Page 13 of 17 FirstFirst ... 310111213141516 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 250
  1. #181

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,497

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Am I talking over your head? Because I never said turn them into a tourist, and I gave several options as ways of incentives for repeat visits. You either aren't comprehending, not reading, or so fixated you can't see outside the norm.
    You gave only one option for locals.... "discounted pay per use model that encourages repeat visits"

    I didn't see where you offer more incentives for the local.
    No, it's not. It's more akin to what you see from FL resident usage, or what you see from DLR APs who live more than a half day drive away. They don't show up after work.. they don't pop in for a few hours and leave... they don't use DLR as a meeting point for their friends.. they don't show up at 2pm and whine about FP return times... they don't show up 10+ times a month.. etc. They consolidate their 'disney time+energy' into less trips where they stay longer.
    How does that differ with what I've said as "the old model of once a year visits." because that is what will happen when the APs are discontinued. Locals will not make repeated visits several times a year if they must buy a day pass. It just doesn't work that way. Locals will return home after a visit. It isn't always so easy to return unless it is a short trip between their various appointments and obligations. The incentive of an AP is a monetary one since they paid for it upfront and the fact that the AP gives them flexibility to visit frequently and that they don't feel ripped off if they had to leave the park in a shorter time frame.

    No, I see it as a situation where fans are so rabid, Disney is leaving money on the table and hurting themselves operationally (and in capital expense as well) because of the AP program. They are trading predictable guaranteed quarter to quarter revenue in exchange for having to spend more, scramble more, and a reduced guest experience. But if you are measured more on revenue and less on margin... or you can prop margin up by just cutting labor or raising prices.. the guaranteed money is the easy path. And when your boss is only on 3 year rotations... why rock the boat?
    If you really think this is a problem, then they must fix it. It is an unseen problem by you and you don't know. All you can see is the crowding an that bothers you. Nothing you can do about that.

    The reference was to show the fallacy of your claim the costs are pre-determined anyway.. so why not let them in. If you believe that.. why not go all the way to 'let anyone in'... I wasn't actually suggesting that it was viable, but in fact the complete opposite. I'm starting to remember why I skipped these posts before... its not worth the energy.
    You haven't disproved it, but it's fine that you feel this way since feelings cannot be disproven.

  2. #182

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,497

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    *raises hand*

    Part of why I dropped my AP - I'd gone from visiting multiple times monthly to maybe 2-3 times a year. Now that I've dropped it, I don't go at all and anything I would have spent at a theme park goes to the drastically less expensive park up the road.

    I know *many* APs that go maybe 4-5 times over the course of the year. They're brushing right underneath the break even point, but the convenience of the AP makes paying more per visit worthwhile. Same reason I have cousins who'll come out for two weeks, go once and buy an AP, then come back at the end of the year and go again - two visits, premium AP price paid, and they're not alone in doing so.
    Without the AP, fewer locals will bother with going to Disneyland. I know I don't bother. My premise is AP fulfills the entertainment value for singles who have time and money and no family obligations. The AP is very expensive for a family. Families who can't afford to buy APs might just buy a day pass and go once a year. For single persons, they don't bother with day passes. Why would they want to visit Disneyland? They won't go at all UNLESS an AP fulfills their need to waste time.

  3. #183

    • New Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    11

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents. Here in Vegas, the hotels cater to tourists. Why? Because they spend more. Tourists spend more money on food, hotel stay, gambling, entertainment, merchandise, etc. Us locals, whenever we do go to the strip, just go for a quick meal or a show. Sometimes we eat elsewhere where we know the food is cheaper and in some cases better quality.

    In my case whenever we do go to Disneyland, we tend to eat, sleep, and shop at Disney. All our money, for the amount of days that we are there, goes to Disney.

