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  1. #31

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    I just had a vision of the subs turning into a Gungan City attraction with Jar Jar Binks.


    And then I threw up a bit in my mouth.
    Please... put Guardians of the Galaxy in Tomorrowland.













  2. #32

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Vault View Post
    An old Al update stated the subs are the most expensive ride to maintain. I have also heard this from multiple people as well. And a source at WDWMAGIC said

    "Spirited Star Wars News:

    (for DLR)

    Project appears to be finalized and Miceage/Dusty/Al looks like they got it right. Basically all of Tomorrowland with the exception of Buzz, Space Mountain, Star Tours (naturally) and the monorail will be leaving as part of a massive reskinning of the land. Ewoks and their forest home will take over the sub lagoon/Autopia area.

    multiple attractions, dining and retail will be part of this massive project, which is scheduled to begin late in the 60th Anniversary celebration (2015-2016)."~WDW1974

    So it is surprising that they would spend the $ to work on the subs when it looks likee they could be gone in just a couple years.
    Finding Dory is coming out in 2016, Disney is spending $$$ on a massive and comprehensive refurb which will last 9 months, and Tony Baxter, who has a window on Main Street, debunked this rumor flatly, so, common sense and people who have worked for the company say that the Subs aren't in danger of being removed anytime soon.

    The person regurgitating the rumor obviously has no info one way or the other as he/she says that the Ewok village "appears to be finalized" and that it "looks like they got it right."

    Again, common sense says no Ewoks in Episodes VII, VIII, and IX, and hence like no Ewok speeder bike attraction, along with the fact that the Nemo Subs aren't going anywhere and that Autopia remains a popular attraction, AND the fact that the monorail noodles over this area of Disneyland like spaghetti!

  3. #33

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Finding Dory is coming out in 2016, Disney is spending $$$ on a massive and comprehensive refurb which will last 9 months, and Tony Baxter, who has a window on Main Street, debunked this rumor flatly, so, common sense and people who have worked for the company say that the Subs aren't in danger of being removed anytime soon.

    The person regurgitating the rumor obviously has no info one way or the other as he/she says that the Ewok village "appears to be finalized" and that it "looks like they got it right."

    Again, common sense says no Ewoks in Episodes VII, VIII, and IX, and hence like no Ewok speeder bike attraction, along with the fact that the Nemo Subs aren't going anywhere and that Autopia remains a popular attraction, AND the fact that the monorail noodles over this area of Disneyland like spaghetti!
    When did Tony comment on the subs?

    It's just that when the same rumors come from different sources I think it might have a good chance of happening.

  4. #34

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Vault View Post
    An old Al update stated the subs are the most expensive ride to maintain. I have also heard this from multiple people as well. And a source at WDWMAGIC said . . .
    I believe the Al update you reference is where he said that they're spending tens of thousands of dollars on projector bulbs a month. Well, they now make relatively cheap digital projectors with an LED light source which lasts longer than the machine, hence no bulb to replace. The Nemo Subs don't have a ultra-high maintenance budget, and new technology has cut the cost of operating the attraction.

    No more diesel motors, no more ongoing projector bulb costs, though there are ways to make the standard bulbs lasts longer, that's not an issue these days with digital projectors.

    The Subs' backbone is still 1960's technology so the ride is still relatively low-tech, boats with windows below the water-line that are now powered by electric motors and an induction system, a whole lot less expensive that the old diesel engines. So the ride is mostly these boats and projections, it's not like Indy, or Splash, with these sophisticated computer systems that need equally sophisticated handling and maintenance. A lot of rides at Disneyland have their own treated water system, such as Pirates, Small World, Splash, so that isn't cost prohibitive.

    The Nemo Subs have a couple new show elements, such as the Angler fish, and like it's popular Orlando cousin, this effect might not always be working well. But, it doesn't cost huge sums of money to filter water and provide electricity on a daily basis, homeowners can, and do, maintain the water in their pools, similar concept with Nemo.

    If you had a big enough swimming pool, you could easily build your own personal Sub with a small underwater viewing area and buy $400 digital projectors for some scenes, and you could probably get something similar in feel to the Subs, assuming you could build some underwater sets. Geez, I could probably build a reasonable facsimile of the "Mine" seagulls and float it in a pool!

