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  1. #106

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The Al Lutz MiceAge updates have reported Disney management's concern about how much less APers spend on food and merchandise relative to tourists, and how much more that APers contribute to the overcrowding of the DLR.

    There's simply no question that Disneyland was not designed to withstand a continual assault by a million locals whose Annual Passports can get them entry for pennies on the dollar virtually anytime they wish. There's no question that the AP program, as currently implemented by Disney, is out of control and is contributing to the decline in perceived value of a visit to Disneyland that is being experienced by many.

    "Bogus?" Thousand of posts on this forum over the last eight years, documenting the AP program's impact on Disneyland's infrastructure and value to the customer, say otherwise.
    This always strikes me as a silly assumption. Disney is one of the greatest capitalist organizations in the history of mankind. As a company they are better at making money than nearly anyone else. The idea that a handful of people on a message board know more about what's good for Disney's bottom line than Disney does is laughable on its face.

    Furthermore I've been reading the exact same complaints about the AP program on forums for more than a decade. This is funny because in that time the AP program has been expanded (monthly payments) and the parks are more popular than ever. Overcrowded? Perhaps, but obviously not so much that people are staying home. The parks regularly reach capacity on holidays and special events and as many have mentioned, the "off season" is beginning to shrink. Which means, of course, that the parks are more popular and not less.

    What I'm saying is that Disney's continued support of the AP system combined with the rising attendance for the parks is far more evidence for APs to continue than thousands of internet message boards posts are against it.

  2. #107

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post

    What I'm saying is that Disney's continued support of the AP system combined with the rising attendance for the parks is far more evidence for APs to continue than thousands of internet message boards posts are against it.
    Back in the early 90's Burger King decided to charge just $1.00 for their premium hamburger (The Whopper).

    Owners of individual franchises were incensed...the sandwich cost them more than a buck to make; but the thinking from corporate was that it was worth the loss in order to grow the customer base.

    Even after several years and millions of dollars in consultants telling them it wasn't working they continued on......and bit by bit the Whopper got less tasty (the franchises were cutting corners to stop some of the bleeding).

    Eventually smarter people got the reigns of the company....but even they had a hard time pulling the trigger on the $1.00 Whopper out of fear that the public would stop coming to their establishments altogether.

    This is what is happening with Disneyland........the AP program is like a cancer.....even though it is killing the park; to get rid of it might prove to be equally fatal (or, at least that is their fear).
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  3. #108

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    I dont understand what you're getting at, should they just let the rides rot then? Should the park be constantly filled with tarps and barriers because theres no longer non crowded times to do maintenance? Fairly sure they get plenty of complaints even when the minimum is closed since its always busy now and someones always going to be dissapointed X is closed
    I'm arguing with your contradictions that you don't see.

    You're not making sense.

    Again, thats not what I said, you're putting words in my mouth, you provided the scenario, I expanded on it to continue the debate, but I never accepted it as 'truth'

    Its getting hard to debate the cherry-picking and strawmen you keep putting up

    And I dont believe they'd lose the money you say they would, theyd gain it somewhere else, most likely by selling more single day tickets.
    You don't agree with me. That is clear. I'm not putting any words into your mouth. I read it and it is clear that your writing needs to be improved upon.

    However, you just don't see how eliminating the APs means Disney will get less money out of the regulars, the locals, and the people that just want to go to Disney as much as they want.

    Even if you remove the APs, you won't replace the revenue stream. It doesn't exist if there is only one way to get the tickets. That's why Disney's ticket policies has a wide selection.

    How many people are willing to buy a $92 ticket multiple times?

    These are Disney tickets policy. Other than the single ticket, the remaining tickets seem like a discount over multiple days. Will Disney have to cut them back too? No more discounts. Pricing them out is okay to preserve the park?

  4. #109

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    I'm arguing with your contradictions that you don't see.

    You're not making sense.
    No you're only arguing contradictions that you yourself only see.

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    You don't agree with me. That is clear. I'm not putting any words into your mouth. I read it and it is clear that your writing needs to be improved upon.

    However, you just don't see how eliminating the APs means Disney will get less money out of the regulars, the locals, and the people that just want to go to Disney as much as they want.

    Even if you remove the APs, you won't replace the revenue stream. It doesn't exist if there is only one way to get the tickets. That's why Disney's ticket policies has a wide selection.

    How many people are willing to buy a $92 ticket multiple times?
    No, you're making statements that I never said, or even implied that I would say, that's the essence of putting words in my mouth.

    How many people are willing? Well, the people that are willing to put down 300-700 all at once for an AP dont seem adverse to dropping large amounts of money for attendance.

    Perhaps your reading comprehension requires some review as well
    There is no right or wrong in this debate. It is simply a matter of perspective.
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  5. #110

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
    How many people are willing to buy a $92 ticket multiple times?
    There would be no need for a $92 ticket sans an AP program. The one day ticket is only that expensive to make the AP look like a better bargain than it already is.

    Realistically, if Disney just sold a one day ticket and nothing more the price would likely be around $40 - $60.
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  6. #111

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wren View Post
    No you're only arguing contradictions that you yourself only see.
    I did say you didn't see the contradiction. No wonder we're having a hard time.


    No, you're making statements that I never said, or even implied that I would say, that's the essence of putting words in my mouth.
    I'm making an argument. It isn't merely about putting words into your mouth, which I'm not doing.

    How many people are willing? Well, the people that are willing to put down 300-700 all at once for an AP dont seem adverse to dropping large amounts of money for attendance.

