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  1. #91

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post

    There's simply no question that Disneyland was not designed to withstand a continual assault by a million locals whose Annual Passports can get them entry for pennies on the dollar virtually anytime they wish. There's no question that the AP program, as currently implemented by Disney, is out of control and is contributing to the decline in perceived value of a visit to Disneyland that is being experienced by many.
    Exactly!
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  2. #92

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You no longer agree with your previous statement? "It wont be if crowding levels continue to eat away at the 'off season' that is so crucial for major maintenance and upkeep"

    That reinforces my previous statement that the off-season is becoming less.

    It already is.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  3. #93

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Glad you asked, thanks: it's a quandary ..... Sure, I could afford to go, I can easily find the time and money, but like most of these postings I find it too crowded to enjoy very much these days. But there are other BIG factors; it IS quite expensive, and I not sure it's worth it anymore. Round trip drive across LA from my home in Glendale, near Imagineering, takes about three gallons of gas, or more than $10. Parking vanishes another $20. I am already not having fun unless I have an Annual-pass to make that cost invisible. Which is certainly true about the blinding cost of basically $100. to enter. And, you really don't want to stand in a line for that insult to your wallet. So again, you better have that annual-pass, or you will be seeing just one park, which is not the new stuff, or nearly the total experience in the marketing advertisements. Park hoping is essential to crowd controlling your day, but you must have that double ticket. Now, because it costs that much money to simply be there, the only people you can have join you at the park are other pass holders. (One of the last times I tried otherwise, my nephew wanted to go again before moving out of state, but I felt terrible the whole time because the poor kids were already broke. He had no money to waste, and this date was wiping him out....what could he do when standing at the gate? Tell his girlfriend, sorry, were not going to say goodbye here today?? He didn't realize it was going to cost him several hundred dollars for the day, no matter what I told him). Okay, so it's costly to get in. It used to be that it was worth it because everything at Disneyland was always perfect and wonderful. Now, I can not recall the last time that a substantial number of buildings were not under some kind of scaffolding or construction walls. Many of the things you pay dearly to see are just not available on any given day, never mind that you are charged for the entire experience. Maintenance used to be totally invisible, the perfection you paid for was done on off hours. Now it's done on your very expensive time, when done at all....yeah Tomorrowland I'm talking about you here...(what is George Clooney's movie going to be, 'the grime that time forgot'?). There is simply a lot LESS than there used to be to see and do at Disneyland. All manor of charming bits, big and small are just gone, and yet the prices to see whats left are the only thing astonishing about it. (I could make that nephew's wish come true to "fly" over Disneyland, but they removed both those rides many years ago, along with so many others). They added more tacky shopping opportunities for princesses and unfamous fairies instead...of a real look into the future. Nearly every "enhancement" of the last couple decades has been for the worse, and at the expense of something else, while it's the prices that have soared (a car ride through the desert is not very imaginative, the fading rocks not very impressive, go see DisneySea for amazement). So, with my pass, averaging about $50.00 per month plus gas, is it worth it to visit for a carefully chosen afternoon to avoid huge crowds? .... to enjoy mediocre food, with robotic service, at still more high prices? Maybe... I have Really loved the place!!! It's about then though that I ask myself, "really, all this to stand here in line for my Starbucks, but with screaming kids, reckless strollers and line-scammers?" It's a pretty place, but so stressful. I can get actually excellent coffee all over LA, with pleasant people. I love the hub, but those benches are rather uncomfortable, and that's about the only place to rest. (There are two seats on Main Street and you'll jostle to get one for a moment. Remember those smooth long curving planters leading to Tomorrow, with miles of seating? Long gone.....At least the private birthday party enclosure is supposed to be a full restaurant again, and it is Jolly to have that whole side usable once more). Matterhorn is simply too uncomfortable to ride since it's remodel. Subs, and others, are just lame. 'Round-up of the month' is no attraction. Holiday confusion reigns everywhere at most times. New Orleans Square is now just a hallway leading to the bathrooms, unless those are for millionaires only now too. Can't wait to see them shove the artists and more redundant merchandise into those new little alcoves which were part of the general ambience until recently. Actually, I can wait. Here is THE PROBLEM for Disney - it's that, having given up my pass a couple years ago, I can't imagine ever paying those day prices to see this state of the park. When am I ever going to wake up and say, sure I'll go spend $150. having a nice lunch at the park today? Never! As a big lifelong fan, I used to casually spend way too much money on Disney, now it's down nearly nothing, because I don't think it is worth it...in time or hassle. I used to excitedly purchase tons of mementos of my experiences at the park, but now those experiences have mostly been reduced to shopping for souvenirs... and that is boring (and not even done well), I don't do it anymore! They will need all-new, none-too-wise fans to replace my likes. It's a different thing now. I have long realized that the best thing about Disneyland is in my mind. Our digital world makes that more easy and satisfying all the time. Do I even want to spend several hundred dollars to go for one day this holiday season with my family? It would have to be a LONG day to get some value, it would include huge crowds which are never fun. Big Thunder will be down; we've seen that same holiday mansion way too many times; Small World lights look great, in the dark.... otherwise it's all running glue and soot stains. But, we never make into evening, it's too exhausting without much honest exhilaration, or respite beyond quick eating, and a hotel is out of the question anymore. (Disney wants 400+). Those pretty colorful fountains in DCA don't run all the time to enjoy, you have to schedule and shove in and out at certain times to see them, hardly makes for a relaxing evening. The food court nearby is quite lovely, but the quality and portions sizes always unsatisfying. I don't think the tiny new touches are worth the trouble taking my family to see. All the holiday decor is always cool, but every mall does better snow effects. The landscaping is always world class, but it's not even a real tree anymore.....sob, I gotta stop now. You asked....thanks.