    Indy, Pirates, Small World, Haunted Mansion have a lot of animatronics, and more moving parts, and have maintenance needs that exceed those on the Nemo Subs. If you think a dinky boat with windows and an electric motor is high coast, what about running a boiler on a train? The costs of the Disneyland railroad maintenance easily exceed that of the Nemo subs.

  5. #35

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Vault View Post

    It's just that when the same rumors come from different sources I think it might have a good chance of happening.
    Or that there is "group think" in that certain fan sites are simply parroting certain fan generated rumors until it is hard to tell what is real and what isn't. A lot of fan sites have been publishing articles, and forum boards posting "insider" material, which is easily identifiable as false, yet has similar themes involving massive demolition and re-construction of existing areas of Disney theme parks, almost certainly because of the DCA project, which actually didn't demolish much, and perhaps out of the belief/hope that the rumors they start will become a reality.

  6. #36

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Or that there is "group think" in that certain fan sites are simply parroting certain fan generated rumors until it is hard to tell what is real and what isn't. A lot of fan sites have been publishing articles, and forum boards posting "insider" material, which is easily identifiable as false, yet has similar themes involving massive demolition and re-construction of existing areas of Disney theme parks, almost certainly because of the DCA project, which actually didn't demolish much, and perhaps out of the belief/hope that the rumors they start will become a reality.
    You remind me of Ross :P
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEsYdiA7OL0

  7. #37

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    The paint impregnanted with glass beads made from recycled glass was meant to last longer, not indefinitely, much like the Matterhorn paint job though the Matterhorn uses much larger glass beads. Some of the cosmetic stuff in the ride is kinda faded.
    The old submarine lagoon went down for draining and painting about every 10 years. I doubt that the glass infused paint has faded after only six years.

    The induction systems don't need the regular maintenance that a diesel engine would, and at any rate, these systems are becoming more common and Disney's in-house team is more than capable of keeping them running. We're talking simple stuff that is relatively easy to replace like transformers and batteries, and the pick-up units in the Subs don't have moving parts, so much, much less of an issue that diesel subs.
    The problem obviously isn't with moving parts. Yes inductive systems are pretty common now, and Disney has used them frequently, but Finding Nemo was the first one to use this custom built underwater induction system. As far as I know is still the only one at any Disney Park. Regular Maintenance may be at a minimum but it is not non-existent. Conduits, transformers and batteries all have to be inspected and maintained, much the same as a diesel engine. Unlike the previous incarnation, not only is equipment stored on each sub, but now also is present in the 1300 feet of track. And when these systems fail, the people required to repair them are highly specialized individuals. Do you know how much it costs to hire a union electrician? Try finding a union electrician that is certified to operate under water.

    Induction systems are also notoriously inefficient. This is a technology that has proven unreliable and inefficient in above ground applications, so imagine how much worse it is underwater.

    I also ran across this article from Disney, in which it seems to suggest that the motivation for upgrading from Diesel to Electric was driven mostly by the AQMD and less from cost savings:

    Quote Originally Posted by My Green Submarine
    "When Nemo became a hit, it was a natural show for the Submarine Voyage," says principal mechanical engineer Bill Willcox. "But we had to find a new way to resurrect these subs because the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) and other regulatory bodies have stringent emissions standards that we couldn't meet using small diesel or natural gas generators."

    The new rules may have restricted the use of conventional power sources, but there were no limitations to the teams imagination and, after diving into every imaginable — and no doubt a few unimaginable — options, they found a solution in what Bill says is a "new, old technology" called Inductive Power Transfer (IPT).

    Link to this article posted on MiceChat
    I think you're also getting slightly confused about something posted by Al. Al did not state that the Submarine Voyage was expensive due to the cost of the projector bulbs, but merely implied that it was part of the overall operating cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Update 6/26/12 - Bon Voyage
    It's no secret that the Submarines have no friends in Anaheim’s operations departments, where they are disliked for their inefficiency, very low ride capacity (800 riders an hour at full speed), and very high cost of maintenance. The Submarines have the dubious distinction now of being the costliest attraction to operate and maintain at Disneyland, [emphasis added] and just the cost of replacement bulbs alone for the underwater projection screens can tally tens of thousands of dollars per month.

