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  1. #46

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Didn't I hear that the Monorail manages to get past certain State mandates due to a little thing called a "Grandfathering" clause? And if the ride ever goes down for a long period, for major additions, or demo to certain parts of the track ...
    They just completely replaced all the trains 6 years ago. If there were ADA issues, I'm sure they would have been brought up when the new trains came out. Since the subs seemed to have avoid any ADA issues, despite the major renovation, I'm sure the Monorail would be exempt too, renovation or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    Adding a third station would not make it impossible due to the collision avoidance system. It simply means they would have to make sure a train leaves the DCA stop before another trains stops at TL Station. It's just a timing adjustment.
    Yeah that explanation isn't entirely accurate. It's not a technical issue with the block system as much as it is a timing issue. It's not an easy thing to fix either. They ended up reducing the trains from 4 down to 3 because of the realization that they couldn't run three trains at a time efficiently. With one section of track longer than the other, there will always be a train sitting and waiting in the station and it reduces cycles. Adding another stop would mean that a monorail train would actually spend more time in the stations loading and unloading than traveling the route. The system they have now is pretty bad already.

    Quote Originally Posted by TFN5459 View Post
    I think what I heard was in response to the fire they had at WDW on one of the old Mark IV monorails, where the train was somewhat in immediate danger and they had to completely evacuate people off the train or to an adjacent monorail car. At Disneyland since the track is a lot shorter, it would make sense that a tow can reach a stricken train in a fair amount of time.
    It was for awhile part of the Monorail operating guide, which was the location of this delightful gem of an image:

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    I don't know if it's still part of the operating procedures, but the new trains at Disneyland do still include the roof hatches, handrail and non-slip roof that the old trains did, so I assume it's still a possibility for a worse case scenario.

    And FWIW: There was at least once case where a monorail broke down ON the switch track, which prevented the diesel tractor from coming to the rescue. They were forced to call Anaheim Fire and by the time the fire dept showed up, so had the news helicopters.

    Quote Originally Posted by DobbysCloset View Post
    But indeed the subject itself -- removing the Monorail -- is sacrilegious and somewhat inflammatory.
    The monorail isn't interesting enough to be an attraction, and not efficient enough to be an adequate transportation system. It would be tragic if such a large portion of Tomorrowland was locked into being the Autopia and Monorail forever (can there be such a thing as a museum of the future?). It seems pretty clear though that the Monorail will never really have a future as a transportation system at Disneyland, so if it is ever removed from Tomorrowland, it will probably just be removed from the resort entirely.

  2. #47

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    The monorail serves as a selling point for the Disneyland hotel and it also serves as a selling point for the western side of Downtown Disney as many guest se it to go to some of the restaurants there.


    with that said I do think the monorail track needs a few changes, he ideal thing would be to add a detour so that it went to a New aid she hotel area over by Paradise Pier hotel but I doubt that will ever happen even though it was part of the original plans for the resort.


    the most obvious change and something that would benefit Disneyland park is to do some modifications to the track inside the park.


    hopefully I could explain it's easier to understand when looking a t a google map of area.

    when the monorail is running north along Harbor and just past the train station it makes a left turn into the inner figure eight circle. First thing would be to remove this inner figure eight by removing the turn and instead allowing the track to continue north and merging with the existing track that does the large outer circle.

    advantage - the air space over this large piece of land has been cleared for future development. Now just remove the decaying piece of people mover track and autopia tracks.
    WDI now has. Huge piece of real estate to really go crazy with add to that the large piece of property south of the lagoon which was used for Autopia load and the circle vision building area.

    Now let's say that they do eventually consider removing the submarine attraction, which would be one of two obstacle dividing two of the largest pieces of expansion properties available for this park.

