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  1. #61

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    The lack of original attractions doesn't bother me much. But we're talking about a park that's going to have THREE count 'em THREE lands based on a specific Pixar film/series. To me that feels creatively stale. Considering the massive amount of properties that Disney created (let alone bought) you'd think they would have loads upon loads of properties they could explore for theme park attractions.

    Disney just wants its parks to all be like Islands of Adventure, which itself really has no theme other than having it's lands themed to a particular franchise. This wouldn't be so bad except Disney parks are built with already a specific theme in mind. But now in the post Potter-land era, they've become too hyper-focused on shoe-horning only a certain number of their properties (even among their Pixar and princess films) into these parks regardless of whether or not they fit into the theme of the park they're in.

    There's no creative challenge for the Imagineers when they're told "this film made a lot of money, make a land out of it" because they can just watch the movie or get the concept art from the movie.

  2. #62

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    No, you are not the only one.

    Disney went through an awful lot of trouble reinforcing the "California" theme by creating Buena Vista Street, and keeping the "California" part of the name in the title of the park. And reinforcing the formally named Hollywood Back Pictures Lot to "Hollywoodland". With a Red Car running down the street, some minor embellishes .. and some rumored ones coming in the future .. like turning the Hyperion into a fully enclosed theater - all nicely complimented with the 30s/40s Hollywood Tower of Terror, built 9 years prior.

    All of a sudden .. they are turning their back on what they just got through completing ... with another toon Pixar addition ... that has absolutely nothing to do .. with the 30s/40s Hollywood .. that they seemed were trying to reinforce with "DCA 2.0"..

    They are going back and forth with DCA's intended sub theme, like a yo-yo.

    Turning it more into a muddled, confused mix .. of fantasy Pixar toons .... and old LA/old Hollywood.

    Once I saw Buena Vista street in person ... I was convinced Disney was going to continue with that direction .. whenever they were going to deal with the north end of Hollywoodland. One nice consistent theme ... with the hope of an original ride idea going with the theme of the area.

    No!

    They are more interested in exploiting another Pixar Toon franchise .. and makes no difference to them ..whether it works with CALIFORNIA Adventure .. or not.
    Well said and I also feel they are taking a step back. I'm hoping this is scrapped, but the more I hear about it the more I think it's going to happen.

    What's worse, if this does happen, they will likely start this project rather than address other parts of HL. Including the theater(s), facades to match the theme, which at this point isn't likely, Hyperion lobby, Animation Studio upgrades, GRR upgrade, merging Condor Flats to Grizzly Park. I could be wrong but I'm basing this on what I see.

  3. #63

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    There's no creative challenge for the Imagineers when they're told "this film made a lot of money, make a land out of it" because they can just watch the movie or get the concept art from the movie.
    This. Even worse is what Disney Corp's insistance on pushing brand after brand, year after year, and always for the cheapest possible price, does to its imagineering talent pool. When Michael Eisner mandated that "Disneyland is all about turning movies into rides," he set in motion the devolution of WDI. Lazy marketeering concepts like Monstropolis send a strong message to the top imagineering talents that truly innovative ideas are not wanted -- and tells the top creatives in the upcoming generation that they need not apply. Over time, the best people end up working elsewhere -- particularly for Disney's competition.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-15-2013 at 03:36 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  4. #64

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Was CARSLAND done at the " cheapest possible price"?
    Man I don't think I've ever seen so much Disney bashing. Seems like it might be better off to become a lover of Disney history and maybe a collector of all things Disney past since there is such despising of Disney in its current and future form. I think Dizney rightly wants to increase its bottom line by pleasing the largest number of people it can with various additions and then is able to expand with new parks and attractions based on increased revenue. Sometimes we have to accept that we are just out of step with what the vast majority is interested in with the humility of not just assuming we are just so much smarter than the " ignorant masses."
    Basically most people on here are suggesting that Disney just ignore the unsurpassed success of CARSLAND and Potter, using popular IP's and using them for an entire land, and go with what you like because you prefer the way things USED TO BE done.

  5. #65

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLRDAD View Post
    Was CARSLAND done at the " cheapest possible price"?
    It absolutely would have been, had it not been for John battling the corporate beancounters at every step of the process as they tried to gut the budget. He spent an enormous amount of political capital fighting for Carsland, which was his baby for many more reasons -- personal reasons -- than simply the fact that it was based on a Pixar film.