    Perhaps your reading comprehension requires some review as well
    Let's start over. That's an assumption. No more comments.

  7. #112

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    There would be no need for a $92 ticket sans an AP program. The one day ticket is only that expensive to make the AP look like a better bargain than it already is.

    Realistically, if Disney just sold a one day ticket and nothing more the price would likely be around $40 - $60.
    This is the truth of the $92. It is the minimum amount that Disney will extract from the customer. Any amount above this amount is gravy to Disney.

  8. #113

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    The other funny thing is the people who say "the AP program is killing the park" almost inevitably go multiple times per year themselves. I go once every two years on average at this point (no longer living in Southern California) and I certainly haven't noticed that the AP program is killing anything. It's a convenient, amorphous scapegoat that can be blamed for any and all problems with the park regardless of whether or not it is actually responsible.

    Also speculation about what prices would be is, again, silly. Disney is a well-oiled corporate machine at this point with decades of experience and data about running a theme park. They make some mistakes, sure, but the idea that they're leaving any significant amount of money on the table is more or less laughable. Look at the parks, Disney will try to charge you for almost anything they can get away with and you think they're losing money on the AP system?

  9. #114

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    There would be no need for a $92 ticket sans an AP program. The one day ticket is only that expensive to make the AP look like a better bargain than it already is.

    Realistically, if Disney just sold a one day ticket and nothing more the price would likely be around $40 - $60.
    The only way the ticket prices would drop to that level is if the parks emptied to a point where Disney no longer was drawing the level of attendance they felt necessary.

    There's no subterfuge on this one - park prices across the board have climbed over the years, and I don't see anyone in Disney HQ signing off on lowering the cost to match KBF - moreso when SFMM and USH ($67.99, $84 respectively) are both closer to Disney's pricepoint than Knott's.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  10. #115

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    So, DL is stupid expensive, the APs are killing the park, etc.
    YET

    It's still packed. Completely, absolutely packed.

    If DL is so expensive (I've said so myself) how come people don't stop coming?

    DL is a business, and Disney has hit a winning combination. Who cares if people feel the park is too expensive or that APers make the experience bad for other people (or viceversa). As long as the turnstiles keep spinning Disney will probably charge more and more... because they can.

  11. #116

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by fjhuerta View Post
    If DL is so expensive (I've said so myself) how come people don't stop coming?
    The real question isn't why people haven't stopped coming.

    The question is, given Disneyland's continued decline in service and maintenance, continued increase in prices, and (especially) continued increase in crowding, how much longer will its longtime visitors continue coming.

    Right now, after a certain number of AP visits, an APer's day at Disneyland becomes dirt cheap. Cheaper than a movie ticket. The only thing cheaper is the public park (which an increasing number of visitors treat Disneyland as), or hanging out at the local mall (ditto).
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
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  12. #117

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by fjhuerta View Post


    If DL is so expensive (I've said so myself) how come people don't stop coming?
    Because it isn't so expensive for everyone......
    For many people it's actually "incredibly" cheap......

    THEN: When Disneyland opened in 1955 the price of admission was $1.00.....if you wanted to experience the attractions it would cost you at least another $1.00 (for ten rides). That's $2.00(minimum) for a day of Disneyland fun.

    Adjusted for inflation that's $17.50

    NOW: Some people pay as little as $1.58*

    *499/315 Deluxe

    DL is a business, and Disney has hit a winning combination.
    But not a sustainable one (unless, 30 years from now, they too get a "too big too fail" bailout)


    Who cares if people feel the park is too expensive or that APers make the experience bad for other people (or viceversa).
    Most everyone here......the day we stop caring is the day Disney inc. needs to fear.


    As long as the turnstiles keep spinning Disney will probably charge more and more... because they can.
    Obviously..........now read the story of the Once-ler for a clearer understanding of where I am coming from
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  13. #118

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Dividing an AP's price by 365 is a bit silly given that there are probably less than a dozen people who go that many times per year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The real question isn't why people haven't stopped coming.

    The question is, given Disneyland's continued decline in service and maintenance, continued increase in prices, and (especially) continued increase in crowding, how much longer will its longtime visitors continue coming.

    Right now, after a certain number of AP visits, an APer's day at Disneyland becomes dirt cheap. Cheaper than a movie ticket. The only thing cheaper is the public park (which an increasing number of visitors treat Disneyland as), or hanging out at the local mall (ditto).
    The difference is that people are actually, in reality, flocking to the park in greater numbers, whereas the idea that at some nebulous point in the future they will stop doing so is just an opinion. It's fine to have opinions on this but yours seems to be contrary to the reality of what's actually happening.

  14. #119

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by The International View Post
    Dividing an AP's price by 365 is a bit silly given that there are probably less than a dozen people who go that many times per year.
    No one has done that here. I divided it up by 315

    Even if someone were to go only every 10-12 days (and I assure you, there are thousands who do at least this) they are still paying less per visit than what people paid back in Walt's day.
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  15. #120

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    Re: Priced out of Disneyland? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The real question isn't why people haven't stopped coming.

    The question is, given Disneyland's continued decline in service and maintenance, continued increase in prices, and (especially) continued increase in crowding, how much longer will its longtime visitors continue coming.

    Right now, after a certain number of AP visits, an APer's day at Disneyland becomes dirt cheap. Cheaper than a movie ticket. The only thing cheaper is the public park (which an increasing number of visitors treat Disneyland as), or hanging out at the local mall (ditto).
    What was the time when DL's maintenance was at its peak? I'd say it was during Matt Ouimett's time. And IIRC, prices were pretty fair back then.

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