View Poll Results: Where should Star Wars be included at DLR

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  • Right away, in Tomorrowland, it needs it!

    24 21.24%
  • Save it all for the future Third Park

    47 41.59%
  • We can have different Star Wars attractions at Disneyland AND in the Third Park

    23 20.35%
  • No more Star Wars in Disneyland Park

    14 12.39%
  • Save it for Walt Disney World and save Marvel for the West Coast

    5 4.42%
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  1. #31

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Just because Star Wars was a huge hit in theaters does not mean it fits in with 1930's Hollywood. With that logic, you could put virtually any movie you want into the land. Consequently, that would make it an incoherently themed land.
    Between Muppetvision, Monsters, the rotating dance party, the very modern shows in Hyperion, the lack of any coherency between "at Hollywood the place" vs. "at a studio in Hollywood", and the lack of any period referentials when off the street in most shops and the animation exhibit, I think they've already accomplished the "incoherent theme" part.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  2. #32

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Between Muppetvision, Monsters, the rotating dance party, the very modern shows in Hyperion, the lack of any coherency between "at Hollywood the place" vs. "at a studio in Hollywood", and the lack of any period referentials when off the street in most shops and the animation exhibit, I think they've already accomplished the "incoherent theme" part.
    Mistakes of the past should not justify mistakes in the future.




  3. #33

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Mistakes of the past should not justify mistakes in the future.
    But what if the mistake is trying to make a "Hollywood" themed area? What if the solution is to jettison that mistake and replace it with more coherently and consistently themed areas around Pixar and other properties?

    A lot of brainpower is being spent on topics like this trying to make major additions fit the theme that is already there - kinda like insisting that Carsland should have hewed closer to the Bountiful Valley Farm theme. They botched the CA Hollywood theme extensively in the initial build, and it's debatable whether a '30s Hollywood theme would differ from that in any appreciable way that wouldn't require enough retheming, razing and replacement to justify simply starting over. Leave ToT, maybe even route a new fully immersive themed corridor through the Animation building and build a sustainable plaza along the lines of Buena Vista's hub there. Then you can take the mishmash "Hollywood" themed areas and do something more consistent.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  4. #34

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    But what if the mistake is trying to make a "Hollywood" themed area? What if the solution is to jettison that mistake and replace it with more coherently and consistently themed areas around Pixar and other properties?

    A lot of brainpower is being spent on topics like this trying to make major additions fit the theme that is already there - kinda like insisting that Carsland should have hewed closer to the Bountiful Valley Farm theme. They botched the CA Hollywood theme extensively in the initial build, and it's debatable whether a '30s Hollywood theme would differ from that in any appreciable way that wouldn't require enough retheming, razing and replacement to justify simply starting over. Leave ToT, maybe even route a new fully immersive themed corridor through the Animation building and build a sustainable plaza along the lines of Buena Vista's hub there. Then you can take the mishmash "Hollywood" themed areas and do something more consistent.
    Then if you get rid of the Hollywoodland theme and just put in a Star Wars Land, that interrupts the overall California theme that is trying to be reestablished with new additions like Buena Vista Street (20's LA), Cars Land (Route 66). Imo, DCA should not be a dumping ground for random movie franchises.




  5. #35

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    Then if you get rid of the Hollywoodland theme and just put in a Star Wars Land, that interrupts the overall California theme that is trying to be reestablished with new additions like Buena Vista Street (20's LA), Cars Land (Route 66). Imo, DCA should not be a dumping ground for random movie franchises.
    I am increasingly of the opinion that the California theme is the biggest remaining anchor (in 'dragging' sense) to the park - Carsland is only vaguely CA themed (66 stopped many other places and the geography featured is VERY Southwestern/AZ), and trying to fit the rest of the pieces in place under a "California" theme results in either a not very good theme or yet another billion plus rebuild.

    I really wish they'd just throw in the "overarching theme" angle and opt for Disneyland's approach. Disneyland has no real, overarching theme unless you want to get meta about it. There's no direct story that connects Pirates to Space Mountain to Small World to Pooh beyond "they're part of themed areas within the boundary of the overall park". DCA would likely be a much better park if that were the ongoing philosophy.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  6. #36

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I am increasingly of the opinion that the California theme is the biggest remaining anchor (in 'dragging' sense) to the park - Carsland is only vaguely CA themed (66 stopped many other places and the geography featured is VERY Southwestern/AZ), and trying to fit the rest of the pieces in place under a "California" theme results in either a not very good theme or yet another billion plus rebuild.