    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money."
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  4. #94

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    ^ To me this post says it all for many of us former longtime Disneyland visitors. Given time, if Disney management continues on its current course, more and more people will echo these sentiments.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  5. #95

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    That reinforces my previous statement that the off-season is becoming less.

    It already is.
    NO, your argument was the lack of off season meant upkeep will be prevented. This isn't true.
    "It wont be if crowding levels continue to eat away at the 'off season' that is so crucial for major maintenance and upkeep"

  6. #96

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The Al Lutz MiceAge updates have reported Disney management's concern about how much less APers spend on food and merchandise relative to tourists, and how much more that APers contribute to the overcrowding of the DLR.

    There's simply no question that Disneyland was not designed to withstand a continual assault by a million locals whose Annual Passports can get them entry for pennies on the dollar virtually anytime they wish. There's no question that the AP program, as currently implemented by Disney, is out of control and is contributing to the decline in perceived value of a visit to Disneyland that is being experienced by many.

    "Bogus?" Thousand of posts on this forum over the last eight years, documenting the AP program's impact on Disneyland's infrastructure and value to the customer, say otherwise.
    It is "bogus" as a concern to the fans for the guests are spending quite a lot regardless of whether they are tourists or the regular APer local. This thread is about the complaint of high prices, yet the argument is "let's make guests spend more" for an assumed promise that more park upkeep is forthcoming. I can assure you, these things are not correlated.

  7. #97

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Wait, you just described what you'll do as a local. A local will leave early or maybe just come to the parks in the evening. If you wanted to be a tourist, shouldn't you stay in the park as much as possible from morning to night?

    A local who has an AP can come to the park whenever he pleases due to the usage of the pass; however, it isn't always so easy to come and go to the park on the same day due to the commute. Traffic is one thing a local tries to avoid. Thus, a local is likely to come to the park in short spurts. 3 to 5 hours in the morning or afternoon; or the evenings usually after work. Then go home. They also visit the park once a month.

    As for WoC, I heard there is no more waiting for this attraction. This attraction is not as popular as it once was. You don't have to worry about getting a fastpass.

    Have you visited the restaurants to see the impact of less food being consumed? This argument flies in the face of reality. There is no less consumption of food in the park. If you read the annual reports, there is more per person spending in the parks. It can be argued the higher revenue was caused by higher prices, but it seems like the increased revenue is at least 1 or 2 percent higher than price increases.

