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  1. #61

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    I say that the subs closing is complete BS. However IF and I repeat IF it does happen then I will be calling for corporate raiders to step in. As of now I don't believe any of this at all will happen. Al has lost credibility to me over the past few years.

  2. #62

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Not everything needs to be a gigantic people eating Haunted mansion, though it you added up enough rides like the Subs, it is the same capacity as a big people eater, plus guests spend time walking in between just attractions and soak up the scenery.
    Disney doesn't want or at least care about that though. Its all about hitting the rides-per-day quota to them.

  3. #63

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by ssaamm View Post
    Disney doesn't want or at least care about that though. Its all about hitting the rides-per-day quota to them.
    Rides per capita DOES include that, though. It's an estimate of how many rides a given person will be able to experience on an average day, factoring in how much time they will spend in or out of line, how many fastpasses they will take advantage of, how long it will take to get between various rides, how much time will be spent eating/shopping etc.

    Without considering what you do off the rides Disney would not be able to get a good estimate of how many you will be able to ride.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  4. #64

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    What really strikes me as garbage is the idea (if true) that all of these planned projects will be canceled or put on hold, when the price of admission is definitely NOT on hold. They keep jacking up that price every single year, without fail, and now they're gonna start skimping on development? That is unacceptable, Mr. Iger.

    Walking in Walt's footsteps

  5. #65

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    It was supposed to be a rollercoaster through glass tubes so you can see the scenery that they would put in the lagoon. The big issue (we heard) was that there was no way to evacuate everyone in the event of an emergeny. So IF any of that was true, I wonder if 14 years later they've come up with a solution to that and might take a look at it again.
    Coasters have brake zones, where the cars can and are stopped, such as during an e-stop. For instance, if the coaster is stopped *before* it goes down a lift-hill. The computer stops all traffic, guests evacuate.

    Now, along some parts of a coaster, the car will never stop, simply due to momentum, save for a earthquake and the track being destroyed, due to physics it won't happen. So . . . put a glass tube through water and a coaster zips through, no problem, no need for an evacuation plan as the coaster could never come to a stop anyway.

    In terms of building an completely underwater coaster, you'd have to have the brake zones have stairs and such for evacuations. Could be done, but why? The thrill is seeing the water's surface and zooming into and out of the underwater environment, if the whole thing is under water, big deal.

    There is plenty of land around the Autopia track in Fantasyland for 2-3 dark rides, or maybe one big E-Ticket Fantasyland ride, and that doesn't include land with the Subs show building. WDI could create a thick forest that effectively hides the monorail track/pylons from the ground, and build a Brave E-Ticket with inside and outside portions, by using a mix of artificial and real plants to build a forest canopy to hide from view certain sections of the monorail track. Autopia could be shortened, or even have "inside" portions that pass underneath a portion of such an attraction by using rock work.

    Of course this would have to be an electric Autopia due to fumes, but could certainly be done, a futuristic Autopia in Tomorrowland, and a massive Brave E-Ticket with animatronic bears, a woodcarver witches, and willow whips . . .

    Name:  OB-TC821_brave1_E_20120525142712.jpg
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    Another big bonus with re-creating Brave's dark woods in the motor botor/north-Autopia land is that mists machines could be used both to hide the monorail pylons (though they'd be pretty well hidden with fake vines, shrubs, a whole lot of tree trunks), and to hide, until the last moment, terrifying encounters with animatronic bears.

    Of course, there's also the acoustic intrusion of the monorail, but that would likely be covered up with enhanced gurgling stream sounds and the growl of, well, you know—bears, as well as whatever sound track the ride would use.

    Could easily be done, just a matter of making the investment, and figuring out which ride system to continue development. At any rate, a lot of hours have been spent thinking about disguising the monorail's track around the Small World corridor.

    One of the reasons that the Gummy Glen version of the motor boats was killed off was due to the visual intrusion of Autopia/peoplemover/monorail intrusion, making the investments of cheap wood cut-outs as far as they wanted to go at that time.
    Last edited by chesirecat; 11-26-2013 at 01:02 PM.

  6. #66

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Similar stories have been coming from plenty of reputable sources.

    Was just thinking the same thing, and I agree lazyboy. Plus, Star Wars Land is being touted elsewhere on the web as an upcoming land (along with Cars Land) for WDW's Hollywood Studios.
    Last edited by Ride Warrior; 11-26-2013 at 03:20 PM.
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  7. #67

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    One of the reasons that the Gummy Glen version of the motor boats was killed off was due to the visual intrusion of Autopia/peoplemover/monorail intrusion, making the investments of cheap wood cut-outs as far as they wanted to go at that time.
    That redo was also part of an overall kinda cheap "overlay" program - the entire "Disney Afternoon" thing. I remember there also being an Autopia overlay, and remember there being a more elaborate "something" up the Small World corridor.

    I was a Talespin guy, so was a little underwhelmed by the redo
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  8. #68

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    *shrugs*

    Using that logic, the subs were "doomed" the moment Pressler closed them and then tore down the "imagineering something new" sign off the wall during the press junket.
    The subs have been doomed since the early 1980s. After Discovery Bay fell through, there was a pitch in the 1980s to convert the subs to a new attraction that would have a higher capacity. They've been a problem since long before Pressler and you can take their exclusion from every other Disney park as evidence of that.

