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  1. #151

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wilkinson View Post
    I'm not knock'n sentimentality. Nor am I disrespecting anyone. Also I don't think everything in the past is dated and everything new is better. I'm specifically referring to TL and explaining why I do not care if the sub and cars go away. If someone thinks differently that's fine with me. Lord knows people are not been shy about voicing their opinions regarding the closing of an attraction or the rumor of one they aren't interested in. As for the often heard complaint about movie-based attractions. Do people not understand that movie based attractions have existed since day one at Disneyland? Or that Walt Disney did exactly what people gave Eisner a hard time over. Sleeping Beauty Castle was originally going to called Snow White Castle but Disney had just released Sleeping Beauty and renamed it for marketing purposes.
    Yep. We very much understand that. In fact, for myself, being a former Fantasyland Attractions guy, I am very well aware of the movie element involved from the beginnings of the park. I worked 'em all. Pan, Toad, Snow White, Alice, Casey, etc.

    But, I'm also aware of those that aren't/weren't. Small World. Motorboat Cruise. Skyway.

    In addition, being a former Tomorrowland Attractions guy, as well (at the onset of my ten year career at Disney), I also knew that there were experiences in that land that did not rely on a movie either. Flight to the Moon/Mission to Mars, Carousel of Progress, PeopleMover, Space Mountain (which Walt had on the drawing board), and ATIS (which, I believe, had early renderings considered by Walt as well).

    So, yes. There were movie tie-ins. But Walt didn't stop there. He had plenty of attractions that weren't movie-based. And he also had those that had a didactic quality, as well.

  2. #152

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by CASurfer65 View Post
    Yep. We very much understand that. In fact, for myself, being a former Fantasyland Attractions guy, I am very well aware of the movie element involved from the beginnings of the park. I worked 'em all. Pan, Toad, Snow White, Alice, Casey, etc.

    But, I'm also aware of those that aren't/weren't. Small World. Motorboat Cruise. Skyway.

    In addition, being a former Tomorrowland Attractions guy, as well (at the onset of my ten year career at Disney), I also knew that there were experiences in that land that did not rely on a movie either. Flight to the Moon/Mission to Mars, Carousel of Progress, PeopleMover, Space Mountain (which Walt had on the drawing board), and ATIS (which, I believe, had early renderings considered by Walt as well).

    So, yes. There were movie tie-ins. But Walt didn't stop there. He had plenty of attractions that weren't movie-based. And he also had those that had a didactic quality, as well.
    Exactly, there was a good balance of movie and non-movie attractions.




  3. #153

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    It is not even an issue of balance between film and non-film. Of much more importance is why. Excepting Snow White's Scary Adventures, none of the Fantasyland dark rides would have been built the way decisions today are made. Story and experience should be the driving factors, not box office and merchandise sales.

  4. #154

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Is it just me or has nothing Al has said in the past year came true. Not sure I can trust anything he says. Cutting back or not he has said a lot of stuff is happening when nothing has happened

  5. #155

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo123 View Post
    Is it just me or has nothing Al has said in the past year came true. Not sure I can trust anything he says. Cutting back or not he has said a lot of stuff is happening when nothing has happened
    Things change a lot within Disney. Even when they say something is coming that is not a guarantee.

  6. #156

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemo123 View Post
    Is it just me or has nothing Al has said in the past year came true. Not sure I can trust anything he says. Cutting back or not he has said a lot of stuff is happening when nothing has happened
    First off Al has stopped doing the majority of the reports for some time due to health reasons and it now up to Dusty and the other heads of the site to get the dirt.

    The other piece I have to say is that DLR is making a killing right now with how packed the park is I think they can eat the operating cost of the subs considering that no mater how much they try, DCA, the Parks and Resorts division walks always with income at the end of each year (end of September)
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  7. #157

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    The thing that gets me is Disney has been so-called "eating" the cost of the subs for many, many years. Even in years before the super packed numbers that DCA 2.0 brought in the subs weren't a topic of money saving conversation. So why now? Why all of a sudden do they apparently feel the need to can the subs to save money?

    It doesn't make any sense.
    Please... put Guardians of the Galaxy in Tomorrowland.













  8. #158

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by brianpinsky View Post
    First off Al has stopped doing the majority of the reports for some time due to health reasons and it now up to Dusty and the other heads of the site to get the dirt.

    The other piece I have to say is that DLR is making a killing right now with how packed the park is I think they can eat the operating cost of the subs considering that no mater how much they try, DCA, the Parks and Resorts division walks always with income at the end of each year (end of September)

    For whatever reason, the rumors appear to be, tongue-in-cheek, false.

    It is in the public domain that a while ago Disney announced no major new domestic theme park projects, the company is already ramping up for the $4 billion Shanghai project, of that, Disney will contribute about $2 Billion. Shareholders, who have witnessed the $3 billion, or whatever it was, spent on the parks over the past couple years with Carsland, New Fantasyland, and new stuff in Paris and Hong Kong, were asking for a profit taking phase. And Disney is obliging them by stating they will spend $6 to $8 billion in stock repurchases to please the stockholders.

    The Sub Rumor started on June 26th, 2012 with this blurb:

    In the Tomorrowland area particularly, WDI has convinced Burbank’s sharp pencil boys that a large swath of the 1959-67 Tomorrowland must go to make way for the future. The result is that three current attractions are now on WDI’s radar for demolition and redevelopment; Innoventions, Autopia, and - get ready - the Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage.

