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  1. #91

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I think Westsider's point was the timing of the training. If they had known about the refurbishment dates ahead of time they would have scheduled the cross training earlier so as not to impact the holiday crowds. Now that the refurbishment is set in stone, they have to accelerate a training schedule that is effectively limiting the number of bodies available for their operation at the busiest time of the year.
    Very possibly, but that still doesn't sway the argument one way or the other. Plenty of legitimate refurbs have shown up with very short notice in the past. As he did state, we end up having to wait until Jan 5th to see what happens.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  2. #92

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    Not really. Pre-MiceChat, a virtually identical storm of messenger-bashing met every Al Lutz report of the disaster-in-the-making that was DCA 1.0 in its planning and construction days.

    The Kill the Messenger syndrome continued post-opening, when Disney suits and fans blamed "internet complainers" (along with terrorism and El Nino) for DCA's financial failure.
    True, but we're on a site quite closely tied to this article and its legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I still have a feeling - no evidence to back it up, just a feeling - that the 'backtracking' and all is whatever source/sources (have a feeling it's 'source' on this one) presenting a tailored version of what's actually happening.

    We *know* MC's on Disney's radar from multiple fronts, even up to getting namechecked at D23 this year. It's entirely possible that MC's being used as a tool in internal power struggles to 'push' projects in certain directions. SOME issues - GAC was pretty close to what happened - show that there's definite inside contact. It's entirely feasible for that contact to use MC for their purposes much the same as MC uses them to drive content and traffic.
    Again, why use this story as cover? Plenty of reported on plans have no panned out as originally reported. What makes these reports so special?

  3. #93

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    #1 More fear soaked adjectives than the most charged partisan political speech in recorded history
    This is the house Al built - would we expect anything less?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    #2 If true, this constitutes a major financial crisis for the company. An immediate work stop at the major money earning business unit of the single largest entertainment company on the planet, and it isn't reported on in any financial trades? Right. That's believable.
    It's not the type of stuff that needs to be disclosed to the analysts. It only gets leaked and reported by trade mags.. or in the case of modern days... watchdog type sites. Stops like this happen all the time without making the press - including things like hiring freezes, travel freezes, non-essential spending freezes.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    #3 Does someone at MiceChat/MiceAge work for the NSA? Because how on Earth are they getting the contents of off the record high level talks between senior executives? This isn't the sort of thing you over hear on a forgotten hot mic.
    Well you don't make major project changes and priority shifts without news of it spreading beyond the execs.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    #4 Since when does project A run in to issues and loose a bunch of money so you cancel lucrative projects in progress? That makes absolutely no sense at all. You just don't do that. Even bad business managers don't make that mistake. "Well, this product failed, so I'm going to stop all work on the product that every fan in the world is telling me they want." Said no CEO ever.
    When you are managing the balance sheet for the quarter you make such decisions. All of these projects impact TWDC's quarterly performance - the fact something was budgeted separately doesn't matter if things get drastic enough for the company to make division wide choices to stop the bleeding or right the ship in the short term.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    #5 The budgets aren't set up that way. NextGen is its own budget, with its own team. If it is over budget and behind schedule, it gets halted. Not work on projects at Disneyland Paris. Or even Anaheim. Or even Disney World for that matter (except maybe those directly related to NextGen). They are separate budgets and don't really affect each other
    Not when it's the parent is under duress - then 'budgets' which are only PLANS get ignored. I see it all the time... it doesn't matter what your year plan is.. if the business sees Q2 tanking.. they pull back on the short term expenses to get Q2's balance sheet in line. The fact NextGen was funded with it's own money doesn't make it isolated from the rest of TWDC - it means from a planning point of view, it should be isolated from decisions by peers.. it doesn't isolate it from decisions from the parent entity/leadership.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    #6 Continuing to push the idea that MyMagic+ is some minute-by-minute pre-planning of your entire vacation is another glaring issue here and exposes an agenda. That isn't what MyMagic+ is, unless you want it to be that for you. What it is is an option you can use, as you see fit, to plan as much or as little of your trip as you'd like
    Like or not.. prefer it not.. there is no hiding from MM+ at WDW. If you participate or not.. it's changing the theme park experience. Some don't like it.. some do.. some are neutral. All share their thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Again, I wouldn't believe a word of it. Maybe that MyMagic+ is over budget and behind schedule. After all, a lie must be based on a truth to be believable.
    But the execs were seen and reported having a summit down in Orlando the other week... before this story was put together. It's based on more than simply MM+ being behind schedule and seen as undesirable by some.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
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  4. #94

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    We better get something big for the 60th...my god do they not realize Potterland is coming?

    They're will be a new Harry Potter movie (based int he universe) out soon too so they better not think Potterland is going to be busy for just a year or two..more like two decades

    Disney needs to step up there game again...or they will start to see a decline in people coming to the parks like they did ten years ago, and the next gen crap...is just that crap not worth the money the are putting into it

  5. #95

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by chesirecat View Post
    Subs' batteries don't need maintenance, you wouldn't want to try to open up those batteries! The Subs don't really cost that much to keep them running, unlike the train and Indy and a lot of other rides with complex animatronics like Pirates.
    You think that big lagoon just takes care of itself? Ask anyone who owns a pool.. and then do the 30,000ft comparison between a pool, and a lagoon guests surround and move through. What about the number of labor positions on the dock? What about the large complex ride vehicles? Then there are show effects.. and the projectors which have already been cited as an extreme expense.

