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  1. #16

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    In management's eyes they can't justify spending more on original attractions because they don't have the downstream return on investment that IP's do, i.e. merchandise.
    Which is sad that managements eyes can't see that Haunted Mansion merchandise fly's off the shelves.
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  2. #17

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Which is sad that managements eyes can't see that Haunted Mansion merchandise fly's off the shelves.
    In the theme parks, sure, but that's tiny. Think of it this way, how many shelves at Walmart or Target does Haunted Mansion have? It's not even in same universe as Cars, Star Wars or the Princesses.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  3. #18

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The modern franchise marketing theory was developed by Iger immediately after he was promoted to CEO. Of course it was started by Eisner, but really Iger was the one who made it what it is despite so many Disney fans liking to blame Eisner for everything.
    Actually Eisner loved original ideas and was a big supporter of them. He constantly challenged Imagineering to come up with better stuff, even if he couldn't fund them. He was willing to do entire theme parks not based on franchises.

    The culprit here is Iger and it is fundamentally because he is a square. He is a stick in the mud. He has a stick up his ---. Iger has gotten so bad that now every film Disney is making is based off a previous property. Alice in Wonderland. Tron. Maleficent. Dark Cinderella....and so on and so forth. The man has not a creative bone in his body. I doubt he even likes the product he delivers, and I have doubts that he likes any sort of art at all.

    He is so cynical he thinks of his audience as animals, who pay money by having Pavlovian responses to familiar franchises. I wish it goes ill with him, in all his endeavors, even at the expense of the company in the short term. What he is trying to pull off his the height of arrogance.

  4. #19

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    ^^^
    The best part Choco .... after the results of John Carter, Oz, and Lone Ranger ... Iger has gone on the record to say - "Tent Pole" Franchise films are still a viable way of Disney doing business.
    MY SIGNATURE:
    Dear Peoplemover Fans, If you want to see a new attraction that at least mimics the 1967 Peoplemover in a future Tomorrowland remodel, you need to write to the powers-that-be, and let them know. If you don't - Then the next time Tomorrowland is remodeled, you will see a land barren of any "Peoplemover" type attraction.

  5. #20

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneymike View Post
    Which is sad that managements eyes can't see that Haunted Mansion merchandise fly's off the shelves.
    What makes you say that? I know the 40th anniversary merch for the Tiki Room sat on a corner shelf in Adventureland for almost 5 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by choco choco View Post
    He is so cynical he thinks of his audience as animals, who pay money by having Pavlovian responses to familiar franchises.
    Wasn't the primary complaint against DCA when it opened that it didn't contain enough "Disney" attractions? Even before Iger took over there was a rush to put more franchise attractions in DCA. I don't think it started with Iger - it started with market research.

  6. #21

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post

    Wasn't the primary complaint against DCA when it opened that it didn't contain enough "Disney" attractions? Even before Iger took over there was a rush to put more franchise attractions in DCA. I don't think it started with Iger - it started with market research.
    We don't really know exactly what the market research suggested. We can only make assumptions based on what they've done. I think that it is quite likely there were a number of people who said they wanted it to me more "Disney". But I wouldn't necessarily assume that all those people meant that they wanted more franchises. To a lot of the market in Southern California being more "Disney" means being more like Disneyland in terms of encapsulating guest in a believable fantasy environment. The market research also clearly suggested that the atmosphere and lack of quality were major problems with the park as they devoted a massive amount of the money to change that. The only reason the Cadillac Range is as high as it is it to prevent visual intrusions. PP and BVS were each 100 million dollar purely cosmetic projects.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  7. #22

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Disneyland will never have to compete against Universal. Disneyland should be more concerned with home entertainment than another theme park.
    When even the idea of competing with Universal comes up, then it shows that Disney is slipping. In the past (over two decades ago), the only idea of competition for Disney was competing with Disney's history, always coming up with something that betters what they had done in the past.

    Now, there IS an issue with Disney's creative capabilities. And Universal HAS upped THEIR game, beating Disney with their latest attractions. If Disney had not ignored Spiderman and decided to sit back on their legacy, there may not BE the idea of Disney competing with Universal. But since that HAS come up, it's all because of Disney's attitude.

  8. #23

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    What makes you say that? I know the 40th anniversary merch for the Tiki Room sat on a corner shelf in Adventureland for almost 5 years.
    How much regular Tiki Room merchandise did they have? I wouldn't care what attraction, special event or celebrity had merchandise available. If it was OLD LEFTOVERS, I doubt many would ever buy it.

    While there may be a few collectors who go for specific dated merchandise, it's the general relevant merchandise that consistently sells.

  9. #24

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    When even the idea of competing with Universal comes up, then it shows that Disney is slipping. In the past (over two decades ago), the only idea of competition for Disney was competing with Disney's history, always coming up with something that betters what they had done in the past.

