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  1. #46

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    ^^^^ This and Malina are right on. I find that many Californians just don't like to impose on others or don't have the time for small talk with strangers. People in some parts of the country seem fake with their niceness. Also I always say being nice doesn't mean you are good. It's a personality trait and/or cultural norm. Lots of good people are not overly nice and lots of overly nice people are not particularly good. I find a lot of people confuse niceness with goodness. And If someone moves anyway from California because we are so rude I suspect that person has other issues. Besides they also say people from NYC, Paris and London are rude. We are a pretty urban and diverse state so maybe that's just a common trait that people from more complex urban cultures have that's perceived as rudeness.

    As to why WDW is better known to Europeans and Brazilians? That's easy. It's closer. And flying that much more to come out west doesn't really make sense to them. But there's plenty of people in North America who would choose DLR over WDW if there were more things to do here.

  2. #47

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    You know, the "unfriendly" thing comes up a lot when one compares urban dwellers to people from, say, the Midwest. People from NY/CA/Chicago/etc. might be less likely to chat with strangers on an airplane, for instance
    I think that's a misconception. My hometown of Santa Barbara has only 160,000 people but is more cliquish than L.A. (where I have also lived),
    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    ...but it doesn't mean they're unfriendly. It likely means they need more time to get to know people before they're open with them.
    Which to me, is rude, or cliquish, at best. It means that you have to earn the Privelege to speak to them by getting to know them first as though you're applying for membership to Club 33 or something
    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    If I'm at Disneyland and someone tells me their life story as soon as they meet me, I know right away they're not from CA/NY/etc.
    If someone did that, would you respond with a "do I know you?"?
    When I go to Disneyland, I tune my FRS Radio to channel 2, without a quiet code. They're faster than a cell phone and you can talk to a whole group at a time, and you don't have to get everyone's cell phone number in advance.

  3. #48

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeChat View Post
    I think that's a misconception. My hometown of Santa Barbara has only 160,000 people but is more cliquish than L.A. (where I have also lived),
    Small towns in urban states can be far more cliquish than large ones, especially affluent ones like SB. All the same, I've usually found that whenever someone wants to chat with me on line, on a plane, etc. they're either from a) a small town; b) the Midwest; c) Texas; d) the South.

    Which to me, is rude, or cliquish, at best. It means that you have to earn the Privelege to speak to them by getting to know them first as though you're applying for membership to Club 33 or something
    That's a difference of opinion, I guess. Not everyone enjoys small talk. Not everyone wants to immediately trust everyone they meet. I personally think it's a little foolhardy to extend trust to people that haven't earned it, or to those that you don't know. Just because I'm standing on line next to someone doesn't mean I'm obligated to share personal information about myself. I'm perfectly polite to everyone I meetl. I think it's a lot ruder to demand that everyone you meet should immediately want to chat with you and be friends.

    If someone did that, would you respond with a "do I know you?"?
    When it's happened I've smiled, nodded and honestly felt a bit uncomfortable about it...and wondered why they've chosen to share so much with a complete stranger.

    As Mark said above, there's a difference between being "nice and friendly" and being good. All I know is that in my personal experience, the people I meet in LA and OC are not rude as a rule. They're helpful, they're polite, and once they get to know you, they're good friends. As an example: a few years back I lost my cell phone on a Metro bus in LA. I thought it was gone. However, when I went to Metro Lost & Found, someone had turned it in.

    I've seen people in LA pick up the tab for complete strangers' meals. I've seen people in LA chase others down the street to return a wallet or cell phone that was dropped. I've seen people at the supermarket look at the person behind them, see that they've only got two items in their cart, and wave them ahead. I've seen people chime in to others' conversations with helpful information. To me, that sort of behavior is worth a lot more than "friendly" small talk, and really speaks to the character of Californians.
    Last edited by Malina; 11-28-2013 at 10:40 PM.
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  4. #49

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wilkinson View Post
    ^^^^ This and Malina are right on. I find that many Californians just don't like to impose on others or don't have the time for small talk with strangers. People in some parts of the country seem fake with their niceness. Also I always say being nice doesn't mean you are good. It's a personality trait and/or cultural norm. Lots of good people are not overly nice and lots of overly nice people are not particularly good. I find a lot of people confuse niceness with goodness. And If someone moves anyway from California because we are so rude I suspect that person has other issues. Besides they also say people from NYC, Paris and London are rude. We are a pretty urban and diverse state so maybe that's just a common trait that people from more complex urban cultures have that's perceived as rudeness.

    As to why WDW is better known to Europeans and Brazilians? That's easy. It's closer. And flying that much more to come out west doesn't really make sense to them. But there's plenty of people in North America who would choose DLR over WDW if there were more things to do here.
    I wasn't surprised by the fact that it was less familiar or less traveled to, I was surprised they didn't know it existed at all. I know WDW gets more advertisement in these places, but was still surprising.

    Mileage and cost might impact one's decision as to which park they travel to, but in the age of the Internet, technology, and widespread international media and news coverage, to not know that a Disneyland exists at all is interesting.

    If they travel to Florida, clearly it's less expensive and easier to get to. As my friend said, California seems like it's another realm of existence.

    I guess it is possible to be a Disney fan....or enough of one to travel to the Florida resort....and not know Disneyland exists.

    Curious....but possible.

  5. #50

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    I think Californians are very nice.....that being said, it's been my experience that Orlando treats tourists like demi-gods whereas Anaheim seems to just tolerate us to a fair extent.

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  6. #51

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    There are about 13 million people in Los Angeles and Orange Counties alone. This is not including other nearby counties such as Ventura, San Bernardino, Riverside, or San Diego.

    That's a lot of people who have to deal which each other on a daily basis. Southern Californians aren't rude, it's just that they are better at reading people more quickly than people from less populated areas who have more time to get to know other people better simply because there is not as many of them.

    Mark Wilkinson is right - niceness is not the same as goodness. I've met people from out of state who are the nicest, sweetest people you would ever want to meet. But rub them the wrong way and they could be just as rude or perhaps as mean as the worst person from So Cal.

  7. #52

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    I just remembered when I went on Finding Nemo subs (the one time that I have been on it) I asked the CM how long the wait was (not how much is the weight ) and he told me two hours. I responded, "that's all??" and he was so pleased that I was happy about having to wait for only two hours so he let us in on the wheelchair access making my wait less than 10 minutes. He said he was used to people getting uptight having to wait so long and taking it out on him. In fact, he knew MiceChat, I didn't think to ask him if he was a member.
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    I think Californians are very nice....
    I never in a million years would have expected to read/hear that from a northwesterner
    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    There are about 13 million people in Los Angeles and Orange Counties alone. This is not including other nearby counties such as Ventura, San Bernardino, Riverside, or San Diego.
    In fact Southern California makes up for 4% of the US of A's population.
    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    I've met people from out of state who are the nicest, sweetest people you would ever want to meet. But rub them the wrong way and they could be just as rude or perhaps as mean as the worst person from So Cal.
    I see nothing wrong with that. They give strangers the benefit of the doubt unless they do something to wrong them. ♪ Innocent until proven guilty, deny everything deny everything... ♫
    Last edited by MikeChat; 11-29-2013 at 10:36 AM.
    When I go to Disneyland, I tune my FRS Radio to channel 2, without a quiet code. They're faster than a cell phone and you can talk to a whole group at a time, and you don't have to get everyone's cell phone number in advance.

  8. #53

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasmineray View Post
    It's both.
    Agree. But the clueless suits are really hard at work to make me feel touristy and not a guest.

  9. #54

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    I think to call Californians rude is going a bit far. However, there's still an explanation for the general "unfriendly" and "me,me,me,me" attitude that is given off at Disneyland. It's not really that Californians are rude, just that theme park passholders are entitled. People who go to Disneyland all the time start to feel like they own the place. They've seen and done all the major things so they start becoming a little more aggressive in making their days marginally more "magical". Some frequent visitors are relaxed after several visits, but others become possessive of "their" park and this can intrude on a tourist's once-in-a-year vacation. It's not tourists that are screaming the lines to rides. It's not tourists who are talking throughout the rides because they know what's going next. It's not tourists who are setting up camp for Fantasmic and fighting over "the best" parade spot (because tourists don't know any better). It's the frequent visitors.

    This attitude happens at all theme parks. It just so happens that since DL has more AP holders, however, you see this attitude a lot more at DL than WDW.

  10. #55

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    I'll probably go to WDW this January, so I'll be able to compare. Although that park is already losing out to DL - my wife and I are happy, but both think "yeah, WDW! But it's NOT Disneyland".

