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  1. #331

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    ^there was no malice intended in the original post, so no need to get defensive. On the flip side, might I ask what your opinion is on a family from Nebraska who can only afford one trip to Disneyland in their entire lives, and go to find the place packed with APs who go several times a year? I dont think its about entitlement, but about sharing the park experience. Being able to have an AP using the monthly payment plan is really rather lucky compared to many visitors' experiences in my opinion, who very well may be in similar financial situations yet have the disadvantage of location added to that.

  2. #332

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    ^there was no malice intended in the original post, so no need to get defensive. On the flip side, might I ask what your opinion is on a family from Nebraska who can only afford one trip to Disneyland in their entire lives, and go to find the place packed with APs who go several times a year? I dont think its about entitlement, but about sharing the park experience. Being able to have an AP using the monthly payment plan is really rather lucky compared to many visitors' experiences in my opinion, who very well may be in similar financial situations yet have the disadvantage of location added to that.
    Yep, this, ditto, hear, hear, etc.
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  3. #333

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christina Coleman View Post
    No, That's the only way I could afford to go to DL so often. Disney isnt only for the "privileged" us lower paid citizens need fun vacations too! Honestly I think that's sort of a rude question. To almost assume you have more rights because you can afford to put a few thousand down right this second, that its an entitlement issue? No, disney is meant for everyone. It's also easier on my wallet every month so I can still pay all my bills, (rent, phone, utlities, gas, car payment, necessities etc) and still have fun at the end of the month to go to personal things. Just my opinion.
    Couldn't you do the saving ahead of time (x dollars a month) and buy them? The total price doesn't change either way.

    As an out of State (and country) visitor, my price to visit is exponentially higher and I don't get a payment plan. Even on a University Student budget I make it work.

  4. #334

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    My guess is that the monthly payment plan was a decision by Disney to make it easier for people visiting the park on a particular day to swallow upgading their ticket to an annual pass. They'd probably reached an equilibrium point with people paying full price and this was a way to coax new people who otherwise wouldn't do it.

    People are likely to spend more if it means spending less right now. Even though buying in bulk for stuff you absolutely will use saves you money in the long run, not everyone is prepared to spend that much right now. Instead, people don't buy in bulk and spend more in the long run, but less in the short term.

    It also could be that Disney wanted to reach a certain number of people upgrading their tickets to APs and the way to do that was to soften the initial blow while at the Resort.

    Either way, if it weren't profitable for Disney, they wouldn't do it. The secret is that this allows Disney to continue raising prices to another equilibrium point.

  5. #335

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    ^there was no malice intended in the original post, so no need to get defensive. On the flip side, might I ask what your opinion is on a family from Nebraska who can only afford one trip to Disneyland in their entire lives, and go to find the place packed with APs who go several times a year? I dont think its about entitlement, but about sharing the park experience. Being able to have an AP using the monthly payment plan is really rather lucky compared to many visitors' experiences in my opinion, who very well may be in similar financial situations yet have the disadvantage of location added to that.
    Didn't mean to come across as defensive, I just think it's a loaded question. Not a lot of people have the luxury of being able to do these things OR the luxury to live in california and I understand that. I just think I took it as people want the park only to themselves because they have the money in full, and that wouldn't seem fair to others who don't have a large income but still want to have a fun time. I work too hard and see too little of my paychecks as it it. Payment plans are my friend. It IS limited in such a way that CA ZIP codes are the only ones to get these passes, and really, honestly, how many AP holders are in the park on a given day around off holiday season? Next trip is around 20ish days and we love going this time because waits only get to 35 mins MAX even for rides like Radiator. And as for your question, I can see where you're coming from but again, how many AP holders are really in the parks at the same time? It cant be more than a few hundred and that's pushin' it, to me anyway.

  6. #336

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    These debates always seem to come back to the question of who is more entitled to have the park to themselves/be in the park - when you say that the family from out of state has a lesser experience because of all the locals there, it is pretty much implying that the locals have less of a right to be there. And I would posit that anyone who pays the admission costs, however they are paid, in the form that Disney accepts, has equal right to be there.

    It also does neglect the fact that at most of the highest peak vacation periods, such as Christmas and the summer, most of the passes get blocked out - so the high crowds at those times aren't the fault of locals with SoCal passes anyway.

