Disney's CALIFORNIA Adventure

[MiklCraw4d]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer

OK it's pretty unrealistic theyll bulldoze the park and build Westcot. That would be pretty cool but I didn't list that option cause it aint gonna happen people... Wake up and smell that burnt coffee odor when you walk through DCA's gates...

I'm sure there is not a chance in a billion that they'd decide to bulldoze DCA in favor of Westcot, but I still dream of it in times of quiet.

I think a more practical approach would be to convert it along the lines of the Disney's America proposal, combining the ideas from that park with the few successful elements that already exist. After all, G.R.R. is pretty much taken directly from the original America park design.

The key to this would be to not build any massive new attractions until a park-wide redesign could be agreed on. When you build something like a Tower of Terror it sort of locks you into that theme and those sightlines.

I've spent a while looking at Google Earth & park maps and have devised a sketchy plan as to what I would do if I were running the show. I've never been to DCA (or, sadly, Disneyland) so everything I know is from obsessing on info over the net. I think I have a good idea of the layout from available info.

I can't tell if there's a berm, though. There should be a berm. I'm a big believer in the berm.

First to go would be Bug's Land. The elimination of the farm and the 'Tough to be a Bug' building would allow the 'hub' to be pushed farther back and thus provide a more beckoning view from the gate. This would provide a more traditional 'central axis' for the park to run along. In addition, I would extend the lagoon northward to cover the stage area (and Jellyfish/Zephyr) and eastwards, submerging TortillaLand. The lagoon would extend from its current western barrier, across TortillaLand, and skirt the northern border of the Timon lot. This would allow greater use of the waterfront without massive theme clash.

The park's entrance street would be colonially themed, like America's proposed "President's Square" or WDW's Liberty Square. There were concepts like this developed for DL since Walt's day so I think it'd be nice to finally get it built. I'm not sure what the central weenie would be, but I'm sure WDI could think of something worthy. This would be an opportunity for DLR to have an attraction like the Hall of Presidents or, even better, a reimagining of the American Adventure from EPCOT. A dark ride or two based on the Disney versions of American legends (Sleepy Hollow, Paul Bunyan, John Henry) would be nice as well.

Travelling clockwise:

The Hollywood area should remain. It should not, however, exceed its current footprint (it could push northwards if need be). The transition between it and the colonial street would be dodgy, but it could be pulled off. The land itself should be thouroughly rethemed, even more than it already has. There's a lot of wasted or poorly used space there, and a lot of great creative opportunities within the theme. An innovative new Great Movie Ride could be very cool.

The wedge of land between the central weenie and the TOT (currently occupied by Bug-related activites) would be the Civil War village planned for the America park. This would skirt the northern shore of the expanded lagoon, allowing the Civil War fort and water show. The 1800's theme would be a smooth transition both from the late 1700's entrance street and across the central axis into the GRR area.

Depending on space issues, it would be possible to push the Civil War village southwards and have another thematic transition on its northeastern side into a 1800's Southwestern/Spanish Colonial area. This would be behind the Playhouse Disney/Animation buildings and would hopefully provide a thematic buffer between the Civil War area and the TOT. Possibilities for Davy Crockett/other shenanigans, and would be a historically sound link to the Civil War era.

Around the east edge of the lagoon (south of the TOT) and curving around the southern shore would be the Industrial Revolution. At its northernmost edge it would represent the late 1800's, and as it curved around the lagoon (and through the Timon lot) it would approach the 1930's. This could feature the America park's ironworks coaster, and any other number of adventures.

The western edge of the Industrial Revolution transitions into the American Waterfront. This represents New York City from the 1930's-50's and extends to touch the current eastern edge of Paradise Pier.

Now comes the tough call: bulldoze *all* of Paradise Pier, or just part? Tough call. I've decided to keep at least Screamin, the Sun Wheel, and the Carousel. All carny booths are OUT. The entire area is rethemed to a Coney Island-type park of 1940's NYC. This provides a transition to the American Waterfront on the east and new development on the west. Basically, everything within the footprint of Screamin is safe, everything else is gone. I would add perhaps two small dark rides and try to bring the area into a cohesive whole.

On the western edge of Screamin, stretching from where the Orange now sits to the Golden Dreams theater, would be a variation of International Street. This would celebrate the immigrant experience in America. Thematically it would vary from San Francisco (at the Golden Dreams end) to NYC (the end closest to Paradise Pier). Roughly where the Jellyfish now sit would be a recreation of Ellis Island, furthering the NYC theme of that end and allowing them to include that planned attraction from Disney's America.

Remembering that the lagoon would be wider than it is now, International Street would fold in and out of a large area currently comprising the Redwood Creek Trail, Mullholland Madness, a load of carny bunk, and possibly some of the Grand Californian's parking/lawn area. This would allow attractions themed to the cultures represented here; a few thrills and some stories from overseas cultures.