  4. #184

    • Sorcerer Supreme Bean
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    3,177

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Without the AP, fewer locals will bother with going to Disneyland. I know I don't bother. My premise is AP fulfills the entertainment value for singles who have time and money and no family obligations. The AP is very expensive for a family. Families who can't afford to buy APs might just buy a day pass and go once a year. For single persons, they don't bother with day passes. Why would they want to visit Disneyland? They won't go at all UNLESS an AP fulfills their need to waste time.
    Did the lack of an AP program dissuade locals from attending frequently before it was created?
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

  5. #185

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,497

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    1 - Yes, that's the ideal case and why most businesses will offer discounts for upfront purchases. But how many people do you know that bought an AP and never hit their break-even vs 1-2 day tickets?
    2 - If the guest were spending.. but when APs skip buying all the cheap merch, eat off site, don't stay long enough for fixed meals, etc... Disney is behind
    3 - The cost of the visit is NOT low when those guests in aggregate alter the visiting pattern of the park. This is the core issue. Needing more parking spots, needing more staff at different hours, needing more staff at peak hours vs longer windows, etc.. these all make these guests more cost impact than a tourist guest.
    4 - Inflation isn't a factor in such short periods
    5 - Interest gain on $500-$600 over a 12m period? That's comical. Yes, Disney is so far ahead with that 2 cents it's earned.. *rolleyes*
    At minimum, they already paid for the parking $15, unless they paid for that upfront. Maybe you think parking is free.

    You think the won't buy food and drink. Certainly, they might not, but even for a cheap guy like me, I spent money on alternative trips. Maybe a little here or there $10 to $20. I might even break down buy a toy for $20.

    The infrastructure is already paid for. The employees is set.

    Inflation is constant. Imagine $300,000,000 revenue from $300 APs, and 1 million guests. At 1% interest = $3 million. This is not chump change.

    Oh I can handle it.. I'm just smart enough to know it's doesn't freaking matter.
    If I give you $10... and then take $15 from over the next 3 months. People doing the same every day doesn't less the impact of me taking $15 from you. It's the same cycle being repeated and you lose in the long run.. even if at certain days you think you are ahead because at a single slice in time you may be cash positive.

    You keep going back to 'revenue that would not be earned' on the pretense if I didn't collect it up front.. I never would get it. That's the point you can't comprehend. No one is saying 'never collect that money' - people are advocating a pricing model that collects that same money or more.
    You will might not ever collect because you never know. The problem with presuming people will come back is when they left, there is no assurance the transaction is be done later. It's a good thing you don't work in sales (neither do I), but sales must be done immediately or it is potentially lost.

    Frankly, an AP is enticing when you're already at the parks. When you're at home, you're distracted and you have other business. You don't think about returning to Disneyland for months or another year.

  6. #186

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,663

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    *raises hand*

    Part of why I dropped my AP - I'd gone from visiting multiple times monthly to maybe 2-3 times a year. Now that I've dropped it, I don't go at all and anything I would have spent at a theme park goes to the drastically less expensive park up the road.

    I know *many* APs that go maybe 4-5 times over the course of the year. They're brushing right underneath the break even point, but the convenience of the AP makes paying more per visit worthwhile
    4-5 times a year would be beyond the break even point in last year's prices. $469 for a deluxe.. and one day park hopper was 125. Or if you want to look at a weekend trip, two day park hopper was $200 so more than two weekend trips = in the black.

    Of course if you are Socal, the break even is much less.

    But you proved the point for you... you stopped going enough to make the AP legit so you didn't buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Same reason I have cousins who'll come out for two weeks, go once and buy an AP, then come back at the end of the year and go again - two visits, premium AP price paid, and they're not alone in doing so.
    So again.. they broke even.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  7. #187

    • Singing Drinker
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    2,126

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Did the lack of an AP program dissuade locals from attending frequently before it was created?
    Hard call - back in the early/mid '80s Disneyland was still the redheaded stepchild of the Disney park empire and of course the all-seeing-all-knowing internet was not a factor at that point.