    Now, there IS an issue with Disney's creative capabilities. And Universal HAS upped THEIR game, beating Disney with their latest attractions. If Disney had not ignored Spiderman and decided to sit back on their legacy, there may not BE the idea of Disney competing with Universal. But since that HAS come up, it's all because of Disney's attitude.
    I agree, in terms of quality Universal has closed the gap almost completely. But in terms of business, I think the threat is way overplayed online. Universal is not going to surpass Disney nor probably ever get close to its attendance numbers. Disney has a lot more to offer, and is so far ahead in so many ways it's hard to imagine Universal ever completely catching up. Disney has a huge library of family friendly fare and that's one of the keys to theme park success. With Universal's parks being located close to Disney's, for every customer they draw away they draw another to Orlando or So Cal who will visit DLR too. Really, Universal is just helping to make these markets more appealing vacation destinations, which benefits Disney as well.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  10. #25

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Wasn't the primary complaint against DCA when it opened that it didn't contain enough "Disney" attractions?
    In point of fact, the primary complaint against DCA that it wasn't Disney enough meant it wasn't Disney quality, Disney imagination, Disney creativity and Disney magic. The boneheads running Disney research interpreted it in the only way their narrow vision allowed: "Disney means cartoon characters." And so they went blithely about slapping cartoon characters on everything, just as Michael had taught them to do at Disneyland with Gummi Glen, Disney Afternoon Avenue, Toontown, and the other poor excuses for creativity that abounded at that time.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I know the 40th anniversary merch for the Tiki Room sat on a corner shelf in Adventureland for almost 5 years.
    That 40th Anniversary merch was crap, and everyone knew it. Everyone, that is, except the clueless merchandise managers who greenlit it.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  11. #26

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by ursaguy View Post
    Disney was founded upon unoriginal rides.
    False, the fact of the matter is that over Disneyland's entire history, the list of attractions have been dominated by original ideas that were not based upon movies. It is attractions like Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain, Big Thunder Mountain, It's a Small World, Submarine Voyage, Matterhorn, Jungle Cruise, Autopia, The Disneyland Railroad, and Monorail which put this place on the map and continue to do so today as the highest populated attractions at the resort.

    Back in the 50's the vast majority of movie based attractions were limited to Fantasyland and they were always put in the lower budget bracket for a reason. Name me one attraction under the supervision of Walt Disney was ever made into an E-ticket? All anyone has to do is read the plaque at the entrance to understand that this place was far better than a mere copy and paste of their own studio's past work. A visionary's goal is never to repeat or copy, always create new ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    What makes you say that? I know the 40th anniversary merch for the Tiki Room sat on a corner shelf in Adventureland for almost 5 years.
    Being someone who is somewhat of a knowledgeable person on Haunted Mansion merchandise I can assure you that it is one of the hottest categories in the entire resort. Take this item for example, a Hitchhiking Ghost statue which was wildly hot sold for 80 bucks at its lowest point just a few short years ago is now going for over 1800 dollars for each character on Ebay. I've seen these statues countless times by different sellers and it is always the same because people pay for it.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disney-Large...item19e36c2e2c

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/DISNEY-All-3...item2c7484b832

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Haunted-Mansion-Hitchhiking-Ghost-Big-Fig-Gus-Phineas-Ezra-2-Tombstones-MINT-/321225950522?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aca8f 053a


    Last edited by Seawolf; 10-17-2013 at 02:29 AM.

  12. #27

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    What makes you say that? I know the 40th anniversary merch for the Tiki Room sat on a corner shelf in Adventureland for almost 5 years.
    I believe Mr. Wiggins put it succinctly enough, if it is crap it won't sell. Look at the quality HM merch and how they consistently sell out.
    “No worries, stay calm, one question. 
Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”

  13. #28

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    We don't really know exactly what the market research suggested. We can only make assumptions based on what they've done.
    I think this quote from Bob I get pretty much sums up how he felt about the expansion of DCA:

    It does seem strange that it was a California theme park with hardly any Disney characters.
    We probably underestimated how much people would demand Disney when they come to a park that has the Disney name on it.
    It seems clear to me based on this, and other things said and done, that Iger was referring to the Disney brand being missing from the park (characters, movies, etc) being a major complaint.

    As for the quality of the attractions, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the concept of the Fun Wheel being a better attraction because it has Mickeys face on it. Since most of Paradise Pier remained the same, save for the plastering of Disney characters on everything, I don't see how it could be considered a quality upgrade.

    Unless branding = quality. Which just reinforces the theme of this thread.

  14. #29

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The boneheads running Disney research interpreted it in the only way their narrow vision allowed: "Disney means cartoon characters." And so they went blithely about slapping cartoon characters on everything,
    And it worked right? The complaints about the park stopped, attendance increased, and Iger is the hero who saved DCA by daring to add Mickey Mouse where Eisner didn't want him to go.



    That 40th Anniversary merch was crap, and everyone knew it. Everyone, that is, except the clueless merchandise managers who greenlit it.
    Well there you go. If they can't please the collectors why waste their time trying? They make enough money off mickey mouse sweatshirts anyway.

    The merchandize argument is pretty silly. Folks complain that they are too obsessed with spreadsheets and numbers until it comes to actually selling merchandise? The reason they don't produce park specific stuff is simple: it does not sell.

    If that stuff was flying off the shelves, they would have made the Disneyana shop bigger instead of closing it.

  15. #30

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    Re: Why originanlity is going to be severly limited at DL (for the time being)

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    When even the idea of competing with Universal comes up, then it shows that Disney is slipping.
    I just read a newspaper article on the open I g of Toontown which was about 20 years ago and they made the same comparisons between Universal and Disneyland that folks do now. The comparisons and cries of competition have been going on as long as that park has been open and there just isn't any real results to show.

    In 20 years they will still say that Universal is catching up to Disney and is a threat, by will it honestly be true? Probably not.

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