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  1. #16

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I'm not so sure about that at all! The Nemo Subs have gone since 2007 without a major refurb, that's savings right there, typically high maintenance attractions require extensive yearly refurbs.
    I will check later for a source on this, but I remember reading that the original plan for the sub lagoon required a draining once every ten years. If that's the case, this draining (if they will be draining, we don't know) would be well ahead of that schedule. And the bulk for those original draining were repainting which should not be an issue now, so its definitely a curiosity as to what they are needing to do.

    The Nemo Subs aren't diesel powered anymore, diesel engines have a lot of moving parts, not so with a battery powered electric motor system.
    Yeah, but as I said before, it is far easier to find mechanics for a diesel boat engine than it is to find a mechanic for a customized underwater induction system. I would guess when factored in with the cost of fuel, it would be cheaper than the old sub's, but still miles above what other attractions costs.

    Not sure how many "track switches" Nemo has, but a lot, of the effects are continuously running, and there are more efficient ways to synchronize the subs effects with the location of the ride vehicle that don't involve mechanical switches.
    Track switches in this case are related to the actual track the subs ride on, and the switches that move the subs from storage areas to the ride path.

  2. #17

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayce View Post
    The subs have been the most expensive attraction to operate, I think it's slipped to #2 or #3 but it's still up there it's a shame that it has such a low hourly though put for guest capacity.
    The Nemo Subs costed some $$ to refurb and convert to electric in 2007-but on a yearly basis there isn't much to do with regards to ongoing maintenance, some attractions with possibly more maintenance:

    1. Train around the park, steam engines much more expensive to maintain than electric motors.
    2. Gas-powered Autopia requires a lot of maintenance, like the Subs, an electric version would cost more in upfront $$, but then would pay for itself over time as maintenance cost would plummet. There aren't mechanics working on the Subs motors every week.
    3. Indy
    4. Splash Mountain and its complex control system and sensors/gates.
    5. Star Tours has the cost of maintaining expensive motion simulators, though total cost and need for refurbs is nothing like Splash.
    6. Mark Twain maintenance, including keeping the wood in good condition.
    7. Jungle Cruise, animatronics more accessible but more of them and some of very large, horticulture costs, non-electric engines.

    Probably the Jacuzzi motors/animatronics in Pirates/Small World require more maintenance that the Subs on a weekly basis! Then you've got the plethora of rides like RSR that can go 101 when the ride triggers an e-stop, with Nemo, there is very little chance of an e-stop as you can't throw a purse outside the ride vehicle, hence less costs/headaches for the attraction going 101.

    Nemo is literally just electric boats that circle a glorified swimming pool.

    Maintenance workers in WDW talked-up the maintenance problems with 20,000K under the sea, even going as far as to stage a leaky sub, which lead to its closure there.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-21-2013 at 12:23 PM.

  3. #18

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The Nemo Subs costed some $$ to refurb and convert to electric in 2007-but on a yearly basis there isn't much to do with regards to ongoing maintenance, some attractions with possibly more maintenance:

    [...]
    I don't know about that... All the little "sub"-totals might add up.

    Realistically though, I suspect that the drive systems, extra inspection costs, and the general costs associated with working mechanics underwater make the subs rather expensive to operate. I wonder if the insurance is higher. Even if the costs aren't that high, the attraction's capacity is so low that the cost/ride must be significantly higher than the super-high volume people eaters like Pirates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Finding Nemo .. 9-10 month refurb?? .. that's a big surprise. I wonder what has to happen there.
    Glowing away forever? I can dream...

  4. #19

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I will check later for a source on this, but I remember reading that the original plan for the sub lagoon required a draining once every ten years. If that's the case, this draining (if they will be draining, we don't know) would be well ahead of that schedule. And the bulk for those original draining were repainting which should not be an issue now, so its definitely a curiosity as to what they are needing to do.
    The paint impregnanted with glass beads made from recycled glass was meant to last longer, not indefinitely, much like the Matterhorn paint job though the Matterhorn uses much larger glass beads. Some of the cosmetic stuff in the ride is kinda faded.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    (if they will be draining, we don't know)
    About a 9 month refurb . . . you can be pretty sure they'll drain the water, which isn't as much as it looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post

    Yeah, but as I said before, it is far easier to find mechanics for a diesel boat engine than it is to find a mechanic for a customized underwater induction system. I would guess when factored in with the cost of fuel, it would be cheaper than the old sub's, but still miles above what other attractions costs.
    The induction systems don't need the regular maintenance that a diesel engine would, and at any rate, these systems are becoming more common and Disney's in-house team is more than capable of keeping them running. We're talking simple stuff that is relatively easy to replace like transformers and batteries, and the pick-up units in the Subs don't have moving parts, so much, much less of an issue that diesel subs.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Track switches in this case are related to the actual track the subs ride on, and the switches that move the subs from storage areas to the ride path.
    Remember that the Nemo Subs displace water and have buoyancy, so it's not like the track switches see the sort of mechanical strain that the monorail experiences, so they don't need to be built to the same specs, though they need to resist the chemicals in the water. They probably have a pretty long life span as is, not including the actuators.