    Another point is more attendance, including that of APs, has helped to keep constant in-park spending. Otherwise, you're dealing with lower attendance with a lower level of spending. Higher spending comes from more crowds. That's just the way it works. Also, the APs are a special bunch that consumes such Disney products. You make it seem like "it is just cheap locals". Nope. It is the willing locals.
    I think you are confusing me with a local. I am not. I live pretty much halfway between DL and WDW. So that is probably about as non-local to both parks as you could be and still live in the US.

    And you are right a local with the AP will go to the park for a little time but will eat elsewhere. We got tired of the insane crowds and would leave about the time the locals came in. Considering the prices I've experienced in the past 3 years at DL I"m pretty sure that they aren't selling more food, just more expensive food based on their numbers.

    Disney hasn't killed DL yet. But they are headed that way. It reminds me of the same thing that Six Flags Over Texas did to themselves. They used to be a very clean park back in the 70's and early 80's... Then they started that annual pass garbage and the park started to really show its age. Lets face it if you build a side walk designed for 1000 people a year it isn't going to look very good if suddenly you get 10,000 a year... it is going to wear out quicker... Sometime around the 90's Six Flags started trying to push even more passes on people... they started dropping prices to generate more flow in the parks... It worked... They got more people in... they also managed to make the park look dirtier and more run down... milking the cow without bothering to wash and feed it... This past year you could get an annual pass for less than the cost of 2 days in the park... But it hasn't resulted in more people anymore... The park has become more run down to the point that they started cutting back the hours of operation because at some point they started being attractive to the poorest locals such that on some days you would be leary of going because the park looks more like a gang bangers ball.... The people with the money to spend are staying away... That is what will happen to DL if they don't stop the madness and start trying to make the park more exclusive. At one time it was a premium park, now it is starting to look more like a fancy version of Six Flags... Yes it still charges premium prices, but the experience isn't equal to the price.

    My kids were told this year to enjoy and ride whatever wasn't at WDW before we left because it would be the last time we went there for quite awhile. Hopefully they will change things and make it more of a premium experience... If not, we will simply spend out money on Universal in Orlando with a day or two of WDW thrown in... Which is really sad... I just hope the management in Florida doesn't follow the footsteps of the idiots in Anahiem.

  8. #98

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackster View Post
    I think you are confusing me with a local. I am not. I live pretty much halfway between DL and WDW. So that is probably about as non-local to both parks as you could be and still live in the US.
    No, I said what you did was what a local will do.

    Disney hasn't killed DL yet. But they are headed that way. ... Which is really sad... I just hope the management in Florida doesn't follow the footsteps of the idiots in Anahiem.
    I always thought Disneyland was better managed than WDW. Okay, if you say so.

    That Six Flags example doesn't apply. Disneyland Resort added Carsland!!! Disneyland hasn't discounted to get bodies. Upkeep is still doing fine.

    The issue is crowds. Do we want to increase prices astronomically to stop this insane crowding?

    I don't see Disney eliminating APs as a solution. It's removing another revenue stream to achieve less revenue while getting more individual spending. What executive will make that decision?

    Hopefully they will change things and make it more of a premium experience...
    I can imagine they are thinking of new admissions media. Another $200 for front of the line passes. I wonder if this is the premium you're willing to pay for.