    I suspect that they did not. One of the refrains from old Usenet boards I used to frequent was that the park was being abandoned by Disney because attendance was in the toilet and was essentially a handful of spoiled OC kids who'd show up every night whether they were AP or buying with mommy's money and a collection of locals who'd show up once or twice a year tops. Anecdotal and based on memory, but I vaguely remember a huge dustup on ADD regarding opinions that the initial cause of the AP program was Disney's way of trying to increase attendance at the park by luring in locals who'd come in more frequently and spend more money per year than the average tourist.

    I remember those days with a small amount of fear that they'll return - that was the "why bother with new rides, these idiot locals show up regardless" years. Internally with Disney the focus has definitely shifted - otherwise we'd be bemoaning the new Fantasyland bathrooms and lack of any new attractions rather than eyeing what's next after Carsland.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  8. #188

    • Singing Drinker
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    2,126

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    4-5 times a year would be beyond the break even point in last year's prices. $469 for a deluxe.. and one day park hopper was 125. Or if you want to look at a weekend trip, two day park hopper was $200 so more than two weekend trips = in the black.

    Of course if you are Socal, the break even is much less.

    But you proved the point for you... you stopped going enough to make the AP legit so you didn't buy it.



    So again.. they broke even.
    ...your math. It is not convincing. Even assuming the amount I was going broke even - the math I did said it didn't unless I was willing to deal with the parks more frequently - it's impossible to make two full price day admissions equal in price to the full premium AP. $184<$400+.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  9. #189

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,663

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Of course if you buy an AP for $500 and go 300 times then your per-visit cost will be much lower than if you paid full price for those 300 visits. That's forgetting, of course, that nobody would go 300 times if they had to pay full price
    And ignores no one needs to go that much to break even.. and that you don't need to go that much before the gain falls off for Disney.

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    And for the hundredth time, do you really think that Disney hasn't crunched the numbers here? I'm going to be honest, I think the idea that Disney is leaving money on the table is false on its face. Disney is extremely good at not leaving money on the table, if anything they're great at taking all the money from the table and then convincing people to put even more money on.
    You're ignoring that Disney is actually made up of people. People who have their own motivations... motivations that include self preservation, greed, short-term thinking, and risk aversion.

    You could make the same argument over maintenance and why letting it decline was the right thing to do... arguing that Disney 'hasnt crunched the numbers here?' and the fact they left things goto rot was the choice made by Disney.. a company known for 'great at taking all the money from the table and then convincing people to put even more money on'.

    Yet we know for the long haul of the park, it's NOT a smart move, even if it benefits Disney in the short term. Same thing here...
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  10. #190

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,497

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Did the lack of an AP program dissuade locals from attending frequently before it was created?
    The prices of going was much much less before the AP. I don't see how we can go backwards. All things being equal. I didn't go much at all even though I was a big fan. I remember it costing $60 to get in before the APs. Even then, I would go maybe once a year. Sometimes I'll wait longer. Disneyland takes a long time to create new attractions. If you seen it once, why go back if not for new rides?

    The old model is a cheaper admission price, but customers still won't go without new rides. Disneyland was a boring park for anyone over 12 years old. Sorry.

  11. #191

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,663

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You gave only one option for locals.... [I][B]"discounted pay per use model that encourages repeat visits"
    Let me quote my post again for you...
    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    What you see is people saying 'end the all you can eat' programs. There are many alternative models... including buying admissions in bulk for discounts (your example.. which I've mentioned numerous times before)... loyalty programs that reduce the prices the more you buy.. membership programs that allow buying at a steep discount in exchange for an upfront commitment.. etc.
    This is just the tip of the iceberg - the point being there are many different ways to incentivize repeat business and upsell... without giving away the cow.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    How does that differ with what I've said as "the old model of once a year visits."
    Uhh.. because it wouldn't be once a year? I thought that was kind of obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Locals will not make repeated visits several times a year if they must buy a day pass. It just doesn't work that way
    So you think the only way locals will make multiple visits to Disneyland is if its PREpaid... nothing else would work. Why is it people are willing to goto the movies multiple times a year and pay per use? Or any other entertainment option?