  5. #20

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Maybe they are closing Nemo for so long to retrofit the show building. If they were actually going to change or take-out Autopia, re-route the Monorail, or re-use the People Mover tracks they might need to make changes to the subs building first.


    Then again, maybe it'll just take them nine months to replace some projectors, add some new movie references, and do a paint-job.

  6. #21

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    I don't know about that... All the little "sub"-totals might add up.

    Realistically though, I suspect that the drive systems, extra inspection costs, and the general costs associated with working mechanics underwater make the subs rather expensive to operate. I wonder if the insurance is higher. Even if the costs aren't that high, the attraction's capacity is so low that the cost/ride must be significantly higher than the super-high volume people eaters like Pirates.
    Yeah, they might have to sub-contract out a lot of the work for the refurb!

    Technically and logistically, the Subs are boats that just happen to have these little windows below the water line, so the insurance costs are probably the same for the Mark Twain. If the Nemo subs "sunk", likely nobody would drown as you just stand-up, sadly guests have drown on the rivers of america, so the canoes probably contribute more to insurance costs than Nemo.

    Jungle Cruise, Mark Twain, and many other attractions have animatronics that are exposed to the elements, and Nemo Subs have relatively few of those as projections are heavily utilized.

    Pirates has a whole lot of animatronics, and some of them have complex motions, unlike some foam scuba divers in the Subs, Pirates animatronics also have elaborate clothing that needs to be replaced, so higher maintenance costs on Pirates in terms of animatronics, plus Pirates has an air-conditioned show building, jacuzzi water jets and underwater conveyor belts, the subs just have the single motor in terms of conveyance. The more parts that can be broken, the higher the maintenance costs, in general.

    For little kids, who might not want to ride Pirates, Nemo is heads above shoulders in capacity when compared to some Fantasyland dark rides. There's also the argument that not every ride should be built for the masses, rides with low capacity like the Jungle Cruise/Storybook are longtime crowd favorites that are at the heart of Disneyland, yet don't have huge hourly capacity.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-21-2013 at 01:35 PM.

  7. #22

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by MouseintheMoon View Post
    Maybe they are closing Nemo for so long to retrofit the show building. If they were actually going to change or take-out Autopia, re-route the Monorail, or re-use the People Mover tracks they might need to make changes to the subs building first.


    Then again, maybe it'll just take them nine months to replace some projectors, add some new movie references, and do a paint-job.
    There's a lot that could be done with the ride, especially as Pixar might like to think ahead with regards to Finding Dory.

    The electric motors (and lack of oil, diesel, and other mechanical fluids used in the Old Subs) might allow for some new effects, such as replacing the chemically treated water with aquarium grade water and adding live fish, something which wasn't possible with the old Subs.

    There's also the possibility of testing out some underwater glowing plant effects by modifying some of the tech which apparently will go into Avatarland, maybe a night time version of the Nemo Subs?

  8. #23

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    heh so Nemo is officially being taken down for refurb...Granted the cast members (myself included) knew months ago that it was next. It REALLY needs it as we haven't been able to run the full 8 subs in a LONG time.
    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I'm not so sure about that at all! The Nemo Subs have gone since 2007 without a major refurb, that's savings right there, typically high maintenance attractions require extensive yearly refurbs. The Nemo Subs aren't diesel powered anymore, diesel engines have a lot of moving parts, not so with a battery powered electric motor system. And while people sometimes complain about Nemo's low capacity compared to rides like Pirates, the attraction hasn't had a major refurb in six years.Also, projector bulb costs should no longer be an issue as digital projectors with LED light sources which outlive the projector's lifespan are now available.Nemo is a "green" ride, IMHO, as it is electric, uses recycled glass for special paints, and with LED projectors will use a fraction of the electricity that it once did. It was built to be relatively low maintenance, and it seems to have fulfilled that promise brilliantly. In terms of filtering water, the thing is basically a big swimming pool.Inductive charging systems aren't difficult to maintain, and are relatively easy and cheap to build. There's aren't any moving parts, car manufacturers are looking at using them for home charging of electric vehicles, Nissan 2014 will have induction charging, and in the future inductive chargers might be put at intersections/Walmarts/home to continuously charge EVs.Not sure how many "track switches" Nemo has, but a lot, of the effects are continuously running, and there are more efficient ways to synchronize the subs effects with the location of the ride vehicle that don't involve mechanical switches.They probably have a list of stuff to work on, and will take advantage of the downtime to make repairs/upgrades on several systems/effects.That's what the Simba parking lot is for ;-)
    oh trust me when what he said was true. Nemo is VERY expensive to operate. Factor in that the hourly counts for the ride aren't good at all and it's hard to keep things going what with everything it takes to run it. You need to look at it from the big picture as opposed to all the small things. Originally it was meant to be axed fully but for now it's just a refurb. Random but since someone brought it up, Space won't go down until possibly after the 60th and that's to make the line fully wheelchair accessible. ...As I see it