  9. #99

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by waltopia View Post
    Glad you asked, thanks: it's a quandary ..... Sure, I could afford to go, I can easily find the time and money, but like most of these postings I find it too crowded to enjoy very much these days. But there are other BIG factors; it IS quite expensive, and I not sure it's worth it anymore. Round trip drive across LA from my home in Glendale, near Imagineering, takes about three gallons of gas, or more than $10. Parking vanishes another $20. I am already not having fun unless I have an Annual-pass to make that cost invisible. Which is certainly true about the blinding cost of basically $100. to enter. And, you really don't want to stand in a line for that insult to your wallet. So again, you better have that annual-pass, or you will be seeing just one park, which is not the new stuff, or nearly the total experience in the marketing advertisements. Park hoping is essential to crowd controlling your day, but you must have that double ticket. Now, because it costs that much money to simply be there, the only people you can have join you at the park are other pass holders. (One of the last times I tried otherwise, my nephew wanted to go again before moving out of state, but I felt terrible the whole time because the poor kids were already broke. He had no money to waste, and this date was wiping him out....what could he do when standing at the gate? Tell his girlfriend, sorry, were not going to say goodbye here today?? He didn't realize it was going to cost him several hundred dollars for the day, no matter what I told him). Okay, so it's costly to get in. It used to be that it was worth it because everything at Disneyland was always perfect and wonderful. Now, I can not recall the last time that a substantial number of buildings were not under some kind of scaffolding or construction walls. Many of the things you pay dearly to see are just not available on any given day, never mind that you are charged for the entire experience. Maintenance used to be totally invisible, the perfection you paid for was done on off hours. Now it's done on your very expensive time, when done at all....yeah Tomorrowland I'm talking about you here...(what is George Clooney's movie going to be, 'the grime that time forgot'?). There is simply a lot LESS than there used to be to see and do at Disneyland. All manor of charming bits, big and small are just gone, and yet the prices to see whats left are the only thing astonishing about it. (I could make that nephew's wish come true to "fly" over Disneyland, but they removed both those rides many years ago, along with so many others). They added more tacky shopping opportunities for princesses and unfamous fairies instead...of a real look into the future. Nearly every "enhancement" of the last couple decades has been for the worse, and at the expense of something else, while it's the prices that have soared (a car ride through the desert is not very imaginative, the fading rocks not very impressive, go see DisneySea for amazement). So, with my pass, averaging about $50.00 per month plus gas, is it worth it to visit for a carefully chosen afternoon to avoid huge crowds? .... to enjoy mediocre food, with robotic service, at still more high prices? Maybe... I have Really loved the place!!! It's about then though that I ask myself, "really, all this to stand here in line for my Starbucks, but with screaming kids, reckless strollers and line-scammers?" It's a pretty place, but so stressful. I can get actually excellent coffee all over LA, with pleasant people. I love the hub, but those benches are rather uncomfortable, and that's about the only place to rest. (There are two seats on Main Street and you'll jostle to get one for a moment. Remember those smooth long curving planters leading to Tomorrow, with miles of seating? Long gone.....At least the private birthday party enclosure is supposed to be a full restaurant again, and it is Jolly to have that whole side usable once more). Matterhorn is simply too uncomfortable to ride since it's remodel. Subs, and others, are just lame. 'Round-up of the month' is no attraction. Holiday confusion reigns everywhere at most times. New Orleans Square is now just a hallway leading to the bathrooms, unless those are for millionaires only now too. Can't wait to see them shove the artists and more redundant merchandise into those new little alcoves which were part of the general ambience until recently. Actually, I can wait. Here is THE PROBLEM for Disney - it's that, having given up my pass a couple years ago, I can't imagine ever paying those day prices to see this state of the park. When am I ever going to wake up and say, sure I'll go spend $150. having a nice lunch at the park today? Never! As a big lifelong fan, I used to casually spend way too much money on Disney, now it's down nearly nothing, because I don't think it is worth it...in time or hassle. I used to excitedly purchase tons of mementos of my experiences at the park, but now those experiences have mostly been reduced to shopping for souvenirs... and that is boring (and not even done well), I don't do it anymore! They will need all-new, none-too-wise fans to replace my likes. It's a different thing now. I have long realized that the best thing about Disneyland is in my mind. Our digital world makes that more easy and satisfying all the time. Do I even want to spend several hundred dollars to go for one day this holiday season with my family? It would have to be a LONG day to get some value, it would include huge crowds which are never fun. Big Thunder will be down; we've seen that same holiday mansion way too many times; Small World lights look great, in the dark.... otherwise it's all running glue and soot stains. But, we never make into evening, it's too exhausting without much honest exhilaration, or respite beyond quick eating, and a hotel is out of the question anymore. (Disney wants 400+). Those pretty colorful fountains in DCA don't run all the time to enjoy, you have to schedule and shove in and out at certain times to see them, hardly makes for a relaxing evening. The food court nearby is quite lovely, but the quality and portions sizes always unsatisfying. I don't think the tiny new touches are worth the trouble taking my family to see. All the holiday decor is always cool, but every mall does better snow effects. The landscaping is always world class, but it's not even a real tree anymore.....sob, I gotta stop now. You asked....thanks.

