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  1. #136

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    As much as I like Star Wars, all of this news makes me want to cry. If they want a whole land dedicated to it, maybe they should scrap Monstropolis and put it there instead. I know it might seem disjointed with Star Tours still in Tommorowland but Tommorowland was meant to be the future for us, not fictional characters. I was hoping they would use the people mover track and turn it into the people mover from the Axiom on Wall-E. Maybe put the rockets back on top of the loading pad where they used to be. I didn't think they were going to do a complete Star Wars takeover of the area, maybe just take over the EO building and make that the Cantina or something and that was it. Maybe repaint the whole land, update the cars in Autotopia. Either that or I agree with making a Tron themed land instead ot incorporate that into Tommorowland instead, it makes more sense.

  2. #137

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffin999 View Post
    Tommorowland was meant to be the future for us, not fictional characters. .
    Can someone take this quote, plant it on a large freeway bilboard .. for drivers to see it, including Disney execs making their way to Anaheim from Burbank?

    I'm increasingly getting sick to my stomach that they are possibly on this "railroad" with "one track" .. no "deviations" ... "one destination" ... and won't consider what makes better sense for Tomorrowland.
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    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  3. #138

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    God this would be so easy to do. Just turn the Starcade second level into the new People Mover station, as there should be enough room and the People Mover track runs right along that upstairs area. The only foreseeable problem I can think of is actually cooking/serving the food in a timely matter, as that building isn't equipped with that kind of kitchen, unless they outfit Tomorrowland Terrace to be able to serve that level of higher-end food.

    It would require a major refurbishment/repurposing, and would probably involve:



    1. Enclose the second level in glass, add air conditioning/heating. Put in a stairwell/elevator from the grounfloor, and up to the top level. Add detailed theming.
    2. Enclose the top level, perhaps with a futuristic glass dome or some other Tomorrowland theming. I wonder if it would be possible to build a gigantic acrylic dome and perhaps run fiber optics through it so that you could simulate stars inside of it during the night.
    3. Build a ground floor, or second floor, kitchen area. Maybe have a grill where they cook up the food right there. If they use the whole ground floor for the kitchen (that would be one big kitchen), they could use a dumbwaiter to transport the food upstairs, maybe they could even design a high-tech dumbwaiter system so that the food is delivered directly to your table.
    4. I think the underground portion of the rocket rods queue is still there, perhaps it could be used to stock the kitchen.
    5. Facade upgrade. If were talking Star Wars’ Coruscant, then a facade would need to be constructed above the buildings in Tomorrowland, to hide the unfinished roofs, and to give guests something to look at, i.e. a beautiful futuristic city-scape at night and during the day time.
    6. New ride on People Mover track. I think it could easily be done, if it went a slower pace. They could even add some fake ride vehicles with aliens circling the restaurant. At any rate, it would entice guests to eat as said restaurant, and you’d have two great options for scenery during lunch/dinner: new People Mover ride, or the more open top deck.
    7. Star Wars themed? Not saying that Star Wars is coming to Tomorrowland at all, but a Cloud City, or much more likely, a Corusant theme would work very well here.

    8. Not enough space for a counter-service restaurant, it would have to be reservation/table service, but they could use it as a meet and greet. If it absolutely had to be counter service, then use the underground queue from Rocket Rods to send food from a kitchen near where the Tomorrowland Terrace is, and turn the bottom part into the counters, and then let guests go upstairs with their food, though perhaps this wouldn’t be as efficient as the current Tomorrowland Terrace, but might open up other possibilities in this area.

  4. #139

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    I am absolutely excited to see both Innoventions and Autopia reduced to rubble. Make it so.
    Madge, obsessive Disney freak!
    How everyone sounds singing "Let It Go"

  5. #140

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by second blue teacup View Post
    I am absolutely excited to see both Innoventions and Autopia reduced to rubble. Make it so.
    Combining the two attractions to make one though is just plain stupid.

    From the capacity issues Disneyland is facing with 21st Century crowds .. and having a net loss of 1 attraction is not smart WDI thinking!

    Do people realize the Innoventions building is the same width and circumference as Space Mountain? They fit a whole 3+ minute roller coaster in the dark in the same building footprint as Innoventions. What's WDI excuse for not being able to make Innoventions itself into one E Ticket extravaganza within itself? And if Autopia is destined to evolve into another type of ride, then let that ride take over that space alone - And it's a pretty good sizable space. Just the size of Autopia's queue is enormous itself to be the site of another queue location.
    MY SIGNATURE:
    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  6. #141

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Calling Innoventions an attraction is laughable... I'm sure the "hidden" bathroom in Frontierland has a better riders-per-hour than Innoventions has in a day.

    I am absolutely okay with ditching an ancient attraction riding on the fumes of nostalgia and a non-attraction being razed by a fleet of bulldozers.

    And if Nemo is caught in the crossfire, all the better.