  9. #24

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric5675 View Post
    Hahahaha it states the second floor of the Starcade is opening up New Year's Day...
    I found that interesting as well. I call BS, but we'll see.
    Favorite Ride: Tower of Terror

  10. #25

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernoman View Post
    heh so Nemo is officially being taken down for refurb...Granted the cast members (myself included) knew months ago that it was next. It REALLY needs it as we haven't been able to run the full 8 subs in a LONG time. oh trust me when what he said was true. Nemo is VERY expensive to operate. Factor in that the hourly counts for the ride aren't good at all and it's hard to keep things going what with everything it takes to run it. You need to look at it from the big picture as opposed to all the small things. Originally it was meant to be axed fully but for now it's just a refurb. Random but since someone brought it up, Space won't go down until possibly after the 60th and that's to make the line fully wheelchair accessible. ...As I see it
    Maybe from a staffing level Nemo looks expensive to run, but there are other attractions that are more expensive run. Nemo requires a lot of staffing, as does Jungle Cruise and Storybook, the train, and many other rides.

    Typically, attractions that get a top-to-bottom refurb for nine months stick around, and given that Nemo 2 is coming out, it is relatively cheap when you look at the promotion budgets for films.

    Miceage said that a top expense was the bulbs for the projectors at a cost of tens of thousands a month, well, problem solved as they've got digital projectors with LED light sources that last longer than the machine.

    The Subs have been around for most of Disneyland's existence at this point, and they're cheaper to run than ever thanks to the induction track and LED projectors, and they feature the number 1 Pixar film of all-time when you take adjustments for inflation. As the Nemo Subs have been operating for over six years at this point without a major refurb, the attraction has done more than fairly well.

    I'm not sure where you get your info, but you also said that they tested electric cars for the Autopia in Disneyland, not true as they already have an electric Autopia in Hong Kong! And the Hong Kong Disneyland Autopia cars sure don't need to be plugged at noon!

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernoman View Post
    They have tried test cars with all electric but the batteries were too large and to hold a charge they would need to constantly be recharged middday so imagine about 100 plugs and all the juice it would take to keep them charged plus they lacked the power to even make it up the hills. Right now Honda is rolling in their own cars for Autopia so no Prius (Disney here loves Honda over Toyota which personally is a shame but I digress) but the engines are a bit better although for a while they couldn't stop as easily as the old chevron cars. sadly they didn't feel like forking over the money for all new cares just an improved engine inside an outdated look.


    With regards to comments on rechargeable batteries, I believe that a battery company first noticed that at Disneyland the batteries that were completely drained of power actually recharged better.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-21-2013 at 05:12 PM.

  11. #26

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    I found that interesting as well. I call BS, but we'll see.
    Somebody months ago told me that the Jan 1 opening means indefinite.




  12. #27

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
    I found that interesting as well. I call BS, but we'll see.
    They meant New Year's Day, 2018. Small typo, really.

    /sarcasm

  13. #28

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by MouseintheMoon View Post
    Maybe they are closing Nemo for so long to retrofit the show building. If they were actually going to change or take-out Autopia, re-route the Monorail, or re-use the People Mover tracks they might need to make changes to the subs building first.
    Here's hoping this is the winner!

  14. #29

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    An old Al update stated the subs are the most expensive ride to maintain. I have also heard this from multiple people as well. And a source at WDWMAGIC said

    "Spirited Star Wars News:

    (for DLR)

    Project appears to be finalized and Miceage/Dusty/Al looks like they got it right. Basically all of Tomorrowland with the exception of Buzz, Space Mountain, Star Tours (naturally) and the monorail will be leaving as part of a massive reskinning of the land. Ewoks and their forest home will take over the sub lagoon/Autopia area.

    multiple attractions, dining and retail will be part of this massive project, which is scheduled to begin late in the 60th Anniversary celebration (2015-2016)."~WDW1974

    So it is surprising that they would spend the $ to work on the subs when it looks likee they could be gone in just a couple years.

  15. #30

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Yeah, it would be weird to spend a lot on a ride they fully intend to retire in just a few years. I would wonder if whatever they are doing is critical maintenance that is needed to keep the ride alive until it's ready to be pulled out of Tomorrowland but would they really need half a year for that?

    Second guess: there's some sort of aquatic scene or world in the upcoming Star Wars film and they're keeping the subs alive - and reinforcing the building so stuff can be built over it - because they intend to retheme the attraction. I hope I'm totally wrong there.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

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