    Any chance of you dividing your text into a bunch of paragraphs? I like what you wrote, but had to stop after maybe 1/4 of the way down because it's just too difficult to read.

  10. #100

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    NO, your argument was the lack of off season meant upkeep will be prevented. This isn't true.[B]
    If only you had had read my follow up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    If its mandatory maintenance, they'll do it when they have to regardless of when it is.
    Though other than Big Thunder, they've been hesitant for months to close anything for substantial time to fix it due to crowding and the lack of the traditional off season between the end of summer and the holidays.

    Splash is still in its sad state

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I don't see Disney eliminating APs as a solution. It's removing another revenue stream to achieve less revenue while getting more individual spending. What executive will make that decision?
    Removing APs would not be less revenue than charging everyone a hard ticket price every time they wanted to go to the park. It would most likely be more. Even after they receive their flat AP money, thats all they get regardless of how many times they go. They essentially 'lose money' after the AP holder enters the park enough to make up for their ticket price comparatively to a single day ticket. But bodies in the park look good to them.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  11. #101

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    If only you had had read my follow up...
    You said this in your followup "If its mandatory maintenance, they'll do it when they have to regardless of when it is."

    The off-season doesn't matter, correct? This flies in the face that they still do a majority of their maintenance in the fall, winter, and spring. The high season is still summer.

    Though other than Big Thunder, they've been hesitant for months to close anything for substantial time to fix it due to crowding and the lack of the traditional off season between the end of summer and the holidays.

    Splash is still in its sad state
    Doesn't Splash Mountain usually do their maintenance in the winter like for most water rides? The off-season for water rides is the winter due to less people riding it since it is cold.

    Removing APs would not be less revenue than charging everyone a hard ticket price every time they wanted to go to the park. It would most likely be more. Even after they receive their flat AP money, thats all they get regardless of how many times they go. They essentially 'lose money' after the AP holder enters the park enough to make up for their ticket price comparatively to a single day ticket. But bodies in the park look good to them.
    You can't charge a local the same way you charge a tourist. It doesn't work that way. A tourist is more likely to purchase a multi-day ticket (3 days or more) since they have the time to visit the park for consecutive days. A local is more likely to purchase an one or two day ticket for the weekend and never return for the rest of the year. Before APs existed, I remembered going to Disneyland as an once a year trip. Sometimes, we might stay overnight for one night.

    Disney doesn't lose money. The cheapest Annual Pass is equivalent to a 4 or 5 day pass that a local would NEVER purchase. I said previously that a local is likely to buy a 1 or 2 day pass. A local is more likely to upgrade to an AP for short monthly visits. Most locals only visit for 3 to 5 hours, not full day trips.

    Disney can't lose money since Disney got what they weren't going to get if they didn't offer APs.

  12. #102

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You said this in your followup "If its mandatory maintenance, they'll do it when they have to regardless of when it is."

    The off-season doesn't matter, correct? This flies in the face that they still do a majority of their maintenance in the fall, winter, and spring. The high season is still summer.
    Not what I said at all, you're putting words in my mouth. I said the off-season is shrinking, so its harder to do the multi-month maintenance rides require after the busy times, because the busy times are becoming all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You can't charge a local the same way you charge a tourist. It doesn't work that way. A tourist is more likely to purchase a multi-day ticket (3 days or more) since they have the time to visit the park for consecutive days. A local is more likely to purchase an one or two day ticket for the weekend and never return for the rest of the year. Before APs existed, I remembered going to Disneyland as an once a year trip. Sometimes, we might stay overnight for one night.