    Link to the article
    The point is of course that it's not necessarily the complexity of the maintenance that is adding to the cost. I agree that the complexity of the maintenance has probably decreased and takes less time overall to complete. the cost though is bring driven by the specialized nature of the work to be done. A union electrician costs more to keep on staff than a boat repairman. A union projectionist costs more to keep on staff than a man who fixes plastic fish attached to a string. The plumbers and filter operators are also in addition to the audio technicians required to work on each individual sub which also has a custom sound system.

    And yes Midway Mania uses projectors and Pirates uses water and filters, but no other ride in all of the Disney parks kingdoms utilize these in quite the same way as the submarines. and that individuality drives up the costs even more.

    And even if you don't want to accept that they are the costliest attraction to operate in the park, maybe you will admit that based on a cost per rider, the operating cost for the submarines is obscene. Rides that are just as costly like the Jungle Cruise and Railroad are all capable of ridership in excess of 1800 people per hour. The submarines reportedly see about 800 people per hour. Which means that all of this cost associated with running the attraction amounts to the same number of riders as the tea cups.

    That's bad.

  8. #38

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Maybe from a staffing level Nemo looks expensive to run, but there are other attractions that are more expensive run. Nemo requires a lot of staffing, as does Jungle Cruise and Storybook, the train, and many other rides.


    Typically, attractions that get a top-to-bottom refurb for nine months stick around, and given that Nemo 2 is coming out, it is relatively cheap when you look at the promotion budgets for films.


    Miceage said that a top expense was the bulbs for the projectors at a cost of tens of thousands a month, well, problem solved as they've got digital projectors with LED light sources that last longer than the machine.


    The Subs have been around for most of Disneyland's existence at this point, and they're cheaper to run than ever thanks to the induction track and LED projectors, and they feature the number 1 Pixar film of all-time when you take adjustments for inflation. As the Nemo Subs have been operating for over six years at this point without a major refurb, the attraction has done more than fairly well.


    I'm not sure where you get your info, but you also said that they tested electric cars for the Autopia in Disneyland, not true as they already have an electric Autopia in Hong Kong! And the Hong Kong Disneyland Autopia cars sure don't need to be plugged at noon!





    With regards to comments on rechargeable batteries, I believe that a battery company first noticed that at Disneyland the batteries that were completely drained of power actually recharged better.

    I get my info from the fact that I am a Nemo and Autopia (former trainer) cast member. I'm not going to go into all the specifics because again you need to look at the big picture and it all boils down to capacity vs costs. 800 is a generous number. the target count (again this is under IDEAL situations) is 850 with 8 subs. Nemo only runs 8 during peak IF they have them all ready for use. over the past year they at best have only had 7 with the 8th sub in dry dock backstage getting quick refurbs. take note of this should you be in the queue and see how many they're running because 90% of the time it's usually only 6. 7 is inefficient because that 7th boat is at rear dock where you place at minimum 3-4 CMs to handle one sub every 15 min. that's again inefficient.

    At the standard 6 subs the capacity is at BEST (again under ideal conditions) 675 an hour! that's VERY low for what the costs are for this attraction. The only reason it's not getting axed for now is because Finding Nemo is such a popular movie that many love. Sooner or later it will get axed...it's been coming close to it.

    Now you brought up my old Autopia quote. Yes they did do some small Autopia tests. remember that Hong Kong operates differently under a different set of laws in a different country over the US. If it were that easy why didn't they just bring them over from the get go? because it boils down to money and at the time a contract under Chevron which is a GAS company. Yes the contract is over but things have been changing since that quote you added I made.

