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  1. #46

    • Not the Hawkguy
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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    I really don't care for the use of grosses to provide a film's value. It should be based on the number of tickets sold. Even taking inflation into account, there can be no real comparison if it's based on the financial take.
    That's also not a great way of judging a movie's popularity, either. Movies don't get the same treatment across the board i.e. different amount of screens and times that movie theaters are willing to give. A growing population inherently means more people are able to go to the movies, and that more movie theaters are open.

    Basically, it is almost impossible to compare movies from different eras. Even comparing different eras at inflation has its issues, in that the price of a movie and the amount of movie theaters are different across time. At least doing financials with inflation gives us a rough estimate on how these movies would perform today.

  2. #47

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    ORDDU: The point I was trying to make earlier is that, regardless of how popular a movie is, if an attraction is built for it and the attraction is well done it can be a success. There are already many attractions that have no movie tie-in's at all but they are popular in their own right just because they were well executed.

    ORWEN: And just because FROZEN is doing well as a money making movie doesn't mean an attraction built for it would be successful unless the attraction is done well. Some people have already been saying that the Little Mermaid attraction isn't all that great and that the lines for it are so short it makes them wonder why they bothered to build it. Yet The Little Mermaid, as a movie, is still very popular.

  3. #48

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Witches of Morva View Post
    ORDDU: The point I was trying to make earlier is that, regardless of how popular a movie is, if an attraction is built for it and the attraction is well done it can be a success. There are already many attractions that have no movie tie-in's at all but they are popular in their own right just because they were well executed.

    ORWEN: And just because FROZEN is doing well as a money making movie doesn't mean an attraction built for it would be successful unless the attraction is done well. Some people have already been saying that the Little Mermaid attraction isn't all that great and that the lines for it are so short it makes them wonder why they bothered to build it. Yet The Little Mermaid, as a movie, is still very popular.
    I would still bet that Little Mermaid attraction is near the top of DCA in terms of ridership. The short lines aren't exactly a barometer of how popular the ride is, because it's an omnimover and loads people constantly. The complaints the Little Mermaid attraction gets are more that some show scenes just don't "work", per se, but the ride is still very popular.

    I think Frozen would do well as a ride, if only because the concept of an Ice Queen dark ride has been around for a long time, and appears to have been a pet project of many an Imagineer.

  4. #49

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    I would still bet that Little Mermaid attraction is near the top of DCA in terms of ridership. The short lines aren't exactly a barometer of how popular the ride is, because it's an omnimover and loads people constantly. The complaints the Little Mermaid attraction gets are more that some show scenes just don't "work", per se, but the ride is still very popular.

    I think Frozen would do well as a ride, if only because the concept of an Ice Queen dark ride has been around for a long time, and appears to have been a pet project of many an Imagineer.
    I've never really understood the complaints about LM when taken in relation to every other movie based ride at the parks.

    I get that the story's fragmentary, not well told, misses out several key moments and dismisses the entire conclusion of the story down to one little silhouette on one panel. But look at the OTHER rides - Snow White dies, comes back, gets kissed, then there's a rock and lightning and THE END get out. Pinocchio goes on adventures, Gepetto apparently gets threatened by a whale, then blue fairy and WE IS OUT! Toad's the closest to a coherent storyline, but Toad also has an independent storyline not part of the movie.

    LM has storytelling issues. That much I will not remotely try to deny. I just have issues with it being held to a higher standard than it's peers at the parks.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  5. #50

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    I've never really understood the complaints about LM when taken in relation to every other movie based ride at the parks.

    I get that the story's fragmentary, not well told, misses out several key moments and dismisses the entire conclusion of the story down to one little silhouette on one panel. But look at the OTHER rides - Snow White dies, comes back, gets kissed, then there's a rock and lightning and THE END get out. Pinocchio goes on adventures, Gepetto apparently gets threatened by a whale, then blue fairy and WE IS OUT! Toad's the closest to a coherent storyline, but Toad also has an independent storyline not part of the movie.