    Disney doesn't lose money. The cheapest Annual Pass is equivalent to a 4 or 5 day pass that a local would NEVER purchase. I said previously that a local is likely to buy a 1 or 2 day pass. A local is more likely to upgrade to an AP for short monthly visits. Most locals only visit for 3 to 5 hours, not full day trips.

    Disney can't lose money since Disney got what they weren't going to get if they didn't offer APs.
    You can if they locals dont have the AP option anymore. They'd either pay the normal ticket prices, or not go.

    Though I think the one or two day ticket price is better than the AP canceling their AP and not paying at all, as evidented in this thread, they're getting priced/crowded out themselves.

    Though you're assuming an awful lot for your argument.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    Not what I said at all, you're putting words in my mouth. I said the off-season is shrinking, so its harder to do the multi-month maintenance rides require after the busy times, because the busy times are becoming all the time.
    EXCEPT when they absolutely need to do the mandatory maintenance (that's what you said). All they need to do is put up the barriers and tarps.

    You can if they locals dont have the AP option anymore. They'd either pay the normal ticket prices, or not go.

    Though I think the one or two day ticket price is better than the AP canceling their AP and not paying at all, as evidented in this thread, they're getting priced/crowded out themselves.

    Though you're assuming an awful lot for your argument.
    Hmm.. you accepted my assumptions by agreeing the locals will buy the 1 or 2 day tickets and that's it.

    You somehow think this means Disney haven't lost any money. If someone didn't buy the higher priced AP, Disney certainly lost that money for the year.
    Last edited by StevenW; 10-24-2013 at 09:05 AM.

  14. #104

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by waltopia View Post
    Glad you asked, thanks: it's a quandary ..... Sure, I could afford to go, I can easily find the time and money, but like most of these postings I find it too crowded to enjoy very much these days. But there are other BIG factors; it IS quite expensive, and I not sure it's worth it anymore.

    Round trip drive across LA from my home in Glendale, near Imagineering, takes about three gallons of gas, or more than $10. Parking vanishes another $20. I am already not having fun unless I have an Annual-pass to make that cost invisible. Which is certainly true about the blinding cost of basically $100. to enter. And, you really don't want to stand in a line for that insult to your wallet. So again, you better have that annual-pass, or you will be seeing just one park, which is not the new stuff, or nearly the total experience in the marketing advertisements. Park hoping is essential to crowd controlling your day, but you must have that double ticket.

    Now, because it costs that much money to simply be there, the only people you can have join you at the park are other pass holders. (One of the last times I tried otherwise, my nephew wanted to go again before moving out of state, but I felt terrible the whole time because the poor kids were already broke. He had no money to waste, and this date was wiping him out....what could he do when standing at the gate? Tell his girlfriend, sorry, were not going to say goodbye here today?? He didn't realize it was going to cost him several hundred dollars for the day, no matter what I told him). Okay, so it's costly to get in. It used to be that it was worth it because everything at Disneyland was always perfect and wonderful. Now, I can not recall the last time that a substantial number of buildings were not under some kind of scaffolding or construction walls.

    Many of the things you pay dearly to see are just not available on any given day, never mind that you are charged for the entire experience. Maintenance used to be totally invisible, the perfection you paid for was done on off hours. Now it's done on your very expensive time, when done at all....yeah Tomorrowland I'm talking about you here...(what is George Clooney's movie going to be, 'the grime that time forgot'?). There is simply a lot LESS than there used to be to see and do at Disneyland. All manor of charming bits, big and small are just gone, and yet the prices to see whats left are the only thing astonishing about it. (I could make that nephew's wish come true to "fly" over Disneyland, but they removed both those rides many years ago, along with so many others). They added more tacky shopping opportunities for princesses and unfamous fairies instead...of a real look into the future.

    Nearly every "enhancement" of the last couple decades has been for the worse, and at the expense of something else, while it's the prices that have soared (a car ride through the desert is not very imaginative, the fading rocks not very impressive, go see DisneySea for amazement). So, with my pass, averaging about $50.00 per month plus gas, is it worth it to visit for a carefully chosen afternoon to avoid huge crowds? .... to enjoy mediocre food, with robotic service, at still more high prices? Maybe... I have Really loved the place!!! It's about then though that I ask myself, "really, all this to stand here in line for my Starbucks, but with screaming kids, reckless strollers and line-scammers?" It's a pretty place, but so stressful.

