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  1. #1

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    Question Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    We visited the parks during Thanksgiving week and for the first time wondered why it was Mr. Lincoln, not Great Moments with President Lincoln? A president never looses their title right? Does anyone know why they made the decision to say Mr. Lincoln? I'm sure they had one.

    P.s. I remembered we were wondering this because I was watching the Disneyland episode of Modern Family.

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankiefalzon View Post
    We visited the parks during Thanksgiving week and for the first time wondered why it was Mr. Lincoln, not Great Moments with President Lincoln? A president never looses their title right? Does anyone know why they made the decision to say Mr. Lincoln? I'm sure they had one.

    P.s. I remembered we were wondering this because I was watching the Disneyland episode of Modern Family.
    Change "they" to "he" and you got your answer. Also a big answer as to why everything done today doesn't quite match up to the greatness that came back in the days when Walt was alive.

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Walt was very big on everybody being on a first name basis, so maybe it should be "Great Moments With Abe."

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Change "they" to "he" and you got your answer.
    Not really. That answer betrays the fact that Walt was just one person working on a huge project. Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln was developed for the Illinois World's Fair commission and as such there were folks not just from the studio and WED working on the project, but also from the state of Illinois and also from the World's Fair Commission headed by Robert Moses. They all probably would have had a lot of input on the project. If I remember right, Walt originally wanted to call the show "One Nation Under God."

    The correct answer though is that in the United States, there is only one current president who it is appropriate to refer to as "Mr. President" and as such, any former president should be referred to as mister. So yes they do technically lose their title when they leave office.

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Don't some of the quotes used in the show come from speeches Lincoln made before he became President?
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  6. #6

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    We call him Abe, all of the animatronics do. (More detail in my stories below)
    -> -> http://micechat.com/forums/disneyland-resort/181693-after-hours.html <- <-
    Stories of Disneyland from an animatronic's point of view

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    It is called "Mr. Lincoln" because the atttraction is about Lincoln the Man, not Lincoln the President. It is about Lincoln as an individual, not Lincoln as an officeholder. It is about his personal greatness, not the greatness of the office of the President.

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    I always thought a President was called "President............(so and so)" until their death. Even after leaving office. I was watching CNN yesterday and they referred to Hillary Clinton as "Secretary Clinton". That's normal. Mitt Romney was always called "Governor Romney". Both have left their office. So yeah, I think it is proper to always address a former President as "Mr. President". That being said, saying Mr. Lincoln isn't disrespectful either. Walt originally named it this way did he not? I think we can agree Walt wouldn't have intentionally been disrespectful to a President he admired.

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    I always thought it was because it was a more 'alliterative' & rhythmic sounding.
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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad View Post
    Don't some of the quotes used in the show come from speeches Lincoln made before he became President?
    My understanding is the speech was assembled using four different speeches from before and during his presidency. I used to have information on which ones, but I can't find it.

    I just found this on line. The speech, with which speeches they were originally taken from, in bold.


    The world has never had a good definition of the word liberty, and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing.


    Sanitary Fair Address at Baltimore, April 18, 1864


    What constutes the bulwark of our...liberty and independence? It is not our frowning battlements, our bristling sea coasts,...These are not our reliance against...tyranny...Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.


    Speech at Edwardsvill, IL, September 11, 1858


    At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow?


    Never!


    All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined,...could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.


    At what point then is the danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide.


    Young Men's Lyceum Address, January 27, 1838


    Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against us, nor frightened from it by the menaces of destruction to the Government nor of dungeons to ourselves.


    Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.


    Cooper Institute Address, February 27, 1860
    Last edited by sbk1234; 12-28-2013 at 07:49 PM.

  11. #11

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    I think it is proper to always address a former President as "Mr. President".

    I don't think this is correct. I can't recall whether it is proper, or just simply common, to refer to former presidents always as "President Lastname" even after they've left office, but I am fairly certain that only the current president is ever to be referred to as "Mr. President".

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trekkie Dad View Post
    Don't some of the quotes used in the show come from speeches Lincoln made before he became President?
    Quote Originally Posted by sbk1234 View Post
    My understanding is the speech was assembled using four different speeches from before and during his presidency. I used to have information on which ones, but I can't find it.

    I just found this on line. The speech, with which speeches they were originally taken from, in bold.


    The world has never had a good definition of the word liberty, and the American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing.


    Sanitary Fair Address at Baltimore, April 18, 1864


    What constutes the bulwark of our...liberty and independence? It is not our frowning battlements, our bristling sea coasts,...These are not our reliance against...tyranny...Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.


    Speech at Edwardsvill, IL, September 11, 1858


    At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some trans-Atlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow?


    Never!


    All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined,...could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.


    At what point then is the danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we must live through all times, or die by suicide.


    Young Men's Lyceum Address, January 27, 1838


    Neither let us be slandered from our duty by false accusations against us, nor frightened from it by the menaces of destruction to the Government nor of dungeons to ourselves.


    Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.


    Cooper Institute Address, February 27, 1860
    Thanks for the answer. These are great moments with the man, Mr. Lincoln, who would become one of our most revered presidents.
    Have bicycle, will ride. Finished 2012 with 10,089 miles, 683 hours, and 482,000 feet of elevation gain.
    2013: 201 rides, 8171 miles, 544 hours, 480K feet.
    2014 so far: 5751 miles, 319,000 feet


  13. #13

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Yes, presidents are always referred to as "Mr." after they leave office. It feels disrespectful in some ways to me, but at the same time, what else are you going to call them? They're no longer the office holder.

    And it's a little weird that governors and congressmen and women are still called by their title after leaving office.
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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Ripped from "formsofaddress.info":

    Is a Former President
    Addressed as President (name)?

    I have been directing people to refer to former presidents
    as President (last name). Is that correct?
    --- Anna McDonald, Stafford, Virginia

    Dear Ms. McDonald:

    This issue is complicated since we hear former Presidents referred to as President Clinton and President Bush on the media all the time; Here's what is the correct formula as it appears in my book (assuming they didn't have an honorific other than Mr./Ms. to go back to ... as General Dwight D. Eisenhower did.):
    Former President of the United States
    Envelope, official:
    The Honorable
    (Full name)
    (Address)
    Letter salutation: Dear Mr./Ms. (surname):
    Conversation: Mr./Ms. (surname)

    Here's the WHY behind the correct form. This
    is the traditional approach for any office of which there is only one office-holder at a time. So, with officials such as mayors, governors or presidents ... only the current office holder is addressed as Mr. Mayor, Governor, orMr. President ... formers are not addressed that way.
    That's not to say some reporter might not call a former mayor Mayor Smith
    or a former president President (Surname). But doing so is incorrect and confusing to the public. The former office holder is no longer due the precedence and courtesies we extend to the current office holder. He or she speaks with the authority of a private citizen. We honor former office holder's service, but the 'form of address' -- which acknowledges the responsibilities and duties of office -- belongs only to current office holder.
    With offices of which are many
    office-holders at a time ... senators, admirals, judges, etc. addressing 'formers' with their former honorific not disrespectful to a singular current office holder.
    To explain the correct form I would say
    "using the title of a former position is flattering to the former official and he or she may not correct you, but is not respectful to the current office holder. There's only one "(name of the office)" at a time."
    -- Robert Hickey
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  15. #15

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    Re: Mr. Lincoln vs President Lincoln?

    Thanks for that!
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