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  1. #1

    • Not the Hawkguy
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    An alternate use for the lagoon

    Let's get the obvious stuff out of the way. The Subs are currently down for "maintenance". Stars Wars stuff may or may not be on the way. Yada yada yada.

    My thought is this: the subs building (and Autopia) take up a ton of real estate for what they do. In the Subs case, it's a very high-cost, low RPH ride for the amount of area it takes up. But at the same time, I love water features in a park, and the Lagoon itself is very pretty to look at. So what do we do about it?

    My idea, then, is to take the Subs out, but keep the lagoon itself. This would also mean taking out much of the Subs showbuilding as well to free up space. The Lagoon itself is rebuilt so that it can actually hold water, and Aquatopia is brought over and takes up this spot. The waterfalls themselves will still be around, the lagoon itself remains as a picturesque sight, and the kinetic energy the lagoon provides will remain. At the same time, this should be much less costly to run, and should increase RPH for this area.

    The rest of the area doesn't go unchanged, either. Remember how I said we take out the Subs showbuilding? That also allows us to redo Autopia, and shrink it in size. The Autopia station moves over to the area next to the Materhorn (basically recreating the old Fantasyland Autopia), while the area housing the current Autopia station (and part of the land north of this) gets repurposed into a new attraction.

    Thoughts on this?

  2. #2

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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    I've been preaching this all along. But I'm not so sure about the idea of an aquatopia. But they definitely need to find some way to keep the lagoon during the remodel. That much I'm sure of. I can't make any promises about how I might respond if they tear it out.

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  3. #3

    • Minion
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    Let's get the obvious stuff out of the way. The Subs are currently down for "maintenance". Stars Wars stuff may or may not be on the way. Yada yada yada.

    My thought is this: the subs building (and Autopia) take up a ton of real estate for what they do. In the Subs case, it's a very high-cost, low RPH ride for the amount of area it takes up. But at the same time, I love water features in a park, and the Lagoon itself is very pretty to look at. So what do we do about it?

    My idea, then, is to take the Subs out, but keep the lagoon itself. This would also mean taking out much of the Subs showbuilding as well to free up space. The Lagoon itself is rebuilt so that it can actually hold water, and Aquatopia is brought over and takes up this spot. The waterfalls themselves will still be around, the lagoon itself remains as a picturesque sight, and the kinetic energy the lagoon provides will remain. At the same time, this should be much less costly to run, and should increase RPH for this area.

    The rest of the area doesn't go unchanged, either. Remember how I said we take out the Subs showbuilding? That also allows us to redo Autopia, and shrink it in size. The Autopia station moves over to the area next to the Materhorn (basically recreating the old Fantasyland Autopia), while the area housing the current Autopia station (and part of the land north of this) gets repurposed into a new attraction.

    Thoughts on this?
    I think that's a great idea. Though I believe they are only currently down for refurb right now, if there were to remove the subs, I'd definitely like them to keep the exterior part of the lagoon and the waterfalls. Besides the Aquatopia, I think an underwater restaurant themed to the interior of a submarine would also be very cool, sort of like Coral Reef at EPCOT. Tomorrowland does need dining and you could keep the subs in the lagoon but repurpose some of them as props. While I'd preferably like the subs to stay as is, I think a restaurant or Aquatopia would be my second choice.
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  4. #4

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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Too bad they can't just move the Mermaid stuff into the dry boxes.

  5. #5

    • Not the Hawkguy
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Quote Originally Posted by TFN5459 View Post
    I think that's a great idea. Though I believe they are only currently down for refurb right now, if there were to remove the subs, I'd definitely like them to keep the exterior part of the lagoon and the waterfalls. Besides the Aquatopia, I think an underwater restaurant themed to the interior of a submarine would also be very cool, sort of like Coral Reef at EPCOT. Tomorrowland does need dining and you could keep the subs in the lagoon but repurpose some of them as props. While I'd preferably like the subs to stay as is, I think a restaurant or Aquatopia would be my second choice.
    Here's how I approached this, if you were wondering. I had a few goals, in order of importance:

    1) Keep the Lagoon around in some form.
    2) Lower costs
    3) Increase RPH

    You're correct that as of right now, the Subs are only currently down for a refurb. Of course, we have no idea the extent of this refurb, and rumors abound that the "refurb" is really a cost-saving measure. Certainly the Subs are the most expensive ride in the park to run, and when you combine it with a low RPH number, it becomes obvious that it has issues. And I like the Subs. I'd love for the Subs to stay around. But there's no denying they'd need some form of rework to fix the issues they currently have.