    Back in August, A Honda Autopia car took off without any acceleration pushed nearly taking out a cast member. Since then all Honda cars have been pulled off and are no longer allowed to be used until further notice. Right now the state of how to handle these cars is in question with Disney and Honda and the attraction has been running at reduced capacity since then. What does this have to do with anything? Well again is boils down to costs and what is efficient to use. Disney didn't see a need to rework Autopia because they see it as more cost efficient to overlay what was there with something like semi new cars as opposed to making from the ground up an attraction that uses all electric cars. if it were that easy and cheap, it would have been done already.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    The point is of course that it's not necessarily the complexity of the maintenance that is adding to the cost. I agree that the complexity of the maintenance has probably decreased and takes less time overall to complete. the cost though is bring driven by the specialized nature of the work to be done. A union electrician costs more to keep on staff than a boat repairman. A union projectionist costs more to keep on staff than a man who fixes plastic fish attached to a string. The plumbers and filter operators are also in addition to the audio technicians required to work on each individual sub which also has a custom sound system.
    Don't forget Nemo has a team of divers they need for anything that needs to be done overnight! those men don't come cheap either!

    ...As I see it

  9. #39

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    The old submarine lagoon went down for draining and painting about every 10 years. I doubt that the glass infused paint has faded after only six years.
    Some of the plastic show elements have faded.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post

    The problem obviously isn't with moving parts. Yes inductive systems are pretty common now, and Disney has used them frequently, but Finding Nemo was the first one to use this custom built underwater induction system. As far as I know is still the only one at any Disney Park. Regular Maintenance may be at a minimum but it is not non-existent. Conduits, transformers and batteries all have to be inspected and maintained, much the same as a diesel engine.
    Actually, no, you don't have to inspect these systems on a frequent basis and they don't require the level of maintenance of diesel system as there are no moving parts. They have diagnostics that show how the system is running. Similarly, nobody is going out and every week inspecting the monorail's busbar to make sure they're still there and transmitting power.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    but Finding Nemo was the first one to use this custom built underwater induction system. As far as I know is still the only one at any Disney Park.
    Well, I'd be happy to inform you that Aquatopia in Tokyo uses inductive charging in an aqueous/underwater environment, but it really doesn't matter as the magnetic fields work well in water or air. Oh, and the NextGen boat system uses inductive charging for the boats. Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    And when these systems fail, the people required to repair them are highly specialized individuals. Do you know how much it costs to hire a union electrician? Try finding a union electrician that is certified to operate under water.
    As far as I know (and I know some folks who have worked on electrical projects at Disneyland), there haven't been any major problems with the inductive charging system at the Nemo Subs and the lagoon hasn't been drained since it opened in 2007. It's not like that old show scene on the old Subs were you've got divers working on something "under the ocean", Nemo's track/charging system was built to last.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Induction systems are also notoriously inefficient. This is a technology that has proven unreliable and inefficient in above ground applications, so imagine how much worse it is underwater.
    Again, magnetic fields amazingly pass through water! Just as folks who have pacemakers that are charged via inductive charing, even if the efficiency is 70% (and it is much higher for new efficient inductive charging which is near 90%), it sure as heck beats the efficiency for an internal combustion engine such as a diesel engine which is actually less efficient as it produces more waste heat.

    Actually, the underwater environment is an advantage in terms of waste heat as water has a high heat capacity and acts as a heat sink. If you know that resistance goes down as temp goes down, there are distinct advantages to submerging such a power transfer system.

    It is not true that inductive tech has proven "unreliable and inefficient", improving efficiency from 70% to 90% and the introduction of this tech for charging cars on a mass scale means that this tech is the future, and yes, you do save in energy costs when you compare internal combustion to electric.

    Induction technology works, I've got a transformer in the power cord of my macbook and I don't disassemble it to make sure the coils are still there and inducing current each week, or even each month, or even each year, same general principle with the Nemo Subs and induction technology, the principle has been around for well over a hundred years . . . if there isn't corrosion, then the coils are OK.

    1885, that was when the first transformer was invented using "induction" technology, the principle is not new. Tesla dreamed up wireless power over a century ago, and its happening today.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    the cost though is bring driven by the specialized nature of the work to be done. A union electrician costs more to keep on staff than a boat repairman. A union projectionist costs more to keep on staff than a man who fixes plastic fish attached to a string. The plumbers and filter operators are also in addition to the audio technicians required to work on each individual sub which also has a custom sound system.
    Disneyland, as I already mentioned, has an electrical department which has handled any problem with the Subs, inductive charging systems are relatively low maintenance, doing constant repair work on diesel engines is more expensive. Also, Disney has "audio technicians", actually they're the same electricians, after a ride's soundtrack is complete, you don't have an audio-technician fine tunning it every month, and amazingly, speakers don't normally require weekly, or even monthly, maintenance.