  7. #337

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    To me, the argument is about how Disney chooses to manage their park. They have chosen to pack in as many people as they possibly can. They could easily choose to run the park in a manner that does not get as crowded as it does get by raising prices to the point where they make the same total revenue and the crowds subside.

    of course, this absolutely means that less people will experience the park.

    On the other hand, if Disney were to invest a larger part of their revenue into expanding the Anaheim resort, the resort would accomodate more people comfortably. Just like a hotel can add another wing to provide more rooms.

    So the point is that everything is the way Disney wants it to be until the market responds in some way, for example, by tapering off AP renewals/purchases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    These debates always seem to come back to the question of who is more entitled to have the park to themselves/be in the park - when you say that the family from out of state has a lesser experience because of all the locals there, it is pretty much implying that the locals have less of a right to be there. And I would posit that anyone who pays the admission costs, however they are paid, in the form that Disney accepts, has equal right to be there.

    It also does neglect the fact that at most of the highest peak vacation periods, such as Christmas and the summer, most of the passes get blocked out - so the high crowds at those times aren't the fault of locals with SoCal passes anyway.

  8. #338

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christina Coleman View Post
    And as for your question, I can see where you're coming from but again, how many AP holders are really in the parks at the same time? It cant be more than a few hundred and that's pushin' it, to me anyway.
    Assuming there are 1,000,000 AP'ers (MiceAge's estimate), and they go an average of 12 times a year (my estimate), that is 12 million admissions per year, or about 33,000 APer's admitted per day.
    That's spread over two parks.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  9. #339

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Disney has raised their prices and the parks are as crowded as ever. Companies are run with the expectation of growth. Keeping revenue the same with lower attendance won't fly either. It makes the investors worry. SeaWorld Orlando did this. It actually worked, but investors are concerned about this approach.

    The accomodation of people more comfortably is such an subjective benchmark that you can't strive for it. It might make some people happy to see a less crowded park, but if there are less APs to make that happen, it will be clear that this subjective observation will be made by those who aren't complaining in the first place. Its the APs that are complaining and they are gladly asking to be priced out so they won't go. Actually, if crowding bothers you, just don't go.

    If Disney expands the resort by adding more attractions like Carsland, good luck with trying to accomodate more guest comfortably. Carsland made the park even more attractive, thus increasing attendance. Then you're asking for even higher price increases to dampen that enthusiam.

    A combination of stagnation (no new attractions) and price increases will dampen attendance. This has been proven many times. Despite Disney's regular prices increases that are above inflation levels and are quite outrageous, perhaps they should double or triple that. That's just a wonderful idea. Are we asking for the pre-Carsland days? DCA was uncrowded and Disneyland had all the action. It is more balanced today.

  10. #340

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Disney has raised their prices and the parks are as crowded as ever..
    They raised their price, yes but then they enabled interest free monthly payments which is actually a form of reducing the price. And do not forget that pricing/demand relationship is elastic which means that the price can move a certain amount without affecting demand. If they raised their prices enough, fundamental economics predict that demand will move!



    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Its the APs that are complaining and they are gladly asking to be priced out so they won't go. Actually, if crowding bothers you, just don't go
    .
    AP guests such as myself first purchased the AP to go in the "off season" and to go when the second park was being built. Disneyland was undergoing an uncomfortable transformation with all the construction happening and so we enjoyed the park with less attendance. Given that baseline experience the current attendance level is noticeable and unpleasant.
    Regarding your suggestion to not go... that is precisely what our family will be doing when our APs expire this year.


    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    If Disney expands the resort by adding more attractions like Carsland, good luck with trying to accomodate more guest comfortably. Carsland made the park even more attractive, thus increasing attendance. Then you're asking for even higher price increases to dampen that enthusiam.

    A combination of stagnation (no new attractions) and price increases will dampen attendance. This has been proven many times. Despite Disney's regular prices increases that are above inflation levels and are quite outrageous, perhaps they should double or triple that. That's just a wonderful idea. Are we asking for the pre-Carsland days? DCA was uncrowded and Disneyland had all the action. It is more balanced today.