    The second obstacle is the monorail station. Leaving it in the middle of an expansion plot this huge would be a mistake. A new relocated station would be the ideal solution. I could think of two places where it could be moved to without it interfering with the potential expansion opportunity.

    first location -- would be flush along Harbor way. Place it in the new straight away that would replace the left turn I spoke of earlier. The pathway that leads to the train station would be widened and have a alternate path that would continue a few hundred yards north to a new ramp that would lead directly to the monorail platform. Any new expansion within the large plot of land could also have an alternate pathway to help alleviate any congestion with pedestrian traffic going in and out of the two transportation systems.

    the other location that might work but a might not be to the liking of many would be to retrofit the old motor cruise loading area by building a monorail station that could possibly fit the theming of the Matterhorn structures. The monorail already goes thru there so it would not really change much of the theme clash that it already produces.

  3. #48

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Back in the day, I thought it was so cool when the PeopleMover went right alongside a docked or moving Monorail!

    It was like all this futuristic movement co-existing all at once.

    sigh....

  4. #49

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by monster heck View Post
    Back in the day, I thought it was so cool when the PeopleMover went right alongside a docked or moving Monorail!

    It was like all this futuristic movement co-existing all at once.

    sigh....
    That section of PM track, from high above the lagoon curving down to the right to parallel the Monorail station, was so bumpy! It was why I always jokingly called the PM the most violent attraction at Disneyland!

  5. #50

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    when the monorail is running north along Harbor and just past the train station it makes a left turn into the inner figure eight circle. First thing would be to remove this inner figure eight by removing the turn and instead allowing the track to continue north and merging with the existing track that does the large outer circle.
    The part where the Monorail first emerges from the trees over the Subs lagoon is one of the most amazing sights a guest in the Monorail (especially for new guests coming from the hotels) or a guest on the ground in TL or FL looking out over the lagoon gets, with usual horn beep announcing the Monorail's arrival.

    Assuming they eventually remove the Subs and Autopia, I think much of what you suggest could be done but we could keep the Monorail as is, the station in the same place and the lagoon used in some other capacity.

    If you remove the PM track and Autopia track, the inside of the western loop of the Monorail figure-8 has the potential for several attraction buildings, with queues "outside" the Monorail track and access to the attraction buildings going under an existing track/structure, similar to IASW, Indy, TSMM, Monsters, Soarin', etc.

  6. #51

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    That section of PM track, from high above the lagoon curving down to the right to parallel the Monorail station, was so bumpy! It was why I always jokingly called the PM the most violent attraction at Disneyland!
    I fondly remember that exact bit too. Never failed. Right on that curve:

    http://davelandweb.com/peoplemover/i...9_67_N198R.jpg

    .... clunkatiy, clunk, clunk.

    Perhaps if they banked it a bit ..they could have smoothed that out. Sometimes .... I thought it might have been a minor anomaly in the drive system in the track right there .. to make it go - clunk.
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  7. #52

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    Adding a third station would not make it impossible due to the collision avoidance system. It simply means they would have to make sure a train leaves the DCA stop before another trains stops at TL Station. It's just a timing adjustment.
    The moving block system requires 3 zones between trains at all times. There is no zone between TL and DTD where you can put a station and still have 3 zones between it and each of the other two stations.

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    DTD is zone 7. You must leave 3 zones empty (6, 5, and 4). So a station would be in Zone 3 (the big curve into DCA from TL). However, this doesn't work because then you only have Zones 2 and 1 between it and TL station in Zone 18. It doesn't meet the requirements of the moving block system. It's three zones between, not including the one the monorail is currently in. Not 3 zones away, but three zones between.

    In essence, there must be 7 zones between stations (9 zones if you include the stations). 1 for the station, leaving 6 more as 3 zone buffers on either size, between the two existing stations. There are only 6 zones between TL station and DTD station.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  8. #53

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by clippers6 View Post
    I think a good temporary solution would be to open up the Grand Californian entrance to all guests after noon. It would make it easier for guests leaving for lunch or dinner to return to DCA. This past weekend when it was very busy they were actually suggesting guests eat at DTD so it seems like if you're going to send people there you should give them an easy way to get back.
    They already do this other's have reported. We've always been asked for our room keys however.

  9. #54

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    If and when Disney does build a 3rd park as well as the requisite hotels and parking lots, I think a People Move is a little more pratical then a monorail (always moving, can add almost unlimited amount of cars). I do think that eventually Disneyland will need some kind of Ticket & Transportation hub like WDW, and it would be nice if the monorail stopped there. I don't know how much money the Rainforst Cafe makes, but maybe Disney could even buy that and turn it into their own TTC and then they wouldn't have to change anything at all.