    As for the restaurant thing, it's an idea, but I'm not sure it's a particularly good use for that land. Tomorrowland already currently has 2 food areas, so it's not exactly dying for food options, and ripping out a ride for another food area doesn't solve any capacity issues that would arise from removing the Subs. That said, it's an incredibly clever idea and would provide a unique experience, so I'm not completely against it.

  6. #6

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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    It's sad that the Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage has such a high operating cost and such a low RPH, because the lagoon is so beautiful and the ride is so uniquely different from every other attraction ANYwhere. But if TDA does take it out I hope they keep the lagoon. It would feel much less like Disneyland without it.

    Shrink the Autopia footprint? Excellent idea, it takes up a whole lot of space.

  7. #7

    • Former Churro Jockey
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    If we're bringing rides over from DisneySea I'd vote for Storm Rider over Aquatopia, but either way it sounds like a good idea.
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  8. #8

    • Minion
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Adventure View Post
    It's sad that the Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage has such a high operating cost and such a low RPH, because the lagoon is so beautiful and the ride is so uniquely different from every other attraction ANYwhere. But if TDA does take it out I hope they keep the lagoon. It would feel much less like Disneyland without it.

    Shrink the Autopia footprint? Excellent idea, it takes up a whole lot of space.
    I agree with you on that one. I feel like Disney went a little overblown with four lanes separate lanes for the Autopia, and I believe most of the time they only use two of them anyway. If Imagineering were to down grade the Autopia to only two lanes and keep those two lanes to one corner of the land being occupied now, you could potentially have room for another attraction, either for Tomorrowland or Fantasyland depending on where the queue is. That said, you would get another attraction and still keep the Autopia, which oddly enough is the only opening day Tomorrowland attraction. I wonder if at any point if Imagineering tried to work out a solution of the very low hourly capacity of the subs. I realize that they added the extra seat on each side, bringing the capacity up to 40 per sub but I wonder if during the offseason they could perhaps only load one side of each sub or run a lower number of subs (loading and dispatching only one sub at a time opposed to two). That would cut out some of the cost in the number of cast members required for load/unload and also you would have less subs to maintain.
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  9. #9

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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    I was watching a video on youtube of the shovel-turning for Avatarland and had a horrible premonition that Anaheim as well would get a James Cameron attraction -- Voyage to the Titanic. After all, not only was there a movie -- essential for ride themes these days -- but there was really a shipwreck with icebergs and then underwater dives in submarines and we've already got the subs and icebergs.

    Unless we update the vehicle technology, Autopia is a relic from the 1950's, when we thought we'd have fossil fuel to burn forever. Wonderful fun for the little ones and wonderful nostalgia for those of us who can remember a car drive in the country as inexpensive recreation.
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  10. #10

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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Quote Originally Posted by DobbysCloset View Post
    I was watching a video on youtube of the shovel-turning for Avatarland and had a horrible premonition that Anaheim as well would get a James Cameron attraction -- Voyage to the Titanic. After all, not only was there a movie -- essential for ride themes these days -- but there was really a shipwreck with icebergs and then underwater dives in submarines and we've already got the subs and icebergs.

    Unless we update the vehicle technology, Autopia is a relic from the 1950's, when we thought we'd have fossil fuel to burn forever. Wonderful fun for the little ones and wonderful nostalgia for those of us who can remember a car drive in the country as inexpensive recreation.

