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  1. #196

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Let me quote my post again for you...


    This is just the tip of the iceberg - the point being there are many different ways to incentivize repeat business and upsell... without giving away the cow.
    I will agree that they should try these incentives.
    "loyalty programs that reduce the prices the more you buy.."

    "membership programs that allow buying at a steep discount in exchange for an upfront commitment"
    They are both "buy as you go plans" that have different pricing structures. I am sure the result is a pass that is swiped at the entrance turnstiles that instantly bill your credit card account. Does that become an incentive or a disincentive? It is possible to think you're getting a good deal, but you could hesitate if you're short on cash that month. "Oh, I might just skip Disneyland because I have to pay to get my car fixed." Nonetheless, it is nice to consider these options.

    I would prefer my pre-paid plan of buying a ticket book of admissions. You just need to redeem them instead of getting nickeled and dimed as I might feel with the previous options.

    I still might think the ticket plans are not suitable if I can't stay for the whole day. The more you go, the more familiar you are with the place and you might not want to be there the whole day.

  2. #197

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    For many years Disney has been strategically developing new ways of enticing guests to visit their parks frequently. One of the main reasons the month-to-month AP payment system was implemented. Disney tactically advertises their “limited events” through social media and die hard fans. From FB, Instagram, Twitter, blogs, discussion boards, Disney AP holders are well informed of upcoming events in the parks. A recent example was the Friday the 13th event from coast to coast – clearly the larger local crowds arrived around 5 pm to catch a glimpse of the event, along with the limited edition merchandise.

    Many AP holders and locals take advantage of Disneyland local events because it’s something new, exciting, and different. Its obvious Disney wants their die hard AP holders to return more than just one or two times per year. Disney like any other company wants/needs to generate money, and heavily relies on their attendance to have successful earrings. I agree with many on this discussion board...Disneyland has become expensive, a regular family of 4 can be costly, but no one here is being forced to attend the park or purchase AP.

  3. #198

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I will agree that they should try these incentives.


    They are both "buy as you go plans" that have different pricing structures. I am sure the result is a pass that is swiped at the entrance turnstiles that instantly bill your credit card account. Does that become an incentive or a disincentive? It is possible to think you're getting a good deal, but you could hesitate if you're short on cash that month. "Oh, I might just skip Disneyland because I have to pay to get my car fixed." Nonetheless, it is nice to consider these options.

    I would prefer my pre-paid plan of buying a ticket book of admissions. You just need to redeem them instead of getting nickeled and dimed as I might feel with the previous options.
    In this era... the programs would obviously be electronic.. but there are different ways you can present the options to the customer.

    1) Membership model. Imagine if Disney charged you an annual membership fee, and once you were in, you paid a significantly discounted admission price. This is the "Membership Warehouse" model.. like Costco. But for something like Disney it would be much higher values (upfront and discounts). The aim of a program like this is every admission is paid for and an upfront upsell opportunity. The con to this is, finding the balance point to entice return visits... the previous commitment push.. and the per visit being cheap enough to offset the resistance to paying 'today'

    2) Discount in bulk - Allow customers to pre-buy a number of admissions they could use however they want (family members, friends, etc) and in return you give them a ladder system of decreasing prices. Buy 5, get 10% off.. buy 10 get x% off, etc. If the passes are tied to an individual or not impacts your model significantly.. you could even offer both. But the premise is still.. every admission is paid for... an upsell opportunity.. and once bought in (like an AP) the user has a very strong tie to return. The model can also make it affordable for those who want to visit alot (like an AP) without giving 'all you can eat'

    3) Loyalty program - 'put your money where your mouth is'. Run the program that based on the more you spend... the more you get. Reward those that actually spend, and in doing so entice them to spend more. Create tiered discounts for admission, merch, and food. Much like the AP discounts now.. but you don't allow people to simply buy in.. but actually reward spending in the parks over time.. over multiple years. Build champions and ensure they always spend their money with you, and in turn bring others with them.