    The problem is you think there are only two options... pay $100/visit.. or buy an AP. You fail to accept there are other potential revenue models. What if your gate price per visit was more like $30... would that make it so people would never come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    If you really think this is a problem, then they must fix it. It is an unseen problem by you and you don't know. All you can see is the crowding an that bothers you. Nothing you can do about that.
    Well.. we are talking about the business practices and models of the company. One must consider the business culture and how people are motivated within the organization if one hopes to change the decision processes. It's not something we can necessarily change directly - but it is the topic on hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You haven't disproved it, but it's fine that you feel this way since feelings cannot be disproven.
    Business and logic are not feelings.. but I can't force a horse to drink.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  12. #192

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,663

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    ...your math. It is not convincing
    You find 4x125 = $500 > $489 'not convincing'? Ok, well it doesn't matter - it's factual.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Even assuming the amount I was going broke even - the math I did said it didn't unless I was willing to deal with the parks more frequently - it's impossible to make two full price day admissions equal in price to the full premium AP. $184<$400+.
    Exactly you stopped going enough, so you stopped buying the AP. What is of question here? You proved through your own experience when people see themselves not getting the value out of the AP - they stop buying it.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  13. #193

    • a wind to shake the stars
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    935

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    You're ignoring that Disney is actually made up of people. People who have their own motivations... motivations that include self preservation, greed, short-term thinking, and risk aversion.

    You could make the same argument over maintenance and why letting it decline was the right thing to do... arguing that Disney 'hasnt crunched the numbers here?' and the fact they left things goto rot was the choice made by Disney.. a company known for 'great at taking all the money from the table and then convincing people to put even more money on'.

    Yet we know for the long haul of the park, it's NOT a smart move, even if it benefits Disney in the short term. Same thing here...
    People, yes, but people with numbers. Disney has a huge amount of data about nearly ever aspect of operation in their theme parks. I find it difficult to believe that you, with none of that information, are better informed about their finances.

  14. #194

    • Singing Drinker
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    2,126

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    You find 4x125 = $500 > $489 'not convincing'? Ok, well it doesn't matter - it's factual.



    Exactly you stopped going enough, so you stopped buying the AP. What is of question here? You proved through your own experience when people see themselves not getting the value out of the AP - they stop buying it.
    Two things - first, did I miss a price increase? I have not paid $125 at any point for single day admission to Disneyland.

    Second - your general argument seems to be that I should have stopped paying for the AP and then continued supporting Disneyland by going on individual day trips. That has not in any way, shape or form happened - I simply removed the $1k plus minimum amount yearly I was spending at Disneyland and went where I enjoyed myself more. I'm pretty sure in Disney's book that would be a financial loss.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  15. #195

    • Pilot EdForceOne
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    15,663

    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Two things - first, did I miss a price increase? I have not paid $125 at any point for single day admission to Disneyland.
    That is the price of a single day park hopper last year. The same benefit you get as an AP.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Second - your general argument seems to be that I should have stopped paying for the AP and then continued supporting Disneyland by going on individual day trips. That has not in any way, shape or form happened - I simply removed the $1k plus minimum amount yearly I was spending at Disneyland and went where I enjoyed myself more. I'm pretty sure in Disney's book that would be a financial loss.
    No, that's not what I said at all.. you yourself decided to stop going to DLR regardless of your AP status or not. Obviously people that are not interested in going to DLR anymore aren't part of the discussion. My discussion has never been about enticing people back to DLR - but how to optimize the revenue per guest who are going and want to go.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

Page 13 of 17 FirstFirst ... 310111213141516 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 55
    Last Post: 01-25-2012, 08:12 AM
  2. The Night The LIghts Went Out At Disneyland
    By Beatle_johnny in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-22-2006, 10:46 AM
  3. Take the D out of Disneyland!
    By ALIASd in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-29-2006, 10:31 AM
  4. New Brer Fox out in Disneyland?
    By tcsnwhite in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-08-2005, 11:59 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •