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  1. #16

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    To me, disneyland is like the place I (as a local) love to go and show off to my out of town friends and family. "Oh! Hey! You're coming for a visit from NorCal/Mexico/Colorado/NY? Well, we are going to Disneyland and I'm going to show you how awesome it is!" I then put on a pair of mickey ears and my goofy Disneyland Tourist Smile and have a great time hanging out and showing off what is in my backyard!

    From people I have met from other places tho, it is DisneyWorld that is the mecca to all childhood family theme-park vacations. A complete weeklong vacation. A Disneyland is the drop by 'oh I just happen to be in the LA/OC area might as well stop by for a day" place.

  2. #17

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    It's both.

    I look at Disneyland the same way I would look at Central Park in NYC - it's something that IS a tourist destination and a point of interest for those who come to the city, but it is also a beloved and integral park of many New Yorkers' lives. There's room for both and there always should be.

  3. #18

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    It's both.

    I look at Disneyland the same way I would look at Central Park in NYC - it's something that IS a tourist destination and a point of interest for those who come to the city, but it is also a beloved and integral park of many New Yorkers' lives. There's room for both and there always should be.
    The only difference is that Central Park is free.

    The local beaches probably serve more as LA's Central Park in that regard. Although DL comes as a close second, especially in the free areas such as the esplanade and DTD.

  4. #19

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Off topic rambling removed. Move along.
    Last edited by BogLurch; 11-27-2013 at 03:04 PM. Reason: See text above
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  5. #20

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    The only difference is that Central Park is free.

    The local beaches probably serve more as LA's Central Park in that regard. Although DL comes as a close second, especially in the free areas such as the esplanade and DTD.
    The Metropolitan Museum of Art might be a better example, then. And that's actually one where the locals tend to buy memberships (I always did) if they want to go to the museum often, and there are a number of special perks that tourists don't always know about.

  6. #21

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    The simple answer is that it is a locals park. If you doubt that then ask yourself why AP's have blackout dates? Blackout dates "make room" for the tourists to visit the park.
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  7. #22

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Blackout dates "make room" for the tourists to visit the park.
    Have you seen their internal data on that? Because (caveat: I have pricing theory experience) I'd more likely interpret the blackout date approach as "we want to encourage you to come these days because they need the help" than "we don't want you to come these other days because there are so many of you we need to 'make room' for everyone else". I guess one might argue it amounts to the same thing, but to me there it's a different scenario of there being enough single day/park hopper folks expected at a certain time that you don't need to encourage APs to come then, therefore you prevent them from doing so, which forces them to choose to attend on dates that you'd rather they come to prevent emptiness on said dates. Plus, for an AP you're giving a potentially significant per-visit discount. If you have a certain number of people who can enter on a given day, and expect the "full price" people to come in droves, you don't want or need to discounted people around, because it decreases the maximum ticket revenue you can make that day. (unless they have other data suggesting the in-park purchases of APs so exceeds the in-park purchases of park hoppers that the ticket revenue difference is negligible, but I'd speculate those who come often spend less in-park than those who come once). Part of a discounting approach is generally to justify it. One justification is it's a volume discount: you're coming a lot, so you get the better price; but another is, you're getting a discount, but we're going to restrict you. Which also then encourages upselling for anyone who doesn't like the restriction. It gives you options for controlling the behaviour so people attend when you need them to in order to maximize revenue. None of which necessarily helps narrow down the "locals vs tourists" question.

    If it's really 70/30 as someone suggested, I'd definitely call it both, although I am in my head making an assumption about the number of APs who aren't strictly speaking "local".
    Last edited by theatremouse; 11-27-2013 at 03:54 PM.

  8. #23

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by theatremouse View Post
    Have you seen their internal data on that? Because (caveat: I have pricing theory experience) I'd more likely interpret the blackout date approach as "we want to encourage you to come these days because they need the help" than "we don't want you to come these other days because there are so many of you we need to 'make room' for everyone else". I guess one might argue it amounts to the same thing, but to me there it's a different scenario of there being enough single day/park hopper folks expected at a certain time that you don't need to encourage APs to come then, therefore you prevent them from doing so, which forces them to choose to attend on dates that you'd rather they come to prevent emptiness on said dates. Plus, for an AP you're giving a potentially significant per-visit discount. Part of a discounting approach is generally to justify it. One justification is it's a volume discount: you're coming a lot, so you get the better price; but another is, you're getting a discount, but we're going to restrict you. Which also then encourages upselling for anyone who doesn't like the restriction. It gives you options for controlling the behaviour so people attend when you need them to in order to maximize revenue.
    The difference being that Disney completely removed the "choice" to attend via AP for specific dates. If the majority of the traffic was tourist generated those safeguards would be unnecessary. Instead they specifically block what they assume will be the busiest times of the year to ensure the park capacity isn't met due to AP attendance. There is no need to "direct" unless the population is large enough to have a significant impact on daily attendance. If the population is... which it sounds like you believe it is... then it would again lend itself to being a "local" park. Disney is attempting to maximize revenue but the goal is to have a higher percentage of tourists (ticketed admissions) when park capacity is met.
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  9. #24

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by theatremouse View Post
    I am in my head making an assumption about the number of APs who aren't strictly speaking "local".
    That's a really good point. There have been many people who have posted here who have APs but live in AZ, Utah, Northern CA and even further afield. Not everyone with an AP is a local at all.

  10. #25

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Plus, I'd wager there are potentially large numbers of people who live less than 50 miles from the park and don't have APs. So the question can't really be answered just by looking at AP vs not. Local vs tourist is a billing address question. AP vs day ticket is a discount vs full price question. They're related but it's not clean lines.

  11. #26

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    That's a really good point. There have been many people who have posted here who have APs but live in AZ, Utah, Northern CA and even further afield. Not everyone with an AP is a local at all.
    It would be interesting to get a full breakdown. At the same time individuals outside of California are excluded from SoCal, SoCalSelect, and monthly payments. So I would say statistically that CA residents are a much higher percentage of the overall AP population. If you factor in that SoCal and SoCalSelect have more blackout dates, logically it would indicate they are a higher overall percentage of the AP population.

    This leaves Premium and Deluxe as the only levels that can be bought outside of CA. Premium has no blackouts. Logically that would be the lowest by population percentage. Deluxe has minimal blackouts which places it somewhere in the middle. Blackouts are utilized to direct overall AP traffic flow so in theory the number of blacked out dates should have some correlation to the number of AP's at that specific level.

    Then you look at advertising. Disneyland is heavily advertised in SoCal. They consistently run ads on radio, tv, internet, and print. If you go North of Los Angeles the main advertiser is Six Flags. If you go South of Los Angeles the main advertiser is Legoland and SeaWorld. So advertising is localized, 2 of the 4 AP "levels" are CA specific...

    Not to say there aren't out of town or out of state AP's but I question how many in relation to the overall AP population.
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  12. #27

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Its a locals park and I don't see that changing. Why would anyone but a fan ever chose DL over WDW? Its bigger, flashier, has more amenities, and is built from the ground up as a "resort". Plus DL is no longer the novelty that used to draw kings and queens from all over the world. That DL is never coming back. Not when there are soon to be 6 disney parks around the world and an ever improving Universal.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  13. #28

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    But it is near impossible to do so since Disneyland and the understanding of theme parks is so entrenched in the local Southern California experience and culture.
    Help me our here because I do not get this argument at all. It's NOT at all impossible to turn Disneyland into a vacation resort for extended stays. And if it does it will not matter what a few bent local folks think about it. BUT it's the So Cal locals that keep Disneyland from becoming WDW. And that's good. There's just too many people who live within driving distance of Disneyland for it ever to become primarily an out-area tourist park like WDW. What would it matter to locals if there's more tourists as long as there's more things to do in Anaheim? The seasonal cycles of crowds would probably be a little more defined and that might irk some people. But it comes down to money doesn't it? Disney can make more money if they can increase the number of visitors to Anaheim who stay longer, stay at one of their resorts, and eat and shop at the Disneyland Resort.
    Last edited by Mark Wilkinson; 11-27-2013 at 05:42 PM.

  14. #29

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wilkinson View Post
    Help me our here because I do not get this argument at all. It's NOT at all impossible to turn Disneyland into a vacation resort for extended stays. And if it does it will not matter what a few bent local folks think about it. BUT it's the So Cal locals that keep Disneyland from becoming WDW. And that's good. There's just too many people who live within driving distance of Disneyland for it ever to become primarily an out-area tourist park like WDW. What would it matter to locals if there's more tourists as long as there's more things to do in Anaheim? The seasonal cycles of crowds would probably be a little more defined and that might irk some people. But it comes down to money doesn't it? Disney can make more money if they can increase the number of visitors to Anaheim who stay longer, stay at one of their resorts, and eat and shop at the Disneyland Resort.
    I think one of the kickers here is location, location, location.

    Disneyland is located in the middle of a very densely populated urban agglomeration. WDW is not. In Orlando they have all the room in the world to spread out into empty space and make a vacation resort; in California doing that would entail basically obliterating half the city of Anaheim.

    Another obstacle is the fact that Disneyland is only one of many tourist and leisure oriented places around the LA/OC/SD area. A visitor coming to California might be doing Disneyland as part of a trip that also includes some days sightseeing in LA or San Diego; Sea World, Universal, Knotts, Legoland, the two San Diego Zoo properties; golfing or sightseeing in Palm Springs, boating out of Newport Beach, etc. A visitor going to WDW doesn't really sightsee around Orlando, and while they might go to Universal or Sea World, or some of the smaller local attractions, Disney World is often the sole focus of their visit.

  15. #30

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    While I'll agree with you that there's no way DLR is going to turn into WDW that's kind of the whole point. People need to think outside of the WDW bubble. You CAN actually spend a week in resort that is only a fraction of the size of WDW and there are plenty of people out there who would prefer to. People like me who dislike the spread-out-ness of WDW and all the time it wastes just to get around. People like me who are just not that interested in what WDW has to offer or dislike the weather or types of crowds or whatever. Disneyland Resort could very well offer an attractive alternative to the WDW vacation experience. Also maybe the reason people do other things when they visit Disneyland isn't because there's more to do in the area (even if there is) but because there is less to do at Disneyland Resort? If they are from out-state or even from up-state and are making Disneyland their main destination and yet they going to these other places you talk about then there's no reason to believe that they could not be enticed to stay longer at the Disneyland Resort if you give them a reason to.

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