    LM has storytelling issues. That much I will not remotely try to deny. I just have issues with it being held to a higher standard than it's peers at the parks.
    Oh, I completely agree. There are just some show scenes that don't do as good a job of immersing you in the story. For example, the Under the Sea room doesn't work as well as it could; the lighting is rather bright, and doesn't hide the fact that you're in a room well enough. Any other problems I have are minor technical quibbles, but it's a fantastic ride overall.

  6. #51

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    I think Frozen would do well as a ride, if only because the concept of an Ice Queen dark ride has been around for a long time, and appears to have been a pet project of many an Imagineer.
    Right, and frozen things in general is a basic concept that the park hasn't done much with, save for things like the ice caves in Matterhorn Bobsleds. A tie-in with a major box office blockbuster could potentially earn such a project the "green light" at long last.

    Not that I'm a huge fan of movie tie-ins per se, as I think it is important to have original attractions that stand on their own, as well, to make Disneyland more of a place of its own rather than a Disney studio showcase, but synergy can be a good thing at times, too, as now any such ride will have characters who people already know and like (not necessary in general, as appealing characters can be created for the park, but in this case it would have been difficult to match the appeal of the ones in the movie). And such synergy speaks directly into the ears of those who have final approval on major projects, I'd imagine.

    Finally, of course whatever WDI comes up with had better be good, but that goes without saying. Come to think of it, though, I wonder whether any existing concepts were based on a benevolent as opposed to a malevolent Ice/Snow Queen. The default is usually the latter, so probably whatever concepts they have in mind now (if this is even being considered at all, that is) will be quite different, as Elsa is about as far from malevolent as a character can get.

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    LM has storytelling issues. That much I will not remotely try to deny. I just have issues with it being held to a higher standard than it's peers at the parks.
    I think that in some ways it actually has difficulty in just meeting the standards of the other movie-based dark rides in the park, including the ones in Fantasyland, which I find more consistently immersive, as well as more exciting (their ride systems help in this respect) and charming. It certainly has portions that work very well, while other portions (e.g. "Under the Sea") take me right out of the experience (I'm in agreement with Nirya here).

    As for holding it to a higher standard, maybe some people do that because it's natural to expect better of new things, since technology is always moving forward. The problem with that theory is that technology has little to do with such rides.

  7. #52

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Put in in the spot where the Swiss Chalet is, theme it externally to the Coronation stave church.
    Attachment 34296

    Inside, trackless dark ride with two paths:
    Attachment 34297
    Quick one liners and musical segments tell the story almost fully, very quickly in the old school dark ride fashion, much like Pinocchio, with speed but also care.

    Start
    Anna: "For the first time in forever, I won't be alone."
    Anna/Hans: "Love is an open door."
    Anna/Hans: "We're getting married!"
    Elsa: "No."
    Anna: "Talk to me!"
    Weasel: "Monster!"
    Anna: "Elsa!"

    Split
    1. Elsa: "Let it Go! Let it Go! Here I stand, in the light of day! The cold never bothered me anyway!"
    2. Oaken: "Big Summer blow out!"
    Kristoff: "Reindeers are better than people."
    Olaf: "Hi, I'm Olaf. I don't have a skull."

    Rejoin
    Elsa: "Just stay away and you'll be safe from me."
    Anna: "Actually, we're not."
    Elsa: "What do you mean you're not?"
    Anna: "Arendelle's in deep, deep, deep, deep snow."
    Elsa: "I'm such a fool, I can't be free."

    Split
    1. Marshmallow: "Go Away!"
    Thug: "The queen!"
    Elsa: "Stay away!"
    Hans: "Don't be the monster they fear you are!"
    Hans: "Bring back summer, please."
    Elsa: "I can't."
    Guard: "Move quickly, with resolve."
    Stone shatter
    2. Trolls: "People make bad choices if they're mad or scared or stressed, but throw a little love their way, and you'll bring out the best!"
    Kristoff: "Anna!"
    Grand Pabbie: "There is ice in your heart, but only and act of true love can thaw a frozen heart."
    Hans: "I am the hero who is going to save Arendelle."
    Door slam and lock
    Anna: "Olaf!"
    Olaf: "Some people are worth melting for."

    Crossover
    Elsa: "Anna!"
    Olaf: "An act of love will thaw a frozen heart!"
    Elsa: "Love will thaw, of course!"
    Olaf: "Glide and pivot. Glide and pivot."

    Ta-da!

  8. #53

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Not every Disney animated film is ride-adaptable. Some are better suited as stage shows than rides. (I can't wrap my mind around how a BatB ride would work to be honest.) The more I think about it however, the more potential I do see in a Frozen ride. I just hope they don't take The Little Mermaid angle with it and have it be all about the music numbers (they weren't all great). You dont have to follow the movie completely.

    My idea that I presented in WDW thread is to make it a trackless ride to give the illusion of riding a sled (or an ice/snow vehicle) on an ice trail leading you through the Frozen world where you encounter all the things you do in the movie and along the way Elsa may have a few surprises in store. It's a bit of Snow White's Scary Adventures with dashes of TLM and Pooh's Hunny Hunt.

    Disney just needs to slow down and think about how such lands/rides would work before jumping the gun on the next Disney-film land. And for the love of god, please do not replace Maelstrom for this. If Disney wants a Frozen ride do it from scratch.

  9. #54

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post

    My idea that I presented in WDW thread is to make it a trackless ride to give the illusion of riding a sled (or an ice/snow vehicle) on an ice trail leading you through the Frozen world where you encounter all the things you do in the movie and along the way Elsa may have a few surprises in store. It's a bit of Snow White's Scary Adventures with dashes of TLM and Pooh's Hunny Hunt.
    I was thinking the same thing. It could scenic ride through the mountains with encounters with the wolves, marshmallow, and Elsa's Ice Castle. The films environment really lends itself to what could be a cool attraction.

  10. #55

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    I really don't care for the use of grosses to provide a film's value. It should be based on the number of tickets sold. Even taking inflation into account, there can be no real comparison if it's based on the financial take.
    Neither attendance nor adjusted gross has much meaning in trying to compare older films to the current. With BluRay & DVD coming out months after the film is in theaters, streaming, HD quality pirated copies downloadable while the movie is still in the theaters and the cheap hi-end home theater equipment the movie business is very different then 20 years ago.

    It is much harder to tell if a current popular movie will be forgotten in 5 years or if it will be a 20 year classic.

    So either you build a simple dark ride like little mermaid which is cheap and easily replaceable in the future or an E-ticket where the ride can outlast the popularity of the movie like splash mountain.

  11. #56

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    Not every Disney animated film is ride-adaptable. Some are better suited as stage shows than rides.
    That's generally true, much like how some movies lend themselves more readily to sequels than others (although Disney doesn't tend to make real sequels to their animated features regardless).

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    (I can't wrap my mind around how a BatB ride would work to be honest.)
    I think that a Beauty and the Beast ride could be done either as a small dark ride like those in Fantasyland, or in an expanded E-ticket format similar to that of the Haunted Mansion, for example (preferably with vehicles that have more flexibility). The movie obviously has several spectacular interior sets that would benefit from a larger, more elaborate format like the latter, so I tend to think of it as an E-ticket ride. I haven't given much thought to the specifics of a BatB ride, but real quick for example, the Beast's castle is almost a character in itself, and for the sake of a ride experience it could "come to life" more in its own right in a ride. That would be pretty cool, I'd say, and "things" (used in the sense that Walt used it ) like actually feeling the hot breath of the wolves on your neck would be, too. I think that this movie, with the proper execution, would make for an awesome ride, albeit one that is tightly focused on the movie as opposed to a more general idea, but there are other rides like this in Disneyland. Watching the movie with a potential ride in mind shows how much atmosphere (an air of magical drama and mystery) it has in many places that would be ideal for a major ride, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    Disney just needs to slow down and think about how such lands/rides would work before jumping the gun on the next Disney-film land.
    Hypothetically, if they were to make a whole new land out of Frozen, it's a pretty good excuse to have a winter-themed one. Of course, that would probably be a better fit for a park themed after the four seasons, for example, but it's a sufficiently broad theme for an entire land, in any case.
    Last edited by Robert Cook; 01-08-2014 at 10:42 AM.