Passing through San Francisco, one would enter the current Grizzly Rapids area which would undergo minimal retheming to represent Native American cultures and the Lewis and Clark exploration era of the early 1800's. This would transition well between the western cultural boom of San Franciso and the Civil War/Liberty Square areas to the east and north.

Finally, you have Condor Flats, which according to the original Disney's America plans would become Victory Field. This would have a thematic overlay and a great deal of plussing to bring it in line with a 1940's air base. This theme is debatable, depending on how WDI would want to treat Soarin'. There are several possibilities for change, or it could just remain as is. Or, it could be absorbed entirely into the GRR area.

So there you go. I spent *way* too much time on that. I certainly didn't set out to write a novel. If you've read this far, I'm amazed. I realize that this plan would be incredibly expensive but strangely enough, I've found myself getting really excited about this fictional park. I don't think it's too far-fetched a plan; no critical E-tickets go missing and I'm not suggesting they dynamite the TOT or anything like that. It would take a little bit of work to get done, but I think it would pay off.

So, I guess, if John L. wants to give me a call I'll catch a flight to Burbank and get to work

And I completely apologize for my lengthy flight of fancy!

[PragmaticIdealist]

Disney's America would only work by being in the shadow of the nation's capital, and, even then, I'm not so sure that the idea is valid in the form that it was presented.

"Disney's Adventure Park" is meaningless. Cheap thrills are not a theme. In fact, they are the antithesis of Disneyland.

A park devoted to Pixar is too limited. Pixar has only made six films that have been released to the public so far, and two of those are already being used at The Magic Kingdom. Furthermore, Pixar, itself, represents more of just a style than a true unifying idea.

The California idea was valid from the very beginning, but the decision to restrict the park to the contemporary was undue. Disney also needed to be very clear about whatever the company was wanting to say with the new park. To use Walt Disney's terms, the place should be a "museum of living facts" and a "community center".

California is a singularly Disneyesque and romantic place. Walt Disney might have never done all the things he did had California not existed, so there is the starting point.

Walt Disney is the quintessential California dreamer, so the new park should tell his story, as well as the stories of the other idealistic people who have been drawn to this place to pursue their own dreams and who continue to do so today.

The new park has the potential to do so much. It can renew Californians faith in themselves and in the future, and it can showcase to the rest of the world the great things that can be accomplished with a little idealism.

One of those things is, of course, Disneyland, itself, which, to me, is the realization of the ultimate Californian dream.

While Main Street, U.S.A. is everyone's hometown, but mostly Walt Disney's, the new park has the potential to belong, in some part, to the substantive years of Walt Disney's life and career. The park has to strengthen its concept, however, and avoid letting the fictional elements overtake the factual nature of the park.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by ah schucks

...but it looks like a larger majority of folks on MiceChat actually lean towards keeping the theme and improving what we already have!

Unsure about that.
As of this posting, 40 want it to stay the same, 35 want to change the theme and 10 say none of the above...

Originally Posted by DLResident

OMG, that is so funny.

I agree. The joke's funny every time I hear it.

[ah schucks]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Unsure about that.
As of this posting, 40 want it to stay the same, 35 want to change the theme and 10 say none of the above...

40 in one corner versus 35 in various corners? Hmm if this was an election DCA would win! So bleh!

You know largely my problem with the suggestion of rethemeing DCA to an America park is the location. California is not a place where people come to experiance historical patrotic type entertainment as a general rule (and yes someone will dig up an example to the contrary) BUT I give you example A- Knotts which used to do re-enactment battles which were soooo well attended they no longer do them.

Its not that a Disney's America wouldn't be great, I am not just sure it would great here or as an overlay to DCA.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by ah schucks

40 in one corner versus 35 in various corners? Hmm if this was an election DCA would win! So bleh!

lol!

The question is: 'Should DCA drop the California theme or not?'. 41 say no. 37 say yes. 10 say other things.

[Mac Daddy]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Westcot!

I'm with Gemini. I don't think they ever gave this idea enough serious thought.

Californialand in California is just plain goofy.

Or is it Anaheimland in Anaheim?

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist

Disney's America would only work by being in the shadow of the nation's capital, and, even then, I'm not so sure that the idea is valid in the form that it was presented.

"Disney's Adventure Park" is meaningless. Cheap thrills are not a theme. In fact, they are the antithesis of Disneyland.

A park devoted to Pixar is too limited. Pixar has only made six films that have been released to the public so far, and two of those are already being used at The Magic Kingdom. Furthermore, Pixar, itself, represents more of just a style than a true unifying idea.

The California idea was valid from the very beginning, but the decision to restrict the park to the contemporary was undue. Disney also needed to be very clear about whatever the company was wanting to say with the new park. To use Walt Disney's terms, the place should be a "museum of living facts" and a "community center".

California is a singularly Disneyesque and romantic place. Walt Disney might have never done all the things he did had California not existed, so there is the starting point.