    It seems to me that you are arguing against basic economic principals that have been widely accepted. If you raise prices, demand will taper. People will choose other methods for entertainment and other entertainment offerings will step in to tap into that demand and make a profit.

  11. #341

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    The news tells us that the Federal Reserve is continuing to taper off their bond buying. This fact is evidence that interest rates will be going up soon. Probably interest rates are going up for 5 to 10 years!

    I would be very surprised if Disney's offer of interest free monthly payments lasts through higher interest rates. They will either make people put their AP costs on charge cards to finance the ever increasing AP or they will begin to charge interest themselves.


    Just a guess.

  12. #342

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    They raised their price, yes but then they enabled interest free monthly payments which is actually a form of reducing the price. And do not forget that pricing/demand relationship is elastic which means that the price can move a certain amount without affecting demand. If they raised their prices enough, fundamental economics predict that demand will move!
    No, the monthly payment does not lower the prices. It is an artificial construct, an illusion. Inflation is barely there. Raised prices mean demand should lower, but that hasn't happened so Disney is priced correctly.

    AP guests such as myself first purchased the AP to go in the "off season" and to go when the second park was being built. Disneyland was undergoing an uncomfortable transformation with all the construction happening and so we enjoyed the park with less attendance. Given that baseline experience the current attendance level is noticeable and unpleasant.
    Regarding your suggestion to not go... that is precisely what our family will be doing when our APs expire this year.
    Going in the off-season is precisely what you should do. Thus, if you buy your AP, you get a second chance of entering the off-season. And not renew afterwards.

    It seems to me that you are arguing against basic economic principals that have been widely accepted. If you raise prices, demand will taper. People will choose other methods for entertainment and other entertainment offerings will step in to tap into that demand and make a profit.
    I'm not arguing against economic principles. I'm responding to the post above that states prices should increase to lower attendance. A basic price increase hasn't lowered demand because it is in the range where most customers can afford it. Disney must increase prices 2x or 3x to dampen demand.

    People will choose alternative entertaiment regardless and it doesn't matter anyways since Disney stands above. I'm not advocating this. I'm responding to the post above.

  13. #343

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft View Post
    The news tells us that the Federal Reserve is continuing to taper off their bond buying. This fact is evidence that interest rates will be going up soon. Probably interest rates are going up for 5 to 10 years!

    I would be very surprised if Disney's offer of interest free monthly payments lasts through higher interest rates. They will either make people put their AP costs on charge cards to finance the ever increasing AP or they will begin to charge interest themselves.

    Just a guess.
    In response to interest rates increase, Disney will just increase prices and still offer the monthly plan. The montly payment plan isn't a interest free loan. It is a subscription service.

  14. #344

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    No, the monthly payment does not lower the prices. It is an artificial construct, an illusion. Inflation is barely there. Raised prices mean demand should lower, but that hasn't happened so Disney is priced correctly.
    Do yourself a favor and google "demand elasticity"

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Going in the off-season is precisely what you should do. Thus, if you buy your AP, you get a second chance of entering the off-season. And not renew afterwards.
    There is no more "off season".

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I'm not arguing against economic principles. I'm responding to the post above that states prices should increase to lower attendance. A basic price increase hasn't lowered demand because it is in the range where most customers can afford it. Disney must increase prices 2x or 3x to dampen demand.
    The bold in your quote is exactly what I have been saying. Thank you.

    If Disney were to eliminate monthly payments, AP sales would decline. This is america and few people consider the total price of anything. Most people only look at the monthly payment. Sad but true.

  15. #345

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    Re: Should Disney get rid of monthly payments?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    In response to interest rates increase, Disney will just increase prices and still offer the monthly plan. The montly payment plan isn't a interest free loan. It is a subscription service.
    Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A guest who used to pay the entire AP cost up front now makes monthly payments is financing their cost at 0%.

    Disney pays the "opportunity cost" of that revenue (which with higher interest rates, is substantial, BTW). Quite a large percentage of the AP holders switched to monthly payments. Believe me when I tell you that if Disney could make 3 or 4% (or more) on that money, they would end the monthly payment program so fast it would make your head spin.

    You may want to google "opportunity cost"
    Last edited by ravencroft; 01-23-2014 at 10:32 AM.

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