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  1. #31

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I bet TDA has more 'administration' folks today including HR, policies, analysts, execs than probably DL had in employees today back in the day
    ...and that's not a good thing at all. How many of these people actually do anything to build or enhance the guest experience at Disneyland? TDA is bloated beyond comprehension.

  2. #32

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    I bet TDA has more 'administration' folks today including HR, policies, analysts, execs than probably DL had in employees today back in the day
    I don't mean to be political, but I think this is the same problem we have with school these days - a lot more administrators than actual teachers.

  3. #33

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    I don't mean to be political, but I think this is the same problem we have with school these days - a lot more administrators than actual teachers.
    Yes. Bureaucracy can be a creeping disease in both politics and business.

  4. #34

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by loungefly97 View Post
    But we really don't know what the average amount someone there is paying. $60 is just a throw-something-at-the-wall guess, unless you know something I don't know. I am sure Disney knows, but they probably don't think of it as average daily attendance, but in total revenue. I would also imagine there are lots of people who upgrade to a pass and then never go again, or go once, or never make the pass pay for itself. I also know from reading MiceChat that there are lots of Premium passes out there. So what is the average guest's daily entry fee? I've no clue. I'd imagine the people paying day by day are subsidizing the passholders by paying a higher rate than they would if no passes existed.

    That said, the formula must work or they'd completely revamp the system or get rid of monthly payments or something. But they don't. So local AP attendance must be vital to their current business model, meaning that whatever the "average" per capita daily attendance price is must be more than palatable. Their doing their best to price some AP's out of the market, actually.

    The point I tried to make earlier is that Disney's prices have increased with demand. How did they make money earlier? I am sure they did just fine, but who knows what Walt's return plan was or what the unique business model was. But he sure did diversify. That probably helped.
    Yes, it's a guess. I used some reasonable assumptions to get to that figure. I use the annual attendance figure from a website, assume 12 visits per year per AP'er, assume average AP cost of $400, and the rest of the admissions pay the one-day fee (even though many of them use a 3-day or 5-day pass, which would lower the average).

    The current business model makes money. That doesn't make The Disneyland Experience better than it would be with no AP's.

    Guests get what the average guest pays for. The hypothetical $60 is probably far more than what the average AP'er pays per-day for (depending on your amortization method, of course), and certainly less than what the one-day guest pays.
    Of about a million AP'ers, I think that very few of them go once and never go again. This isn't some Universal Studios Pass where it's come one day, come back all year. That person has paid for a day, and the rest is gravy, but Uni isn't all that wonderful to warrant a second day. A DLR AP is a very expensive purchase (unless it's a gift) and most people will plan to go a certain amount of days before purchasing one.

    Walt never had to worry about losing his job. Every CEO after him has. Disney stock is owned by some major shareholders who demand a return on their investment (the main ones are mutual funds whose customers demand a return on their investment). The Disneyland Experience is not what any of them care about. The Disneyland Experience requires investment. It requires a high level of maintenance. It requires a specific Cast Member training.
    You know what doesn't cost as much and doesn't require as much work and thought, yet still makes money? The current business model.
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  5. #35

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    They defiantly had annual passes in the late 80's. I remember having one as a kid. Miss those days when they had state fair, and Barnum and baileys, and other fun themes.

  6. #36

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Definitely lol. Whoops. Skype always changes my words around I really should proof read.

  7. #37

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inglewoodmouse View Post
    They defiantly had annual passes in the late 80's. I remember having one as a kid. Miss those days when they had state fair, and Barnum and baileys, and other fun themes.
    It looks like the first AP was '84 - I posted a link to images etc. back on the first page.
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  8. #38

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Walt never had to worry about losing his job. Every CEO after him has. Disney stock is owned by some major shareholders who demand a return on their investment (the main ones are mutual funds whose customers demand a return on their investment). The Disneyland Experience is not what any of them care about. The Disneyland Experience requires investment. It requires a high level of maintenance. It requires a specific Cast Member training.
    You know what doesn't cost as much and doesn't require as much work and thought, yet still makes money? The current business model.
    This is actually a huge point that I think constantly gets overlooked. Walt could try crazy things, because what was the worst thing that could happen? Meanwhile, CEOs are, by neccessity, conservative. Any mistake could cost them their jobs, so they end up taking calculated risks, which even then don't necessarily work out. I think people get upset when looking at the current Disney company and how it is run, but at the end of the day, once Walt, and to a lesser extent Roy, were gone, this was inevitable.

  9. #39

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    And don't forget the annual bonuses. They don't get them for having an awesome theme park. They get them for having a profitable one.
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  10. #40

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    I'd also consider having a profitable theme park more important than ever for Disney, considering there are other parts of the company that are bleeding money. The Parks Division tends to cover for much of the rest of the company. I imagine if other parts of the company were able to start paying for themselves, such as Disney Interactive, or had a better success streak (Walt Disney Studios and its run of high-budget live-action flops) then you'd probably see more money going back into the Parks.

  11. #41

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    Walt could try crazy things, because what was the worst thing that could happen?
    They couldn't fire him but his brother cut off the purse strings several times. After the follow-up features to Snow White failed to make money there were no more animated features throughout the 40s, just shorts and "package films." Disneyland was funded by ABC and a publisher. The Tiki Room was funded by Walt himself (audio-animatronics being a dream of his) and the 1964 World's Fair was a way to get others to pay for some of his ideas, including more animatronics (Lincoln especially).

    Back on topic, I remember going in the 80s and spending more money on food and souvenirs than I have lately. It didn't seem like it cost an arm and a leg to get a burger 'n fries for lunch, candy for a snack, and a t-shirt for a souvenir when leaving so it seems like it was easier to carelessly drop more money over the course of a day. Or maybe I'm more thrifty/cheap than then. ;-)

  12. #42

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Sure Walt could of been fired. He didn't own the majority of the company once he had to start selling interests. Family has fired each other. As the company became successful right after selling out, there was no need to fire the Disney Brothers.
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  13. #43

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcatrik View Post
    They couldn't fire him but his brother cut off the purse strings several times. After the follow-up features to Snow White failed to make money there were no more animated features throughout the 40s, just shorts and "package films." Disneyland was funded by ABC and a publisher. The Tiki Room was funded by Walt himself (audio-animatronics being a dream of his) and the 1964 World's Fair was a way to get others to pay for some of his ideas, including more animatronics (Lincoln especially).

    I thought that was because of WWII?

  14. #44

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcatrik View Post
    They couldn't fire him but his brother cut off the purse strings several times. After the follow-up features to Snow White failed to make money there were no more animated features throughout the 40s, just shorts and "package films."
    That had to do with the WAR - and the economy... not Walt and his brother.
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  15. #45

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    Re: How did Disneyland make money in the 80's vs today?

    What this shows is that the tired argument that Disney has to homogenize, cut back offerings and raise prices to remain in business is bunk. Not only was Disneyland profitable, but it and Walt Disney World were so profitable that they were able to make up for the big losses at the studio and keep Walt Disney Productions profitable.

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