  11. #56

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I think to call Californians rude is going a bit far. However, there's still an explanation for the general "unfriendly" and "me,me,me,me" attitude that is given off at Disneyland. It's not really that Californians are rude, just that theme park passholders are entitled. People who go to Disneyland all the time start to feel like they own the place. They've seen and done all the major things so they start becoming a little more aggressive in making their days marginally more "magical". Some frequent visitors are relaxed after several visits, but others become possessive of "their" park and this can intrude on a tourist's once-in-a-year vacation. It's not tourists that are screaming the lines to rides. It's not tourists who are talking throughout the rides because they know what's going next. It's not tourists who are setting up camp for Fantasmic and fighting over "the best" parade spot (because tourists don't know any better). It's the frequent visitors.

    This attitude happens at all theme parks. It just so happens that since DL has more AP holders, however, you see this attitude a lot more at DL than WDW.
    A lot of truth in this, I think.

    Even when I was a CM, there were way fewer APs than there are now. But even back then, some APs were known to have an attitude toward CMs sometimes, as well. Not just their fellow guests.

  12. #57

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I think to call Californians rude is going a bit far. However, there's still an explanation for the general "unfriendly" and "me,me,me,me" attitude that is given off at Disneyland. It's not really that Californians are rude, just that theme park passholders are entitled. People who go to Disneyland all the time start to feel like they own the place. They've seen and done all the major things so they start becoming a little more aggressive in making their days marginally more "magical". Some frequent visitors are relaxed after several visits, but others become possessive of "their" park and this can intrude on a tourist's once-in-a-year vacation. It's not tourists that are screaming the lines to rides. It's not tourists who are talking throughout the rides because they know what's going next. It's not tourists who are setting up camp for Fantasmic and fighting over "the best" parade spot (because tourists don't know any better). It's the frequent visitors.
    Nail on the head. There was a noticeable increase in the behavior described in Tyler's post in the years after Annual Passports began to be aggressively marketed in Southern California, and another upswing after the introduction of the monthly payment plan. Of course, not all APers behave in this manner. But many do, and their numbers are increasing. Their behavior is what is more and more giving Disneyland the reputation of a locals hangout.
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  13. #58

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    You know, when people behave badly on the rides it ruins it for everyone, including the APs who are present. I certainly don't go to Disneyland to hear people recite the HM spiel, talk over the audio on iasw, or take flash photos during rides, and when it happens it disrupts my enjoyment just as much as the person standing next to me.

    The premise seems to be "APs/locals = rude; tourists = polite." I'm sorry but I just don't think that's fair or accurate at all. Tourists can be rude too. Someone who respects and likes the part will do that whether they come from Fullerton or Chicago. We've had people here who have visited DLR as tourists who have openly admitted to ignoring CM's instructions, threatening to damage stores, etc.

    There are close to a million APs. They're not all cut from the same cloth. Many of us have APs because we LOVE the park, we respect the park, and we show it that respect every single time we visit.
    Last edited by Malina; 12-02-2013 at 01:38 AM.

  14. #59

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by TylerDurden View Post
    I think to call Californians rude is going a bit far. However, there's still an explanation for the general "unfriendly" and "me,me,me,me" attitude that is given off at Disneyland. It's not really that Californians are rude, just that theme park passholders are entitled. People who go to Disneyland all the time start to feel like they own the place. They've seen and done all the major things so they start becoming a little more aggressive in making their days marginally more "magical". Some frequent visitors are relaxed after several visits, but others become possessive of "their" park and this can intrude on a tourist's once-in-a-year vacation. It's not tourists that are screaming the lines to rides. It's not tourists who are talking throughout the rides because they know what's going next. It's not tourists who are setting up camp for Fantasmic and fighting over "the best" parade spot (because tourists don't know any better). It's the frequent visitors.

    This attitude happens at all theme parks. It just so happens that since DL has more AP holders, however, you see this attitude a lot more at DL than WDW.
    Preach! Having been born and raised in Los Angeles, but then having done my higher education on the East Coast while having a best friend from Minnesota, I feel like I prefer Californians in general. The "rudeness" doesn't come from a large number of AP's being from California, it comes from the sense of entitlement that the AP population in general have. Being an ex-CM of recent times, I can say that not only are a larger number of AP's from outside of SoCal, but the general behavior is less than flattering.

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    Re: Is Disneyland a tourist destination, or a local park? What's your view about it?

    The entitled AP does have its counterpart in the entitled tourist. The ones that think they're the only ones that "came all this way" and "paid all this money". They're the people that think sticking their kid on their shoulder during WoC is totally fine. APs on the other hand, seem far more likely to let a small kid squeeze in front of them or make room so others can see a parade. If you swapped entitled tourist with entitled local they'd probably both still be rude, because as The Simpsons taught us: a portion of the population are just jerks.

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