    The subs were brought back by nostalgia and championed by old timers.. several who aren't around anymore or are distracted elsewhere (Lassister).

    Your other examples listed are great examples of attractions that take very small amounts of labor compared to the labor involved with the lagoon. From front-line staff, to divers, mechanics, utilities.... there is a reason you don't see a sub ride at every regional amusement park... but you do find spinners, dark rides, M&Gs, etc.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  6. #96

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Again, why use this story as cover? Plenty of reported on plans have no panned out as originally reported. What makes these reports so special?
    I'd presume the earlier reports were also one or more inside sources using the leaked information to try to massage the process in a given direction. I pretty much take ANY 'inside information' with that in mind - it's reasonable to assume SOME form of ulterior motive besides "hey, I love MiceChat!"
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  7. #97

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    That's a lot of speculation based on something that would make sense for a prolonged closure
    Are you even remotely familar with Westsider's posting history?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    You're projecting a LOT of future, unknown activities - your future only allows for the ride to be immediately closed or surreptitiously closed, and again those options would be met with a staffing drawdown rather than just retrainings. If the number of people required to make TL "go" suddenly dropped from 450 to 350, they wouldn't bother keeping 450 on staff.
    don't forget.. they are union. Layoffs in that sense would make it difficult between Disney and the union and for Disney to hire freely as they need to. Repurposing employees is always the first compromise when dealing with reducing in labor needs in a union shop.. and in this case Disney is always shuffling it's front-line CMs and dealing with turnover. Plus, these are hourly workers, so Disney can easily reduce hrs/worker if needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  8. #98

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I'd presume the earlier reports were also one or more inside sources using the leaked information to try to massage the process in a given direction. I pretty much take ANY 'inside information' with that in mind - it's reasonable to assume SOME form of ulterior motive besides "hey, I love MiceChat!"
    Taking information with a grain of salt is different is different than jumping to a big conspiracy.

  9. #99

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Given Al and Team's track record, I'd venture this article is pretty right on.
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  10. #100

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Taking information with a grain of salt is different is different than jumping to a big conspiracy.
    I'm not saying there's a conspiracy - if anything, I'm saying that the refurbishment is that, not a cover for removing the ride. We have one source (from the Winter Refurb thread) giving a complete close to open window which implies that THEIR source doesn't see a complete closure in the offing. I am - for what it's worth - taking the exterior publicly visible moves and postings at their face value.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  11. #101

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Are you even remotely familar with Westsider's posting history?



    don't forget.. they are union. Layoffs in that sense would make it difficult between Disney and the union and for Disney to hire freely as they need to. Repurposing employees is always the first compromise when dealing with reducing in labor needs in a union shop.. and in this case Disney is always shuffling it's front-line CMs and dealing with turnover. Plus, these are hourly workers, so Disney can easily reduce hrs/worker if needed.
    I'm also familiar with basic theme park operations. Not every ride CM is union - there would be an *extremely* high chance of a staffing drawdown if they were getting rid of the single largest labor expense in the area. Retraining every employee when a given percentage of them are not going to be there in a short period of time is a long way to go to "cover" for the unannounced removal of the ride. It'd be a waste of training resources.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  12. #102

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    I always take the updates as just rumors. I don't get overly excited one way or the other. I am sure whatever information that is placed in them comes from some sort of source of sources. I work at a corporation and you get information from so many outlets in most cases some is true and some isn't and you just have to take in all the facts presented to you and figure out what you believe.

    As far as budgets being scrapped and projects put on hold I would believe this strategy. My company does the same thing. About this time of year they start planning the next years budgets. So I am guessing Disney does the same sort of strategy. My groups budget won't be ready until April of next year which is almost halfway through my fiscal year If My Magic Plus does require more money and the board won't allocate more money to it they will shut down other projects and re-allocate those budgets to the "high profile project" at least that's what happens in my company. Keep in mind my company isn't Disney but it is a fortune 500 corporation and they all seem to be cookie cutter in some regards. I would also guess a lot of projects that have been purposed will be asked to take a look at their budgets again and cutback.
    Last edited by biggsworth; 11-26-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  13. #103

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    At least Universal Studios Hollywood is charging ahead with some big projects.

  14. #104

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Very possibly, but that still doesn't sway the argument one way or the other. Plenty of legitimate refurbs have shown up with very short notice in the past. As he did state, we end up having to wait until Jan 5th to see what happens.
    I don't think we will have to wait that long. A quick Google search found the announcement of the Big Thunder Refurb on the Disney Park's blog on December 12th 2012. I'm sure that with a refurbishment of this scope (a big attraction being down for more than 9 months) the Disney Parks blog will be forced to make some kind of announcement about what is going on.

    If they don't, you will have a big hint that this hasn't been planned. The rumors on the internet about the Big Thunder refurbishment did specifically mention it was going down for track replacement MONTHS before an official announcement. For a ride to be down for more than nine months, and no one having any real indication about what they are doing is suspicious.

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    Re: Submarines plan to close permanently Jan 4 other bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by sean317 View Post
    At least Universal Studios Hollywood is charging ahead with some big projects.
    To me, Universal Studios Hollywood died the morning of June 1, 2008 when the fire destroyed half the backlot and killed King Kong. Especially after they got rid of E.T. and Back to the Future: The Ride. Haven't been back since and most likely never will be. Now that T2-3D is gone, Universal definitely isn't getting my money anymore.

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