    Of course there are other variations and combinations of these... but the common thread in the ones I outline is stop giving gate admission away simply because you are a member. Instead, make the visit 'worth something' and entice them to be there.. vs relying on 'why not.. its free' mentality.
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    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  4. #199

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Inflation is constant. Imagine $300,000,000 revenue from $300 APs, and 1 million guests. At 1% interest = $3 million. This is not chump change.
    Or, imagine $500,000,000 from 10 million different guests (or some duplicate guests) at $50 per guest.
    This is less chumpier.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  5. #200

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    I prefer the loyalty program, flynny.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  6. #201

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sfjgarcia View Post
    For many years Disney has been strategically developing new ways of enticing guests to visit their parks frequently. One of the main reasons the month-to-month AP payment system was implemented
    The month to month program was purely to address people's resistance to big dollar purchases in face of economic uncertainty during the economic plummet of 2007 onward.

    Quote Originally Posted by sfjgarcia View Post
    Many AP holders and locals take advantage of Disneyland local events because it’s something new, exciting, and different. Its obvious Disney wants their die hard AP holders to return more than just one or two times per year
    The existance of things like the AP program complicates life. The seasonal offerings were originally offers to boost the park's draw during classically 'off season' periods. Now they make great carrots to encourage people to buy into the AP... but now the AP believe those things are owed to them. Now a promotion is expected to be standard. And the more frequent people visit, the more frequently the park must change to keep the product fresh for them.

    The system of variables creates lots of unintended consequences that must be balanced.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  7. #202

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    My mind still boggles at the idea that the words "free" and "giving it away" are anywhere near a discussion of a system that costs several hundred dollars per year per person.

  8. #203

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    I prefer the loyalty program, flynny.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    My mind still boggles at the idea that the words "free" and "giving it away" are anywhere near a discussion of a system that costs several hundred dollars per year per person.
    I don't see why.......you've heard of "buy two, get one free" promotions.....what Disney is doing is kinda like that (except it's more like "buy 5, get 310 for free )
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  9. #204

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    At minimum, they already paid for the parking $15, unless they paid for that upfront. Maybe you think parking is free.
    Parking is just like gate admission... Disney sets a prepaid price of approx 3-4x the single rate and then you are free beyond that.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You think the won't buy food and drink. Certainly, they might not, but even for a cheap guy like me, I spent money on alternative trips. Maybe a little here or there $10 to $20. I might even break down buy a toy for $20.
    But think about how your spending changes on how frequently you are there. You're not seeing the bigger picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    The infrastructure is already paid for. The employees is set.
    Wrong on both accounts. Disney's costs scale with the guest load. They are not fixed. Higher crowds means more cycles on equipment, hiring out offsite parking, shuttles, staff, etc. The costs are not directly linear to guest count because there are quantizer effects and minimums. The best way to think about it is in 'stepped' values.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Inflation is constant. Imagine $300,000,000 revenue from $300 APs, and 1 million guests. At 1% interest = $3 million. This is not chump change.
    You're comparing an aggregate but ignoring what the aggregate on the other side of the comparison is. $3 million sounds like alot.. except when you are comparing it to numbers hundreds of times bigger (the additional cost incurred by those million people over a full year). Basic alegbra tells you that when you multiply both sides of an equation by the same thing.. your relation stays true.

    So looking at one customer or 1 million doesn't make a difference. Their gain from interest is dwarfed by their incremental cost. You said their additional costs are offset by the interest. If Disney has to staff up to cover 10k more guests on a day... those 10k guest's interest is only bringing the company 30k for the ENTIRE YEAR.. so more like $82 a day. $82 a day won't even pay one additional front-line CM for a single 8hr shift for that day. Where in reality a spike of 10k guests in the park brings far more additional cost to the bottom line of operations for the day.