    Without a heavy player of John's status and stature willing to shed his political blood, sweat and capital to protect a project, you'll get the meh of Little Mermaid. And the sad fact is that, as with Mermaid, there'll be no protector for Monstropolis.


    Quote Originally Posted by DLRDAD View Post
    Man I don't think I've ever seen so much Disney bashing.
    Then you weren't reading Usenet during the Al Lutz era. The criticism of Disney on this forum and others is well earned by the cheap, shortsighted, narrow-vision, risk-averse and creatively lazy decisions of its corporate brain trust.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-15-2013 at 03:36 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  6. #66

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLRDAD View Post
    Was CARSLAND done at the " cheapest possible price"?
    Man I don't think I've ever seen so much Disney bashing. Seems like it might be better off to become a lover of Disney history and maybe a collector of all things Disney past since there is such despising of Disney in its current and future form. I think Dizney rightly wants to increase its bottom line by pleasing the largest number of people it can with various additions and then is able to expand with new parks and attractions based on increased revenue. Sometimes we have to accept that we are just out of step with what the vast majority is interested in with the humility of not just assuming we are just so much smarter than the " ignorant masses."
    Basically most people on here are suggesting that Disney just ignore the unsurpassed success of CARSLAND and Potter, using popular IP's and using them for an entire land, and go with what you like because you prefer the way things USED TO BE done.
    If I may make a suggestion - Please read up on the history of designing the original 5 themed lands. How Adventureland, Frontierland, Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, and Main Street ... were all designed to encompass a wide "SCOPE" - And how they've become a benchmark in designing theme parks, and individual lands .. since then.

    Will help you understand why some of us are upset how Disney of today would ever consider turning their back on the better design of a land, to a monotonous adventure containing only one story angle.

    Turning a section once a flat parking lot to create Carsland is not so bad. But now rumors suggest of taking one of those original 5 lands, that's been there since 1955 .. to something with a more limited scope. I don't mean to get over-dramatic, but it's a blasphemous idea.
    Last edited by Tomorrowland_1967; 10-15-2013 at 03:50 PM.
    MY SIGNATURE:
    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  7. #67

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    It absolutely would have been, had it not been for John battling the corporate beancounters at every step of the process as they tried to gut the budget. He spent an enormous amount of political capital fighting for Carsland, which was his baby for many more reasons -- personal reasons -- than simply the fact that it was based on a Pixar film.

    Without a heavy player of John's status and stature willing to shed his political blood, sweat and capital to protect a project, you'll get the meh of Little Mermaid. And the sad fact is that, as with Mermaid, there'll be no protector for Monstropolis.\
    Lasseter's influence on the Nemo Sub Ride and Carsland pretty much removed him from potential significant leadership roles. Once Disney management realized that Lasseter's passion was expensive, they appeared to limit his participation in projects. I haven't heard his name involved in recent projects though he has occasionally provided limited creative input.

    Cameron, on the other hand, still appears to wield a lot of power. We'll have to see how that turns out with Avatarland. Fortunately for him, Disney paid huge money for the Avatar rights and may be willing to go over budget to protect that investment. They are under the assumption that they have a potential franchise at the level of Pirates.

  8. #68

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Proof please, of above assertion. Cameron is involved with an AK theme park attraction. What possible other power could he have with Disney. Disney has nothing to do with the film franchise. Disney, and Eiger in particular are over the moon thrilled with how CARSLAND has turned around DCA and transformed the dynamic of the DLR. So much so that they are already willing to make another huge investment into the resort. If Lassiter was chiefly responsible for CARSLAND, I doubt if he would have power stripped because of being in charge of the biggest success in Anaheim in the last 20 years. That doesn't make sense in any way.

  9. #69

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLRDAD View Post
    That doesn't make sense in any way.
    Yet it's exactly the way the Company works. Internally, Disney is purely a political animal. John kicks beancounter butt to get his way, he makes internal enemies. John's work is a financial hit, he makes even more internal enemies. His power isn't stripped, just... redirected.