  7. #142

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffin999 View Post
    As much as I like Star Wars, all of this news makes me want to cry. If they want a whole land dedicated to it, maybe they should scrap Monstropolis and put it there instead. I know it might seem disjointed with Star Tours still in Tommorowland but Tommorowland was meant to be the future for us, not fictional characters. I was hoping they would use the people mover track and turn it into the people mover from the Axiom on Wall-E. Maybe put the rockets back on top of the loading pad where they used to be. I didn't think they were going to do a complete Star Wars takeover of the area, maybe just take over the EO building and make that the Cantina or something and that was it. Maybe repaint the whole land, update the cars in Autotopia. Either that or I agree with making a Tron themed land instead to incorporate that into Tommorowland instead, it makes more sense.
    I'm hoping you were being sarcastic about having Star Wars in DCA's Hollywood, but given the theming mess of that land, maybe you were being serious.

    I wouldn't mind if one or two more Star Wars attractions came into Tomorrowland but I wouldn't want a complete takeover. I would love for Wall-E to be in Tomorrowland. I think if anything, it's the only Disney property that would actually fit into the original intended theming of that land without question.
    Toonaspie: I have Asperger's. I like cartoons. Toonaspie!

  8. #143

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Combining the two attractions to make one though is just plain stupid.

    From the capacity issues Disneyland is facing with 21st Century crowds .. and having a net loss of 1 attraction is not smart WDI thinking!

    Do people realize the Innoventions building is the same width and circumference as Space Mountain? They fit a whole 3+ minute roller coaster in the dark in the same building footprint as Innoventions. What's WDI excuse for not being able to make Innoventions itself into one E Ticket extravaganza within itself? And if Autopia is destined to evolve into another type of ride, then let that ride take over that space alone - And it's a pretty good sizable space. Just the size of Autopia's queue is enormous itself to be the site of another queue location.
    I'm not happy about this plan either, but I don't think it's fair that you keep harping on this idea of one attraction replacing two. The article claimed that there would be new walkthroughs, shopping and dining also going into the Ewok Village area. Honestly, I think most of this plan is going to happen and don't know why anyone wouldn't think so.

    This is modern Disney we're talking about, it has been clear for years that all this group of management cares about is milking franchises for everything that they're worth. They obviously don't care about Walt's original vision for the park one bit. I have a feeling Tomorrowland will just be gone completely soon and it will just become Star Wars Land. So all this worry about inconsistency of theme won't be a problem. The only problem is for us people who want a TL, but Disney assumes most of us will come see what they did anyway and they're probably right. It would be easy enough to call Nemo part of FL and do a minor rework of Buzz and Space Mountain and you have Star Wars Land. From a business perspective, this makes a lot of sense. Just sucks that it fundamentally destroys a major aspect of Walt's original vision for the park.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  9. #144

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    I'm hoping you were being sarcastic about having Star Wars in DCA's Hollywood, but given the theming mess of that land, maybe you were being serious.

    I wouldn't mind if one or two more Star Wars attractions came into Tomorrowland but I wouldn't want a complete takeover. I would love for Wall-E to be in Tomorrowland. I think if anything, it's the only Disney property that would actually fit into the original intended theming of that land without question.
    A lot of people would disagree with you about Wall-E. It's a very dystopian vision of the future and doesn't really fit the original intent of TL very well with the exception of some of its technology. I would probably be ok with it personally, it could be handled properly and work. But I know some people wouldn't really say it fits the original intention of the land perfectly without question. Plus, like I said above, it will probably just be Star Wars Land soon enough anyway. If it doesn't open that way, the remaining older things will eventually be replaced with Star Wars stuff too.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    ...This is modern Disney we're talking about, it has been clear for years that all this group of management cares about is milking franchises for everything that they're worth. They obviously don't care about Walt's original vision for the park one bit. I have a feeling Tomorrowland will just be gone completely soon and it will just become Star Wars Land. So all this worry about inconsistency of theme won't be a problem. The only problem is for us people who want a TL, but Disney assumes most of us will come see what they did anyway and they're probably right. It would be easy enough to call Nemo part of FL and do a minor rework of Buzz and Space Mountain and you have Star Wars Land. From a business perspective, this makes a lot of sense. Just sucks that it fundamentally destroys a major aspect of Walt's original vision for the park.
    Bingo Bongo*.

    *One must never miss an opportunity to promote a brand.



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    - Neil Gabler


  11. #146

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    From a business perspective, this makes a lot of sense. Just sucks that it fundamentally destroys a major aspect of Walt's original vision for the park.
    I think it's safe to say that Walt's original vision for Tomorrowland was a pretty epic failure and had been since the beginning. If you accept that Walt's original vision of Tomorrowland was to show a vision of the future, "with predictions of constructive things to come" then you have to try to reconcile the fact that Walt turned his back on that as soon as he put the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea exhibit in. In the battle between Walt's original vision, and making Tomorrowland fun, fun won almost every single time.

    Walt wanted Tomorrowland to be his chance to change the world, to solve poverty and end wars, but instead it got model airplanes, movie sets, spinning rockers and flying saucers.

    Truthfully I see adding Star Wars to Tomorrowland as the continuation of Walt's original solution for Tomorrowland: "You know what the people want and you build it for them.” Even when that means compromising your original goal for something fun.
    Last edited by MrLiver; 10-11-2013 at 08:12 PM.