    I really wish they'd just throw in the "overarching theme" angle and opt for Disneyland's approach. Disneyland has no real, overarching theme unless you want to get meta about it. There's no direct story that connects Pirates to Space Mountain to Small World to Pooh beyond "they're part of themed areas within the boundary of the overall park". DCA would likely be a much better park if that were the ongoing philosophy.
    The theme for Disneyland is indicated on the park plaque, exploring a world of "yesterday, tomorrow, and fantasy," so it is good that Walt took a broad approach to Disneyland's theme. But with DCA, we are limited to just California which is quite problematic. If the park had a name change and a new vision, then I could see a broader approach to theming being viable.




  7. #37

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Between Muppetvision, Monsters, the rotating dance party, the very modern shows in Hyperion, the lack of any coherency between "at Hollywood the place" vs. "at a studio in Hollywood", and the lack of any period referentials when off the street in most shops and the animation exhibit, I think they've already accomplished the "incoherent theme" part.
    True but this isn't an argument for making it worse.

  8. #38

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    True but this isn't an argument for making it worse.
    I'm not sure that surrendering the "California" park theme would be worse. It'd save the somewhat embarrassing claim that Carsland is a California themed area (those red, red rocks are a VERY strong placemaking element - it's a very defined band through AZ, UT, CO etc. that's not particularly associated with CA). Heck, tie in the Bug's Land, up the budget to stupid levels and replace the Hyperion with Monsters and wall it all together so it doesn't show from ToT and you'd have a credible "Pixar Land" without the need to keep it all under one given IP.

    There are a lot of options - but keeping "California" as the park theme is not currently being done and likely would be too restrictive to complete a compelling park without seriously stretching theme badly.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  9. #39

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    It belongs in fantasy land.... its fantasy. A long time ago in a galaxy far away... Its NOT tomorrow land.

  10. #40

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'm not sure that surrendering the "California" park theme would be worse. It'd save the somewhat embarrassing claim that Carsland is a California themed area (those red, red rocks are a VERY strong placemaking element - it's a very defined band through AZ, UT, CO etc. that's not particularly associated with CA). Heck, tie in the Bug's Land, up the budget to stupid levels and replace the Hyperion with Monsters and wall it all together so it doesn't show from ToT and you'd have a credible "Pixar Land" without the need to keep it all under one given IP.

    There are a lot of options - but keeping "California" as the park theme is not currently being done and likely would be too restrictive to complete a compelling park without seriously stretching theme badly.
    This is nonsense. Why did they spend so much money improving on the California theme if their plan was to eliminate it? The park changed its theme in the sense of looking at California as a idealized concept rather then a real place. The importance of car culture and Route 66 to California history, its tie to the end of the road, which just so happened to end in Santa Monica at the pier all make Cars Land a perfect fit for the new vision for DCA. On the other hand, Monstropolis doesn't do anything to do any of those things.
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  11. #41

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigThunder View Post
    I'm really glad that I was able to experience Tomorrowland '67. Also the Tomorrowland of the '70s, '80s and early '90s. I will always be nostalgic for "my" Tomorrowland that existed in those days. The Peoplemover, ATIS, Circlevision, Skyway, Carousel of Progress/America Sings, original Subs, Rocket Jets up where they belong... But you know what? Those days are not coming back. Ever. Disney has moved on. The world has moved on. As my old animation teacher once so eloquently put it, "Walt's dead. He have to do what we can without him."

    The future has turned out to be a very slippery moving target that even the talented minds at WDI cannot get a consistent handle on. And change is accelerating, making it even more difficult if not impossible. A science fiction based land makes a lot more sense now, today, for an entertainment company that happens to own the most profitable and popular science fiction franchise of all time. They would be absolute fools not to use it, and use it right away - no waiting for a hypothetical third gate. Disneyland is open now, has the infrastructure now, needs the rides and added capacity these attractions will create now.

    I loved the Tomorrowland of the past. It was great. It is gone. I look forward to enjoying Star Wars Land with my kids for many years to come. I say build it. The vast majority of people will love it.
    This is the most business-sensible post I've seen in here, and let's not forget that this is truly a business now and no longer Walt's dream. I too grew up with the Tomorrowland of the 70s/80s and have the utmost fondness for what once was. I also don't think it's possible to build a new Tomorrowland that can stay as relevant as long as the old one did without spending tons of money every few years. As someone else pointed out, they don't even do a good job of keeping Innoventions current. That doesn't bode well for a theme that would now require more frequent updates and money than the old one did.