    You have to remember that Disney Parks is run by Eisner's money men: chief financial officers, strategic planners, marketers and cadres of sharp pencil boys. That doesn't make them evil, but it does make their sensibilities and priorities the philosophical antithesis of "the creatives" -- those who once ran the Company and who are now wrists for hire. Even successful and talented wrists like John. It is the Eisner brigade's vision that calls the shots at DLR and WDW, not John's. To them the stars of the Company are people like Meg, not John. In their view, when you give people like John too much power they get swelled heads and you get products like John Carter. John still can win... but like any other creative at Disney Parks, only occasionally. And he certainly wouldn't go to the mat with Tom over Monstropolis -- it wouldn't make any sense given the way things are.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 10-15-2013 at 09:23 PM.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  10. #70

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLRDAD View Post
    Was CARSLAND done at the " cheapest possible price"?
    Man I don't think I've ever seen so much Disney bashing. Seems like it might be better off to become a lover of Disney history and maybe a collector of all things Disney past since there is such despising of Disney in its current and future form. I think Dizney rightly wants to increase its bottom line by pleasing the largest number of people it can with various additions and then is able to expand with new parks and attractions based on increased revenue. Sometimes we have to accept that we are just out of step with what the vast majority is interested in with the humility of not just assuming we are just so much smarter than the " ignorant masses."
    Basically most people on here are suggesting that Disney just ignore the unsurpassed success of CARSLAND and Potter, using popular IP's and using them for an entire land, and go with what you like because you prefer the way things USED TO BE done.
    While the ride is cool....the inside is not even as close to amazing as Pirates...a ride build 40 years ago...in fact since then nothing as come close to that level of detail and thought

    Also one new ride does not make up for the 15 years of lack of new original rides...Walt opened the Matterhon, subs and monorail on one day all original, unique and iconic rides

  11. #71

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    While the ride is cool....the inside is not even as close to amazing as Pirates...a ride build 40 years ago...in fact since then nothing as come close to that level of detail and thought.
    Exactly. And that's with Carsland having a ginormous budget.


    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    Also one new ride does not make up for the 15 years of lack of new original rides...Walt opened the Matterhon, subs and monorail on one day all original, unique and iconic rides
    Yep -- and 54 years later they're still world-famous icons. Considering what Disney has created in the last 15 years at DLR and WDW (or rather, what they haven't created), it's just a little hard to believe that whatever they do in Monstropolis, Star Wars Tomorrowland and Avatarland will be as successful and beloved 54 years from now in 2067 A.D.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  12. #72

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    And yet RSR is the biggest hit DLR has had in 20 years. Much of RSR's detail ison the outside. A ride doesn't have to copy Pirates style to be well done. The water fall, the rock work and the racing portion, IMHO, are equally important to the dark ride portion. The animatronics in RSR are absolutely incredible. This wasn't intended to be a slow moving boat road that is all about animatronics.

  13. #73

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    While the ride is cool....the inside is not even as close to amazing as Pirates...a ride build 40 years ago...in fact since then nothing as come close to that level of detail and thought

    Also one new ride does not make up for the 15 years of lack of new original rides...Walt opened the Matterhon, subs and monorail on one day all original, unique and iconic rides
    The monorail is only original in the same way the skyway was.
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  14. #74

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon View Post
    While the ride is cool....the inside is not even as close to amazing as Pirates...a ride build 40 years ago...in fact since then nothing as come close to that level of detail and thought.
    All that detail and thought have not aged well. Aside from the sea battle, the rest of the ride is slow, quaint and incoherent. I suspect its continuing relevance is due more to reputation as a classic Disney ride than to anything else.

  15. #75

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    Re: Am I the only one concerned about Monstropolis?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Yep -- and 54 years later they're still world-famous icons. Considering what Disney has created in the last 15 years at DLR and WDW (or rather, what they haven't created), it's just a little hard to believe that whatever they do in Monstropolis, Star Wars Tomorrowland and Avatarland will be as successful and beloved 54 years from now in 2067 A.D.
    Not hard to believe at all. As an intellectual property, STAR WARS and its clones have already proven themselves. Thirty-five years later and it is still very much a vital part of our popular culture. Outside of their existence in the theme parks as rides, was this ever the case with any of the original Disney properties?

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