    I'd actually love that idea. Just make it a generic shipwreck that we're exploring and add in the horror elements they had planned for the Atlantic version of this ride.

  11. #11

    • Minion
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Quote Originally Posted by DobbysCloset View Post
    Unless we update the vehicle technology, Autopia is a relic from the 1950's, when we thought we'd have fossil fuel to burn forever. Wonderful fun for the little ones and wonderful nostalgia for those of us who can remember a car drive in the country as inexpensive recreation.
    It would definitely be futuristic if Imagineering would be able to go electric or even very unlikely with hydrogen to promote alternative fuel sources for the "roadways of tomorrow". I know that Hong Kong's autopia is electric but apparently it was very costly to install and they also have Honda to sponsor it as well.
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  12. #12

    • Pilot EdForceOne
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    They did this in WDW after closing the 20k attraction. all it does is rub it in that the attraction isn't there
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  13. #13

    • Not the Hawkguy
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Quote Originally Posted by TFN5459 View Post
    It would definitely be futuristic if Imagineering would be able to go electric or even very unlikely with hydrogen to promote alternative fuel sources for the "roadways of tomorrow". I know that Hong Kong's autopia is electric but apparently it was very costly to install and they also have Honda to sponsor it as well.
    From what I've heard, apparently in Hong Kong, it was cheaper for them to do electric than it would have been to do gas, so that probably played a part in it.

  14. #14

    • Minion
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    From what I've heard, apparently in Hong Kong, it was cheaper for them to do electric than it would have been to do gas, so that probably played a part in it.
    Definitely long term I think if they install solar and stuff the electric would be considerably cheaper than gas in the long run, especially since they no longer have Chevron sponsorship. I think electric presents a greater upfront cost in installation though.
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  15. #15

    • Minion
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    Re: An alternate use for the lagoon

    This would be my solution:

    1. Move Autopia to Carsland, have it wind through Carsland, make the cars electric and each one styled as a car character from the films, and they say funny things as you drive. This should have been done during the original design of Carsland. Monorail and PeopleMover tracks stay.

    2. Create a new land with an oceanic theme, from the sub lagoon northward to (and including) it's a small world. While the lagoon is drained, create an underwater tunnel system, either a walk-through attraction with moving sidewalks or else with an Omnimover system, similar to the Shark Encounter at Sea World, in which to view the sights in the lagoon.

    3. Create a boat ride on the water surface, utilizing both the sub lagoon and the Fantasia Gardens area. There would have to be a new body of water built, of course, to connect those 2 bodies of water. Whether it's like Aquatopia or more like a traditional boat ride, it should have some fast parts and some degree of interactivity.

    4. Create an island that can be reached by a walkway, and theme it to "Lost" if anyone still remembers that by the time it is built. Otherwise some Disney film with an oceanic or island theme. The island would have a restaurant, play areas and gift shops.

    5. Build a volcano on the far northeast corner, have the Disneyland Railroad go through it, and build a high-speed thrill ride inside the volcano. It could be a scaled-down version of Journey to the Center of the Earth at Tokyo DisneySea or similar. Nightly eruption show.

    6. The Tomorrowland buildings would be remade into a Star Wars-themed land, keeping Star Tours and Space Mountain, with cosmetic re-theming of Space Mountain to fit the Star Wars concept. Move Astro Orbitor to the top of the PeopleMover station, where Rocket Jets was, and theme the vehicles on it as Star Fighters.

    7. Extend the PeopleMover track to the corner of DCA Hollywood Backlot so that guests can get on and off it there. Place a new vehicle system on the PeopleMover track themed to Pod Racers from Star Wars.

    8. New Star Wars-based attraction where Buzz Lightyear's Astro Blasters is now.

    9. Retrofit the Innoventions building to look like the Millennium Falcon and place a new Star Wars-themed attraction inside it.

    10. Jedi Training Academy moves into the Magic Eye Theater as a stage show. Re-theme Redd Rockett's Pizza Port to a Star Wars theme and start serving actual pizza.

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