    I have absolutely no doubt that they are the costliest attraction per person operating at any Disney resort today. What is just speculation is what that means for the time being: whether Disneyland wants to shut them down to save operational costs, whether they want to shut them down for a new attraction, whether the Ara is being rethemed or what. No one knows any of that. But if the subs are still the most expensive ride to operate, they would be just as much a target now as they were in 1983, 1998, and whatever year it was they closed in Florida. They will always be a target for shutdown.

    I think there's also precedent in taking a ride down for refurbishment that you aren't sure about keeping. Rocket Rods went down maybe twice before they decided to scrap it.

    And truthfully it would be for the best if they scrapped the subs. If Disney can shut down the ride and free up the money to run two more rides with a higher capacity then everyone wins.

  9. #69

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    The subs have been doomed since the early 1980s. After Discovery Bay fell through, there was a pitch in the 1980s to convert the subs to a new attraction that would have a higher capacity. They've been a problem since long before Pressler and you can take their exclusion from every other Disney park as evidence of that.

    I have absolutely no doubt that they are the costliest attraction per person operating at any Disney resort today. What is just speculation is what that means for the time being: whether Disneyland wants to shut them down to save operational costs, whether they want to shut them down for a new attraction, whether the Ara is being rethemed or what. No one knows any of that. But if the subs are still the most expensive ride to operate, they would be just as much a target now as they were in 1983, 1998, and whatever year it was they closed in Florida. They will always be a target for shutdown.

    I think there's also precedent in taking a ride down for refurbishment that you aren't sure about keeping. Rocket Rods went down maybe twice before they decided to scrap it.

    And truthfully it would be for the best if they scrapped the subs. If Disney can shut down the ride and free up the money to run two more rides with a higher capacity then everyone wins.
    I have adult, drinking friends who've been born and achieved majority in that time period.

    Are you sure "doomed" is the word you're looking for here? On this time scale, EVERYTHING is eventually doomed. Even the park itself is "doomed" and will eventually be closed - or at the very least transformed into some different configuration capable of serving our new Giant Ant masters.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  10. #70

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    The outright denial of the possibility of this article being based in reality is somewhat surprising. Rumors are nothing new for this site or the people posting them. What makes Star Wars so special that it needs some ridiculous and elaborate conspiracy to cover up it not happening versus just saying "this doesn't look to be happening anymore" like has been done countless times before? Why no ridiculous story to cover up the previously reported TRON and Marvel projects that were reported on right before Star Wars? Why not just say Disney decided not to spend like countless times before?

  11. #71

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by GiRiMama33 View Post
    Nemo subs are listed on Disney's official Media page as being down from 1/6 through 9/26. They do not appear to be closing indefinitely..just a long refurb...besides Nemo 2 is coming out soon. If you want more info about it, there was some discussion on the Winter Refurb thread.
    You need to read the Miceage update today. You're missing something there.

  12. #72

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by Westsider View Post
    You need to read the Miceage update today. You're missing something there.
    I've read it - I just have a hard time believing that particular section of it. Rides have gone down for prolonged rehabs before (*coughBTMRRcough*) and reopened. The subs themselves were shut down by one of the most reviled park heads and later reopened.

    I have no doubt that *eventually* the Subs will close and something will replace them - but the same could be said for every single element of the park up to and including the park itself. There's a whole lot of rumor in that update, very little specificity, and it really REALLY feels like someone at MC being played for a very specific angle on what their source/sources wanted to get out.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  13. #73

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I've read it - I just have a hard time believing that particular section of it. Rides have gone down for prolonged rehabs before (*coughBTMRRcough*) and reopened. The subs themselves were shut down by one of the most reviled park heads and later reopened.
    That must be why Tomorrowland management is suddenly rushing through a massive re-training program over the holidays, to retrain all Submarine Voyage CM's at new locations since their primarily work location will be closed on January 4th.

    We never do training during the holidays; it's a very busy time and OJT is put on hold until January. But they have to because the ride with the biggest daily crew in Tomorrowland is closing in five weeks and those CM's will need to make up their hours elsewhere in 2014.

    The only thing we don't know is how TDA will spin this. Will they have the guts to announce the Subs are closing? Or will they wimp out and claim it's a "refurbishment" for all of 2014, even though no work will be done on the vehicles or lagoon or caverns show scenes?

    When Big Thunder closed for a one+ year track rebuild refurbishment, walls went up immediately and cranes and heavy machinery moved in within days. Let's see what happens on January 5th, the day after the long submarine "refurbishment" begins.

  14. #74

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I have adult, drinking friends who've been born and achieved majority in that time period.

    Are you sure "doomed" is the word you're looking for here? On this time scale, EVERYTHING is eventually doomed. Even the park itself is "doomed" and will eventually be closed - or at the very least transformed into some different configuration capable of serving our new Giant Ant masters.
    Certainly the subs are doomed, but you're right in saying pretty much everything is doomed, its just a matter of time.

    I guess the best way to try to put it objectively is that, out of all the attractions at Disneyland, the subs have the best chance of being shut down due to history and precedent. The only attraction that comes close is Captain EO, but even then the operating costs are practically nil.

    That being said, the rumors of it shutting down aren't so far fetched. Whether they are true or not is another argument entirely.

  15. #75

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    The outright denial of the possibility of this article being based in reality is somewhat surprising.
    Not really. Pre-MiceChat, a virtually identical storm of messenger-bashing met every Al Lutz report of the disaster-in-the-making that was DCA 1.0 in its planning and construction days.

    The Kill the Messenger syndrome continued post-opening, when Disney suits and fans blamed "internet complainers" (along with terrorism and El Nino) for DCA's financial failure.
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