    I can get actually excellent coffee all over LA, with pleasant people. I love the hub, but those benches are rather uncomfortable, and that's about the only place to rest. (There are two seats on Main Street and you'll jostle to get one for a moment. Remember those smooth long curving planters leading to Tomorrow, with miles of seating? Long gone.....At least the private birthday party enclosure is supposed to be a full restaurant again, and it is Jolly to have that whole side usable once more). Matterhorn is simply too uncomfortable to ride since it's remodel. Subs, and others, are just lame. 'Round-up of the month' is no attraction. Holiday confusion reigns everywhere at most times. New Orleans Square is now just a hallway leading to the bathrooms, unless those are for millionaires only now too. Can't wait to see them shove the artists and more redundant merchandise into those new little alcoves which were part of the general ambience until recently. Actually, I can wait.

    Here is THE PROBLEM for Disney - it's that, having given up my pass a couple years ago, I can't imagine ever paying those day prices to see this state of the park. When am I ever going to wake up and say, sure I'll go spend $150. having a nice lunch at the park today? Never! As a big lifelong fan, I used to casually spend way too much money on Disney, now it's down nearly nothing, because I don't think it is worth it...in time or hassle. I used to excitedly purchase tons of mementos of my experiences at the park, but now those experiences have mostly been reduced to shopping for souvenirs... and that is boring (and not even done well), I don't do it anymore!

    They will need all-new, none-too-wise fans to replace my likes.

    It's a different thing now. I have long realized that the best thing about Disneyland is in my mind. Our digital world makes that more easy and satisfying all the time. Do I even want to spend several hundred dollars to go for one day this holiday season with my family? It would have to be a LONG day to get some value, it would include huge crowds which are never fun. Big Thunder will be down; we've seen that same holiday mansion way too many times; Small World lights look great, in the dark.... otherwise it's all running glue and soot stains. But, we never make into evening, it's too exhausting without much honest exhilaration, or respite beyond quick eating, and a hotel is out of the question anymore. (Disney wants 400+).

    Those pretty colorful fountains in DCA don't run all the time to enjoy, you have to schedule and shove in and out at certain times to see them, hardly makes for a relaxing evening. The food court nearby is quite lovely, but the quality and portions sizes always unsatisfying. I don't think the tiny new touches are worth the trouble taking my family to see. All the holiday decor is always cool, but every mall does better snow effects. The landscaping is always world class, but it's not even a real tree anymore.....sob, I gotta stop now. You asked....thanks.
    bold is mine.

    Awesome post...hope you don't mind me embolding that one very important part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goatboy View Post
    Any chance of you dividing your text into a bunch of paragraphs? I like what you wrote, but had to stop after maybe 1/4 of the way down because it's just too difficult to read.
    Done
    Waiting for Godot Micechat.com

  15. #105

    • Sorcerer Supreme Bean
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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    EXCEPT when they absolutely need to do the mandatory maintenance (that's what you said). All they need to do is put up the barriers and tarps.
    I dont understand what you're getting at, should they just let the rides rot then? Should the park be constantly filled with tarps and barriers because theres no longer non crowded times to do maintenance? Fairly sure they get plenty of complaints even when the minimum is closed since its always busy now and someones always going to be dissapointed X is closed

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    Hmm.. you accepted my assumptions by agreeing the locals will buy the 1 or 2 day tickets and that's it.

    You somehow think this means Disney haven't lost any money. If someone didn't buy the higher priced AP, Disney certainly lost that money for the year.
    Again, thats not what I said, you're putting words in my mouth, you provided the scenario, I expanded on it to continue the debate, but I never accepted it as 'truth'

    Its getting hard to debate the cherry-picking and strawmen you keep putting up

    And I dont believe they'd lose the money you say they would, theyd gain it somewhere else, most likely by selling more single day tickets.
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
    -Dr. Strange

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