    That said, the choices in front of them are:


    • Star Wars theme
    • Full reboot into alternate theme
    • Status quo; do things piecemeal


    From a business perspective, the third option is sadly legitimate. It's not like park attendance is hurting; they can continue to make healthy profits without spending a huge amount of money.

    The Star Wars option represents a large investment but one that would be stupidly easy for them to market. Talk about instant interest and a packed new land on opening day. If management has any interest in a real Tomorrowland makeover, this is a very safe bet.

    The full reboot into an alternate theme, whatever it might be, would still generate a lot of buzz and boost attendance, but is not the guaranteed marketing success that Star Wars would be. This would be the riskier option.

    My $.02 which is probably worth $.0002... I'd rather have an alternate theme which has nothing to do with the movies. But I've been in the corporate world too long to know the Star Wars option is looking very attractive inside the board room.

  12. #42

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    [QUOTE=CaliforniaAdventurer;1057034012

    So I don't see why it would be impractical to put Star Tours in a show building in the third park and free up Tomorrowland for a futuristic theme.[/QUOTE]

    I'm totally for this. Keep all the Star Wars stuff together, and put it ALL in a huge new land in the third park. It not only makes sense to keep all the attractions from the same IP together, but it also opens up more room at Tomorrowland for something new, fun, and hopefully original. And for some reason, I also think it would be cool years from now to be at the 3rd gate and say, "this ride used to be at Disneyland... I remember how cool it was when it first came out int he 80s and even better when they revamped it in 2011...now it's here."

  13. #43

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    Look, as much as it sucks, I accept that Tomorrowland is probably not ever going to be truly "futuristic" again. If they can't afford /aren't willing to keep Innoventions current, keeping a whole land futuristic is never going to happen. They recognized that problem and fixed it when they built Discoveryland in DL Paris. Instead of creating an idea for a real future that our children or grandchildren might one day experience, they created the future that people like Jules Verne and Leonardo da Vinci envisioned, the one that never did happen. The theme of Discoveryland is "The Future That Never Was And Always Will Be." So let's do that same idea with Disneyland. Take the same concept of building a future that was envisioned but never happened, only make it different from Discoveryland in Paris. Instead of Da Vinci, make it more like George Jetson. Make it white and blue, with sleek, curved lines and robot servants. Heck, the freeway that the cars in the Jetsons used looks exactly like the People Mover track. Now, don't misuderstand me, I'm not saying I want an actual Jetson's theme, just that I want that kind of look. I'm sure a lot of Mice Age fans have made it out to The Encounter restaurant at LAX since it was designed by Disney Imagineers. How cool does that restaurant look? And the elevator with the freaky 50's sci fi music is awesome. Imagine something like that in Tomorrowland instead of Redd Rockett's Pizza Port. Give us a vision of the future that never happened, and then you don't have the problem of trying to keep it current. Disney already solved this problem back in 1992. Bring it to Anaheim already. Do Star Wars land right, and save it for a 3rd park. Otherwise, you're going to end up with the worst of both worlds. Disney fans will hate what you've done to Tomorrowland, and Star Wars fans won't be happy either because you won't be able to do it right with the contraints of the existing land and buildings.
    EXCELLENT points Big D! And I'm a big fan of the 1950's idea of the future a la Jetsons and the mid-century modern concept of futuristic styles. I'd personally love to have Tomorrowland themed like that.

  14. #44

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    Quote Originally Posted by rwalterk View Post
    This is the most business-sensible post I've seen in here, and let's not forget that this is truly a business now and no longer Walt's dream.... I've been in the corporate world too long to know the Star Wars option is looking very attractive inside the board room.
    You make some very good observations, and I have a couple of things to add.

    Disney just imagineered a Tomorrowland for Hong Kong, they are soon opening up another in Shanghai. They have one in Orlando and Discoveryland in Paris.

    So we're not just talking about Disneyland's Tomorrowland in Anaheim. We're talking about the vision for all these Tomorrowlands plus Epcot in the future.

    Plus we know Disney's spending fortunes to acquire the land and make the capital improvements around the resort to facilitate a third park at the Toy Story Lot.

    So someone needs to think about where Disney wants to be 20 years from now with all of this real estate themed to the future and make some important decisions now on where they plan to do what.

    Disney needs to seriously consider how they are going to keep not just Tomorrowland at Disneyland fresh but in the

  15. #45

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    Re: STAR WARS: In Disneyland's Tomorrowland, or save it for the Third Park?

    To me this feels like something you'd find at Disney World. I know that the Star Wars franchise is popular especially with the three new movies coming out, but I feel like a year after those movies are release less people will go to that park.

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