Walt Disney is the quintessential California dreamer, so the new park should tell his story, as well as the stories of the other idealistic people who have been drawn to this place to pursue their own dreams and who continue to do so today.

The new park has the potential to do so much. It can renew Californians faith in themselves and in the future, and it can showcase to the rest of the world the great things that can be accomplished with a little idealism.

One of those things is, of course, Disneyland, itself, which, to me, is the realization of the ultimate Californian dream.

While Main Street, U.S.A. is everyone's hometown, but mostly Walt Disney's, the new park has the potential to belong, in some part, to the substantive years of Walt Disney's life and career. The park has to strengthen its concept, however, and avoid letting the fictional elements overtake the factual nature of the park.

Thank you for stating everything I was thinking but couldnt translate to words.

Disney's America doesnt have a place in California and it would never work here.

California Adventure has immense potential, and I don't think the park is dead or was dead even before it was built - it just wasn't given the opportunity to be great because the Imagineers were so limited with money and a egotistical Eisner creating parks "on the cheap."

I say keep the California theme. Just make it work like it should. California is one of the leading economies in the world and it has so much history and possibilities to become a romanitcized, idealized reality that Disney is known to create.

[XCLIPSE129]

My opinion on changing the name. Keep the name, but change the angle of the theming. The theme they picked throughout the park is sad and dull. Hollywood looks like old town Pasadena. When tourist come to the park theyre are looking for the "wow factor". I've been to Disney MGM Studios and that place is awesome. DCA needs to wow us... I rememebr going to the opening of DCA and wasn't to amazed (more confused) on what I was looking at. The front looks like a watered down toon town. I honestly like the large pond but needs some movement besides the waves, like a show or something. anyways I can go on and on about DCA. I love DCA why because its hardly ever crowded. I wish one day I can say I love DCA because it is a great Disney park. ok thats it my $.02 once again.

SO whens the next meet I actualyl want to talk and meet more MC peeps. Maybe a meet at DCA so Miss Christine can get her drink on... Or maybe i can buy a beer for Darkbeer. lol =)

[ah schucks]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

lol!

The question is: 'Should DCA drop the California theme or not?'. 41 say no. 37 say yes. 10 say other things.

yes but if the 37 and 10 who say change it can't agree on one theme and the majority of the vote lands in the one catagory, keep it- then California wins, if DCA haters can't get together on one theme that over powers the 41 then they loose! Yeah California theme!

[cellarhound]

I wouldn't mind the California theme provided it had better execution...

[tooncity]

I think the public's curiosity would be spiked by replacing the name of the place to something that is unique to Disney and isn't a clone of their other theme parks. Why not call it FANTASIA Park. I don't know if anybody has suggest this before, but You could still keep half of the current list of rides. Keep Hollywood. Keep the Boardwalk, with some tweaking. Then you could re-theme the other buildings to something more imaginative. Soarin' could be transformed during Christmas Season to a Soarin' with Santa Clause film. That would be fun, have to do something about the height limit so little kids could ride. Cirquie du Soleil extravaganza over the lake, acrobats, balloons, fireworks. Charge $25 the first year, until it gains some acceptance by the public. Start adding attractions and then start rasing entrance fees. Replace the California Letters with Fantasia Letters. It could work...maybe.

[inav]

I think the california theme has potential if done right. Instead of grizzly peak do half dome and a sierra nevada theme in that area.The challenge trail could be turned into a gold rush themed area with a mine train ride similar to the one at Knott's. They have two extra buildings[i don't know if they are rightnext to each other or not] in hollywood why not do rock'n'rollercoaster(so the track may have to be different but at least have the same elements(no lift hills mulltiple inversions ect.))They could also have walk of fame with stars(of curse it would have to be disney stars)The water front theme is a good idea and maybe have a replicaof the golden gate bridge go across the lagoon since they are demolishing the current one. Maybe add a replica mission(the missions were important in california's history). The theme has a lot of potential if they do it right

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

I like all these interesting perspectives. I like getting a sense of what the other MiceChatters think and what thier opinions might be but everyone keep in mind, your opinion is just that. An opinion. Steve Jobs, Bob Iger and John Lassitter and everyone else at Disney also get to have their opinion and they're going to do what they want to do any way. But we can still see what aspirations we each have for DCA.

[Doodle Duck]

It's Disney...it's IN California...it's an Adventure.

Keep the name but there's no need to keep the theme ABOUT California....that it's a Disney Adventure in California seems all encompassing to me.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Interesting ideas...

Does anybody have anything further about the Disney's America concept?

Although I doubt Iger, Lassiter and Jobs are thinking history based rides are the fix... Hopefully it will not be the Disney-Pixar Adventure park, and they won't continue on the path of mishmoshed Pixar rides. But that has been the trend.

And you know what, if they did the kiddies would be happy and the young families in tow will be glad their kids are happy... and the place will just continue to slide away from the Walt Disney touch.

I don't think Lassiter is going to let that happen but at least in my opinion that is the tide he will be swimming against.