    So again.. if I give you $3 million dollars.. but take away $10 million over the course of a year.. you still lose even tho you had 3 million for a period of time.

    nevermind the whole point that don't recognize or collect all the revenue from all 1 million APs at once.. so you're hanging your hat on a number you never would see anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You will might not ever collect because you never know. The problem with presuming people will come back is when they left, there is no assurance the transaction is be done later. It's a good thing you don't work in sales (neither do I), but sales must be done immediately or it is potentially lost.
    I do have a background in sales and pricing - and the prepaid is not the only viable model out there as proven by millions of examples that surround you every day.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  10. #205

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Actually it's more like "give us $500 and you can get into the park for a full year."

    That's not free by any definition of that word, it's simply discounted when compared to other options. Traditionally things are cheaper when you buy more of them as well.

  11. #206

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    My mind still boggles at the idea that the words "free" and "giving it away" are anywhere near a discussion of a system that costs several hundred dollars per year per person.
    Because not everyone is distracted by the shiny light and can see the bigger picture.

    Next time you are in negotiation for a big dollar item.. say a house.. let's see if you hold the same type of mindset that a few hundred dollars defines the scale of value.
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    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  12. #207

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    I prefer the loyalty program, flynny.
    The challenge is a Loyalty program alone isn't enough. Loyalty programs are good for creating vendor lock... trying to keep customers at your place vs the competition... but alone they tend to lack the enticement to create a new transaction. In a DLR case, it would have to be combined with another program (like Prepaid) to encourage a repeat visit.

    The loyalty program is a great answer to those who complain 'they are Disney's best customers!!!' - but needs more to address the audience that isn't as addicted to Disney. You need to combine it a system that helps push people over the edge to make another visit.

    A variation that helps that is instead of a Loyalty program you use a Rewards program. Where you pay people back a percentage for their patronage. This also has the advantage that people tend to spend money to redeem the rewards. These types of programs favor the vendor much more than the customer... but push different buttons.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
    Am I evil? I am man, yes, I am

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  13. #208

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Actually it's more like "give us $500 and you can get into the park for a full year."

    That's not free by any definition of that word, it's simply discounted when compared to other options. Traditionally things are cheaper when you buy more of them as well.
    Well, if you're going to be that stingy and strict with the word "free" then I suppose nothing is truly free.
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  14. #209

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Because not everyone is distracted by the shiny light and can see the bigger picture.

    Next time you are in negotiation for a big dollar item.. say a house.. let's see if you hold the same type of mindset that a few hundred dollars defines the scale of value.
    Feel free to patronize me all you want but you're the one who thinks they know more about making money than a company that rakes in billions of dollars per year.

    This is about annual passes, not houses. For the majority of guests Disney is charging them hundreds of dollars up front and then making $x per visit, on average, when the guest spends money on food and merch and other things that aren't included in the initial pass purchase. This is not "giving it away" in any sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Well, if you're going to be that stingy and strict with the word "free" then I suppose nothing is truly free.
    I just really can't believe that a handful of posters on an internet forum are somehow more in tune with the intricacies of Disney's finances than Disney is, especially given that Disney has access to worlds of numbers and datasets that you'll never see.

  15. #210

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuckyDelite View Post
    It isn't so much "priced out" for me, but more about comparing the cost to other things I'd like to do. A week in Hawaii versus an annual pass.

    I'll probably still go to the park once a year, but I'd rather spend the annual pass money on something more substantial.
    There is no way you can get a week in Hawaii for the cost of an Annual Pass. I know... I live here. I bought a Deluxe Annual Pass last year and it was the best decision I've made. Sure, I have to fly thousands of miles to visit the park but I've saved a ton of money with an AP over buying "day" passes. So far we've been to the park 19 days and we have another 7 day trip planned in November before the pass expires. That's 26 days for the price of 2-4 day passes (I bought my passes before the increase early last year... I believe they were $379 for Deluxe). That's around 18 free days, in my book. With all of the points and miles cards out there now it makes it a lot more "affordable" to take vacations and to spend money on trips like this. I think of it this way... 5 day hoppers are $300 so after 8 days in the park everything else is free. Awesome!

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