    Also, there isn't anything such as a "union projectionist", again it is just replacing bulbs, now with the LED light source LED projectors that will work, basically, undisturbed for something like 10 to 15 years, and can be easily replaced, there is not a need for "union projectionists."
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-22-2013 at 08:42 AM.

  10. #40

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernoman View Post
    At the standard 6 subs the capacity is at BEST (again under ideal conditions) 675 an hour! that's VERY low for what the costs are for this attraction. The only reason it's not getting axed for now is because Finding Nemo is such a popular movie that many love. Sooner or later it will get axed...it's been coming close to it.
    There are plenty of rides in Fantasyland which have hourly ride counts similar to Nemo. The hourly counts for Nemo aren't a problem because families with little kids love the attraction, probably because Nemo the film was a big hit. Not every guest wants to ride Nemo, but for those that do, they can work it into their trip.

    I would note that the most inefficient and costly per trip attraction is the horse-drawn trolley on Main Street which has a lower capacity, and it costs a lot to take care of the horses, vet visits, feeding, and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernoman View Post

    Now you brought up my old Autopia quote. Yes they did do some small Autopia tests. remember that Hong Kong operates differently under a different set of laws in a different country over the US. If it were that easy why didn't they just bring them over from the get go? because it boils down to money and at the time a contract under Chevron which is a GAS company. Yes the contract is over but things have been changing since that quote you added I made.
    The laws of physics are the same in Hong Kong as in Anaheim. The Hong Kong Autopia works well, and there isn't a need to "test" any sort of battery setup on Disneyland's Autopia as the technology is already on the shelf and ready to go. They'd have to install a similar inductive charging system in Disneyland, shutting down the Autopia for a while, and the new cars wouldn't have the same "smell" or feel as the old Autopia, but the Hong Kong Autopia is thought to be the superior version of the Autopia.

    I think the real reason Autopia hasn't be upgraded is the same reason why Alice has had a tarp and scaffolding for many years, they haven't made enough investment in Disneyland, and if they put in inductive charging/electric cars, they'd probably want to take advantage of the downtime and put in a new skin for the Autopia.

    They also don't generally test new ride vehicles much in Disneyland, maybe you meant Glendale? When did this test happen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infernoman View Post

    Don't forget Nemo has a team of divers they need for anything that needs to be done overnight! those men don't come cheap either!

    ...As I see it
    There aren't divers in the Nemo lagoon every night, and other attractions with water ways use "divers" to fish out stuff that guests have dropped. Also said divers aren't going to great depths, hence the cost isn't as much as it would be if you were hiring folks to underwater weld an oil rig hundreds of feet under the surface.

    And at Disney, they're on staff:

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/diver...elf-water.html

    I'm thinking world of color is much, much, more labor intensive that the Subs.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-22-2013 at 08:16 AM.

  11. #41

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    I believe the Al update you reference is where he said that they're spending tens of thousands of dollars on projector bulbs a month. Well, they now make relatively cheap digital projectors with an LED light source which lasts longer than the machine, hence no bulb to replace. The Nemo Subs don't have a ultra-high maintenance budget, and new technology has cut the cost of operating the attraction.
    You've repeated this on every discussion about the subs over the last two years. When exactly did they change WDI created uber-expensive proprietary projectors with these insanely cheap brand spanking new off the shelf that anyone could buy LED projectors? I'd imagine that something on that scale (reworking the entire projection system of a ride based completely around them) would take, I don't know, a multi-month closure, which has been stated many many many many many times has not occurred.


    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Also, there isn't anything such as a "union projectionist", again it is just replacing bulbs, now with the LED light source LED projectors that will work, basically, undisturbed for something like 10 to 15 years, and can be easily replaced, there is not a need for "union projectionists."

    Local 33, IATSE Local 33 - Stagehands and Projectionist in Hollywood and Los Angeles.

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by lightofdarkness View Post
    You've repeated this on every discussion about the subs over the last two years. When exactly did they change WDI created uber-expensive proprietary projectors with these insanely cheap brand spanking new off the shelf that anyone could buy LED projectors? I'd imagine that something on that scale (reworking the entire projection system of a ride based completely around them) would take, I don't know, a multi-month closure, which has been stated many many many many many times has not occurred.