  12. #57

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLL View Post
    It is much harder to tell if a current popular movie will be forgotten in 5 years or if it will be a 20 year classic.
    I agree with your other points regarding box office, but as far as being memorable, it has always been hard to tell for the general case. I can tell from the first viewing whether a movie is an "instant classic" for myself only (haven't been wrong yet), but how the public will view it over time has always been a guessing game. Personally, I view Frozen as one of those "instant classics," but I realize that others may feel differently as time marches on.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLL View Post
    So either you build a simple dark ride like little mermaid which is cheap and easily replaceable in the future or an E-ticket where the ride can outlast the popularity of the movie like splash mountain.
    I think The Little Mermaid as a movie has proven to stand the test of time for the general public, but in spite of this the ride, in its present form, may not. The key point is of course that a ride done well will stand a better chance of being a classic that is loved for decades than a mediocre ride--tie-ins with popular, classic movies can help, but the ride still needs to stand on its own merit.

  13. #58

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post
    I think The Little Mermaid as a movie has proven to stand the test of time for the general public, but in spite of this the ride, in its present form, may not. The key point is of course that a ride done well will stand a better chance of being a classic that is loved for decades than a mediocre ride--tie-ins with popular, classic movies can help, but the ride still needs to stand on its own merit.
    To be fair, I do think TLM ride will remain popular and have a long life at DCA. For all its flaws it is still the superior dark ride at DCA and is the most technologically advanced in the resort (not counting RSR).

    Movie theme rides you should be worried about are those that weren't put together with much effort or thought such as Monsters Inc and Pooh. It's really underwhelming to know that Pooh opened at the turn of the 21st century and was made with mostly mid 1950s technology. New attractions should be gettin' with the times and be more advanced than what was there before it.

  14. #59

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    To be fair, I do think TLM ride will remain popular and have a long life at DCA. For all its flaws it is still the superior dark ride at DCA and is the most technologically advanced in the resort (not counting RSR).

    Movie theme rides you should be worried about are those that weren't put together with much effort or thought such as Monsters Inc and Pooh. It's really underwhelming to know that Pooh opened at the turn of the 21st century and was made with mostly mid 1950s technology. New attractions should be gettin' with the times and be more advanced than what was there before it.
    I have to disagree with TLM being a better dark ride than Monsters, as unpopular an opinion as that might be. From a space used perspective, that Monsters was able to salvage Superstar Limo and still be as good a representation of the film as it is is really stunning to me. I'd put the Monsters ride right up there with the old school dark rides for use of space, perspective (the door room mirrors are brilliant), and animatronics. They are simple and effective, really giving the feeling of realism that you just don't have on TLM.

    The TLM animatronics are complex and new and shiny, but can't seem to deliver (Ariel's hair). It is a horrendous use of the space for the Under the Sea scene, and the lack of a true end to Ursula versus the tiny cutout at the end is excessively disappointing. If you look at the blue print that was up in the Blue Sky gallery you can see the space wasting issue. The kiss scene is also very lacking. For me, point for point, Monster's is a far better ride.

  15. #60

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    Re: Possible Frozen Ride?

    The Monsters Inc ride is great when you realize how well they adapted an existing track to the story. And I agree in that Monsters is more faithful to the original dark rides of Fantasyland.

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