    Well, if the Subs are so expensive to run, then why would WDI have to convinced the accountants, the "sharp pencil boys?"

    At any rate, on July 17, 2012, Disney announced Finding Nemo 2. The Subs really aren't expensive to run, the ride is a workhorse that has been running for about 6 1/2 years without a major overhaul, uses a low maintenance inductive charging system, projections which are cheaper to run than underwater animatronics (they decreased the volume of the Subs lagoon from 9 million gallons to something like 6 million when they took out the underwater cavern scenes and replaced them with "dry scenes" that look they're submerged.) Given that the Autopia is a classic attraction, very popular one which has Fast Pass, isn't a re-theming/new more efficient electric cars the way to go?

    I think wherever the rumor was started, somebody who doesn't enjoy the Subs/Autopia wants this area of the park repurposed. It's the sort of rumor I kinda reject out of hand as Nemo 2 is coming out, and the Autopia remains popular, and given that there are ways to expand Disneyland and that Innoventions foot print alone is as big as Space Mountain, not to mention the possibility of a ride track above Tomorrowland. There's also the issue of the monorail track above the Autopia, you're talking about a costly project which probably wouldn't boost ride capacity at the park, would remove beloved attractions that kids especially love, and would decrease Disneyland's capacity for years just when the resort is packed with guests and making money.

    On another forum concerning Imagineering I commented a while ago that for Disneyland's 60th Anniversary the company could upgrade all of the Fantasyland dark rides with new special effects, similar to how Tony Baxter plussed Snow White. It would be a relatively inexpensive project, given that the brick and mortar construction phase has been done decades ago, and would appeal to frequent visitors itching to see something new in Disneyland. Not sure if it was a good idea, probably wouldn't deserve a marketing campaign, but seeing the same rumor on Miceage after that, I gotta wonder if the internet isn't like that scene in Twister where they see one cow fly past them, and then another cow until they realize it's "probably the same cow."



    There's tons of *amazing* stuff that WDI is/had working on for Disneyland that doesn't surface in internet forums.

  9. #159

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Things change a lot within Disney. Even when they say something is coming that is not a guarantee.
    Or the rumors could be false, or just reported to drive site numbers.

  10. #160

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by denyuntilcaught View Post
    Or the rumors could be false, or just reported to drive site numbers.
    Nonsense. Fake rumors do not generate sustained interest, only fleeting visits that will dwindle as trust dies. Dusty and his team hardly seem stupid or vile enough to deliberately jeopardize and destroy the original and flagship article of MiceAge and the legacy of a dear friend.

  11. #161

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Nonsense. Fake rumors do not generate sustained interest, only fleeting visits that will dwindle as trust dies. Dusty and his team hardly seem stupid or vile enough to deliberately jeopardize and destroy the original and flagship article of MiceAge and the legacy of a dear friend.
    Can't argue with blind trust. Although judging by the responses to this article, it seems as if the trust is already beginning to die.

  12. #162

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Neither capitalism or the desire to make money dictate massive acquisitions, a tent pole film strategy or operating theme parks like malls.
    Written like capitalism and making money are two separate things. They are also subject to facts and interpretation.

    Fact: Massive acquisitions make money and are part of capitalism. How else will a big company like Disney will increase revenue without acquiring new businesses? How else will the principles get their cut of the wealth, their bonuses, their buyouts, or their new promotions?

    Tent pole strategies are usually a sure thing. The Disney variety seems to be batting 100%. Why not franchise such a winning record?

    Operating theme park as malls is working. People have desire to purchase merchandise and getting their Starbucks coffee. Why deny such a easy target? Refuse money? How rude...

    Interpretation: How dare they!!!

  13. #163

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Nonsense. Fake rumors do not generate sustained interest, only fleeting visits that will dwindle as trust dies. Dusty and his team hardly seem stupid or vile enough to deliberately jeopardize and destroy the original and flagship article of MiceAge and the legacy of a dear friend.
    Indeed, nor are they. These are the days that I regret not having saved the texts of those thousands of Usenet posts from the 90s, in which Disney fans created similar ad hominem conspiracy theories about Al Lutz in an effort to bash his credibility when he reported similar Bad News No One Wanted to Hear about what Eisner's minions were doing to Disneyland. From Paul Pressler to T. Irby, Tomorrowland '98 to DCA 1.0, people literally could not believe what he was reporting.

    Until it happened.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

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  14. #164

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Indeed, nor are they. These are the days that I regret not having saved the texts of those thousands of Usenet posts from the 90s, in which Disney fans created similar ad hominem conspiracy theories about Al Lutz in an effort to bash his credibility when he reported similar Bad News No One Wanted to Hear about what Eisner's minions were doing to Disneyland. From Paul Pressler to T. Irby, Tomorrowland '98 to DCA 1.0, people literally could not believe what he was reporting.

    Until it happened.
    I agree. I miss the days when Tuesday morning couldn't come fast enough. Al's articles were always great and pretty spot on. I sometimes feel that the addition of the forums on miceage brought the site down a bit. It feels less exclusive now.
    "Fantasy, if it's really convincing, can't become dated, for the simple reason that it represents a flight into a dimension that lies beyond the reach of time" Walt Disney

  15. #165

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Close the Subs. Rip out Nemo, for four years olds, (where you go underwater to watch a bad cartoon) and bring back a modern version of the Submarine Voyage, for ALL age groups to enjoy.

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