    Local 33, IATSE Local 33 - Stagehands and Projectionist in Hollywood and Los Angeles.

    Projectionists jobs are disappearing due to the advent of digital/filmless projection technology, and as a result of low-maintenance LED digital projectors, the cost of maintaining projection technology has plummeted, many former projectionists have had their hours cut drastically as there is little to do, it is more of a computer tech job now with the digital projectors.

    Individual projectors can be swapped out for digital versions on the 3rd shift as they basically just loop a video clip, there has been some experimentation with projectors on the ride after it opened. The big hurdle with Nemo was developing the glass which is transparent, but which you can project an image onto it and it doesn't look washed out. Digital projection technology is getting cheaper every year . . .

    The Runco Q-750 is $14,000, and the “lamp-less” LED light source lasts the lifetime of the projector, I’m thinking it would last 7+ years for Nemo, maybe 15 years, they just need to switch out all the projectors and do testing. The new lamp-less projectors also use something like 75% less power than the traditional ones, and they probably have better control of image quality.


    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-22-2013 at 12:05 PM.

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post

    And even if you don't want to accept that they are the costliest attraction to operate in the park, maybe you will admit that based on a cost per rider, the operating cost for the submarines is obscene. Rides that are just as costly like the Jungle Cruise and Railroad are all capable of ridership in excess of 1800 people per hour. The submarines reportedly see about 800 people per hour. Which means that all of this cost associated with running the attraction amounts to the same number of riders as the tea cups.

    That's bad.
    The Nemo Subs are a quality ride experience lasting much longer than the tea cups, we're talking 13 minutes for Nemo, and much less for the tea cups, maybe 1 and a half minutes, give or take. Guests kinda expect to go on rides like Nemo where they see their favorite characters and are immersive. So, when you look at the amount of time spent inside a ride, is Nemo worth the maintenance budget for 8 tea cups given it is about 8 times longer?

    Tony Baxter got it right, IMHO, when he said that everything at Disneyland can't be a roller coaster, the Subs are a unique experience and 8,000 guests per day is about 3 million guests per year, totally worth it when it comes to keeping Nemo 2 relevant, since 2007, the Nemo Subs might have pushed through 18 million guests (given it has been going for almost 6.5 years).

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post

    And yes Midway Mania uses projectors and Pirates uses water and filters, but no other ride in all of the Disney parks kingdoms utilize these in quite the same way as the submarines. and that individuality drives up the costs even more.
    A water filter is a water filter, a projector is a projector. Nemo has a sterling maintenance record since it went online in 2007. If you buy an electric car, it might be a bit more expensive, but you have reduced maintenance and fuel costs over the longterm. More so with the Subs as it doesn't have tires that need to be replaced, it simply glides along sipping electricity. LED source projectors which run undisturbed for over a decade, without maintenance, are now available and relatively cheap, there aren't any big ongoing costs for the Subs, they'll probably keep going for another 7 years without any problems, inductive charging doesn't require conductor contact, you can completely isolate the pick-ups/coils from the elements.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-22-2013 at 01:13 PM.

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Sure, there are "plans" for a Star Wars Land to take over Tomorrowland but there have been all sorts of plans throughout the years that never came to be. Drawing is cheap -- construction is expensive.

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    Re: Winter refub schedule updated

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Tony Baxter got it right, IMHO, when he said that everything at Disneyland can't be a roller coaster, the Subs are a unique experience and 8,000 guests per day is about 3 million guests per year, totally worth it when it comes to keeping Nemo 2 relevant, since 2007, the Nemo Subs might have pushed through 18 million guests (given it has been going for almost 6.5 years).
    How is it worth spending the money on a ride that not even a quarter if the 16 million people that go to Disneyland will ever get to ride?

    It is certainly your perogative to not believe what those of us here have been telling you. I won't keep trying to convince you. But since you seem so convinced can you explain why exactly you think a nine month long refurbishment for a six year old attraction, which is the cheapest to operate, seems so normal? Since I am guessing you believe that they will be doing no maintenance on the attraction, they must be closing it out of sheer spite correct?

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