the tourist. If you go 5 times a year to break even on your AP.. you are less money to Disney at the gate vs 5 individuals.. and less revenue because you don't have 5x your disposable income.

    The point of an upsell is to increase the size of your transaction - but when you offer 'unlimited' as the lure to get the customer to buy in.. you stand to fall behind in the long run.

    Either way.. an AP visiting 5 times is going to be less revenue than 5 people visiting one time.

    Now what about the people that say "Im their most loyal type of customer... I buy everything disney!" - Ok, if you are that person, than Disney lost money by offering you the AP because you most likely have paid a non-discounted price. They discounted where they didn't need to.

    Monthly payments only makes this problem worse by making the upsell more accessible to the customer.. even if they don't offer a lot of future revenue potential. The promise of guaranteed income sounds great.. but its like being average instead of being great.

    The core of this argument is not how much an AP spends in aggregate... it's that per guest admission.. the AP is a less value for the park.

    Disney loves it because instead of having to lure the tourist... they get easy admissions.

    But it's like hogging when you're out at the bars. Sure you can take a hog home every week.. and claim you never go home alone.. but you're actually behind the guy who takes home the hottie.
    Flynn's posts in this thread and Mackster's in the other thread nail it. The more the park is filled with customers getting into Disneyland multiple times a year for pennies on the dollar, the more it crowds out the once-a-year, full-price, hotel-booked tourists. From overpacked parking facilities to sardine-can streets and SRO bathrooms, it has become more than obvious over the years what the AP program is doing to the Disneyland experience, particularly since the advent of the monthly payment plan. For the beancounters, certainly profits are up. But it has to be driving them nuts knowing how much higher the profits could be if they hadn't turned the DLR into a drive-up-and-hang-out venue for a million locals.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 11-20-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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