  12. #147

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Truthfully I see adding Star Wars to Tomorrowland as the continuation of Walt's original solution for Tomorrowland: "You know what the people want and you build it for them.” Even when that means compromising your original goal for something fun.
    "You know what the people want and you build it for them" is as far from Walt Disney's operating philosophy as the proverbial hawk from the moon. Walt worked, fought and risked to give people what his vision told him they'd enjoy, not "what they wanted."

    If Walt had given people "what they wanted," Snow White would never have been made, Disneyland would never have been built, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Walt's philosophy for Disneyland was built on innovation, imagination, originality, showmanship, personal vision and risk-taking. Today's Disney Corporation adding Star Wars to Tomorrowland is about acquisition, derivation, maximizing return on investment, and the low-risk marketing of pre-proven franchise brands to selected consumer demographics. The two philosophies aren't even on the same planet.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-11-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  13. #148

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    "You know what the people want and you build it for them" was as far from Walt Disney's operating philosophy as the proverbial hawk from the moon. Walt worked, fought and risked to give people what his vision told them they'd enjoy, not "what they wanted."
    So Walt was wrong when he said it?

    There's an argument to be made that Walt gave people what they wanted before they wanted it, but when the people didn't want it, nothing Walt could have done or said would convince them otherwise. Remember that Circus that Walt spent a fortune for in Fantasyland? Didn't work out (and it was hardly innovative or original).

    pquote]Walt's philosophy for Disneyland was built on innovation, imagination, originality, showmanship and risk-taking. Today's Disney Corporation adding Star Wars to Tomorrowland is about derivation, duplication, maximizing return on investment, and the low-risk marketing of pre-proven franchise brands to selected consumer demographics. The two philosophies aren't even on the same planet.[/QUOTE]

    For duplication see: Astro Jets vs Dumbo
    For maximizing return on investment see: Kasier Aluminum, Dutch Boy, Crane, Monsanto
    For low-risk marketing of pre-proven franchises see: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea exhibit and the Art Coner

    All shining examples of Walt Disney's Tomorrowland.

  14. #149

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Combining the two attractions to make one though is just plain stupid.

    From the capacity issues Disneyland is facing with 21st Century crowds .. and having a net loss of 1 attraction is not smart WDI thinking!

    Do people realize the Innoventions building is the same width and circumference as Space Mountain? They fit a whole 3+ minute roller coaster in the dark in the same building footprint as Innoventions. What's WDI excuse for not being able to make Innoventions itself into one E Ticket extravaganza within itself? And if Autopia is destined to evolve into another type of ride, then let that ride take over that space alone - And it's a pretty good sizable space. Just the size of Autopia's queue is enormous itself to be the site of another queue location.
    It has to do with operational budget. It can never get too high. Closing two attractions replaces the operation, maintenance, staffing, etc... money for two attractions with one. Even if the operations budgets of the one attraction is high, it will hopefully be cumulatively less than the two it replaced. So it's profit generating.

    There are indications (I think MiceAge even wrote about it lately) that with DCA doing so well, Disneyland doesn't need the increased capacity as much as it formerly did. To me, I would use this opportunity to build smaller, more intimate attractions - like walkthrough's and two-seater dark rides. Big E-tickets follow the old adage, Mo' money Mo' problems. They require such a huge monetary investment that executive meddling squeezes all the life out of them. It has to have huge ride vehicles to cycle through huge numbers. There has to be a gift shop at the end. They have to be based on a predictable franchise. Small witty touches are edited out in favor of mass appeal.

    I like my attractions like I like my cinema - auteur-ish, creative, indie.
    Last edited by choco choco; 10-12-2013 at 08:57 AM.

  15. #150

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    Re: Micechat Update: The new GAC, More Details Star Wars,

    Quote Originally Posted by choco choco View Post

    There are indications (I think MiceAge even wrote about it lately) that with DCA doing so well, Disneyland doesn't need the increased capacity as much as it formerly did. To me, I would use this opportunity to build smaller, more intimate attractions - like walkthrough's and two-seater dark rides. Big E-tickets follow the old adage, Mo' money Mo' problems.
    Technically, Disneyland's attendance dropped 1%, to right around 16 million, but this is counted as "first click", while DCA attendance spiked. So, Disneyland has more guests, they just head over to DCA first. For the third quarter than ended June 29th, 2013, DLR had record attendance . . . now that word about Carsland is out, and it is very positive, I'm thinking this holiday period will see Disneyland hit capacity earlier than before.

    Disneyland/DLR makes a lot of money during the holidays because, surprise, surprise, that is why people are buying stuff, and to have to close the parks then, or to have the parks super crowded, doesn't exactly work in Disney's favor.

    I think that expansion in Disneyland is in order as the demand is certainly there. In terms of an expansion, I'm thinking a new land (not removing entire sections of the park), such as a Frontierland expansion, Fantasyland expansion, or even a New Orleans Square expansion which adds a headliner attraction, a couple D tickets, and more restaurants/shops.

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