    By the way, for those who have mentioned that they want to see the monorail inside Tomorrowland, you can have a station outside the park and still have the monorail travel through Tomorrowland. That's how things are at Epcot. The monorail goes into the park, around Spaceship Earth, and back out without stopping. In fact, if you ever find yourself at WDW and don't have the money to buy a ticket, you can hop on the monorail for free and ride it through that part of Epcot and at least get a look inside the park.
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  10. #55

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    The moving block system requires 3 zones between trains at all times.
    Right, but that doesn't explain why the blocks have to be three zones, or if the blocks are even needed at all. Since there are Monorails that can drive themselves now, the whole block system already seems obsolete.

  11. #56

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Right, but that doesn't explain why the blocks have to be three zones, or if the blocks are even needed at all. Since there are Monorails that can drive themselves now, the whole block system already seems obsolete.
    Safety regulations more than likely dictate this sort of thing, not Disney.

    The discussion up until now was just about adding a station in DCA, which does not involve the complete rethinking of train control systems. Hence it not being a possibility.

    However, if we allow for a complete rethink of the monorail control and safety systems, then it could become possible. Maybe instead of blocks we define the safety zones as distances ahead of and behind trains. A green zone x feet around train, a yellow zone y feet around and a red zone z feet around. This would necessitate a significant addition of sensors to the monorail beams and some software re-writes.

    Is it technically possible to add a station to DCA? Yes. But it will require a deal of work to modify the safety systems. Not sure here either, would this level or work on the actual beams themselves undo any grandfathering there? I know the vehicles were just rebuilt, but did the vehicle rebuild affect any grandfathering on the beams? Would doing this mean needing to make the beamway itself compliant with all modern codes? Possible further expense.

    Another issue I wonder about here is the length of track between stations. You'd have essentially TL -> short run -> DCA -> short run -> DTD -> long run. How would this unevenness affect departure scheduling at the stations?

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  12. #57

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Not a fan of the proposal. Just add a stop somewhere in DCA and it's all good.

  13. #58

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BeiEet2CcAAX3ob.png

    for some reason the photo embedding isn't working for me very well. I linked to an imae I drew up for a potential monorail expansion route to make it a transportation option for all 3 parks and DTD. Change starts where it normally turns in to DCA, instead it will cross the street then go through garden walk. Then it'll make a small loop in the new park. Than it'll head over towards DCA and it'll stop essentially behind where Tower of Terror is. then it will make the turn on to the current route to DTD.
    Trips coming up:

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  14. #59

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    The moving block system requires 3 zones between trains at all times. There is no zone between TL and DTD where you can put a station and still have 3 zones between it and each of the other two stations.

    DTD is zone 7. You must leave 3 zones empty (6, 5, and 4). So a station would be in Zone 3 (the big curve into DCA from TL). However, this doesn't work because then you only have Zones 2 and 1 between it and TL station in Zone 18. It doesn't meet the requirements of the moving block system. It's three zones between, not including the one the monorail is currently in. Not 3 zones away, but three zones between.

    In essence, there must be 7 zones between stations (9 zones if you include the stations). 1 for the station, leaving 6 more as 3 zone buffers on either size, between the two existing stations. There are only 6 zones between TL station and DTD station.
    If you're saying the moving block system is station-centric instead of train-centric, then that's something I didn't know. But I believe it's train-centric and it's still simply a timing issue.

    A train can not enter the TL Station zone until a train has left the DCA station zone. Three zones in between: 2, 1, 18 - with a train circling above TL and only as close as zone 17. Once the train at DCA station has left that zone and entered zone 4, a train can enter the TL station at zone 18 - three zones in between: 1, 2, 3.
    Last edited by Mojave; 01-21-2014 at 02:23 PM.

  15. #60

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    If that is the case, that could work, but it would all be dependent on getting a train out of DTD and at least one zone out before DCA could depart. There's great potential here for delay issues unless it sticks to 2 trains.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

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