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  1. #61

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Safety regulations more than likely dictate this sort of thing, not Disney.
    I don't think there is that level of oversight. Certainly not to the degree of requiring a proprietary Disney software control system. And I doubt there is any kind of state regulation determining the safe distance for monorail trains.

    The discussion up until now was just about adding a station in DCA, which does not involve the complete rethinking of train control systems. Hence it not being a possibility.
    I think we all agree that adding a station to DCA with the current set up is nearly impossible. I just felt its not really fair to say its the block system at fault when systems can be changed and tweaked.

    Essentially though we are saying the same thing: the distance between Tomorrowland and DCA just isn't great enough to work out where a station could go. Even if the control systems were completely redone and the trains were automated, loading and unloading times would make it infeasible.

  2. #62

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    If that is the case, that could work, but it would all be dependent on getting a train out of DTD and at least one zone out before DCA could depart. There's great potential here for delay issues unless it sticks to 2 trains.
    The other problem with throwing a DCA station into the mix on the current route is in the "crossover" entering the park on Blocks 1 and 12, you cannot have a train in both blocks at the same time. If say for example Monorail Red is trying to leave Tomorrowland, they either have to wait for another monorail like Blue to enter the park first or Red has to leave Tomorrowland before Blue enters Block 9. As well, the distance from DTD to TL would be about 3 times as long as the section from TL to the proposed DCA station, making for much faster trips on that segment of beamway whereas the other one is much longer, making a timing problem for station crews.
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  3. #63

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    I have an idea how about we extend the track and run it to the Inland Empire say ontario and build a station there. I just want to avoid the heavily congested freeways😉

  4. #64

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    The track as it stands now has 18 zones. The requirement is that there be 3 empty zones between trains at all times. Given that, doesn't the current track allow for up to 4 trains on it at once? 4 zones occupied by trains, 12 zones empty, and 2 station zones.

  5. #65

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    The track as it stands now has 18 zones. The requirement is that there be 3 empty zones between trains at all times. Given that, doesn't the current track allow for up to 4 trains on it at once? 4 zones occupied by trains, 12 zones empty, and 2 station zones.
    In theory, sure. But the issue was never the block system itself as it was the loading, unloading and cycle times.

    For awhile, when they last attempted to run three trains at once, a train would almost always be forced to hold above Fantasyland (zone 16 on the map) while waiting for the train ahead to clear Tomorrowland. It was a timing issue.

    The problem was that it took less time for a train to travel from DTD to Fantasyland, than a train to pull up from Fantasyland to Tomorrowland, unload, load, AND be cleared for dispatch. Once the trains were backed up it was too difficult to catch up and the efficiency tanked. Hence the now two train mandate.

  6. #66

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Pay attention to the facts: The DL Monorail THRC is way to low to ever provide realistic transportation. Do the numbers, all other detailed suggestions are moot.

  7. #67

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by gurrini View Post
    Pay attention to the facts: The DL Monorail THRC is way to low to ever provide realistic transportation. Do the numbers, all other detailed suggestions are moot.
    True just leave Mark VII alone, it's to little.

    Comparative train maximum capacity sizes - Disneyland Mark VII = 122, WDW Mark VI = 365, Latest from Bombardier INNOVIA 300 = 1000

    Better to put in a separate High Capacity system to string Parks (entrances) with Parking lots and Areas like DTD or Garden Walk. I would replace the Trams with this and for the Disneyland/DCA station put it down under the plaza to not contrast with the original monorail and keep the plaza clear. (Yes, monorails in Japan and China do go underground where necessary)

    Perspective Check

    Here are some pictures of Sao Paulo Brazil's 1st INNOVIA 300 during the current construction of their 14.8 mile 18 station line. One dang big train. FYI It's not painted yet. There will be 54 7-car trains when finished.

    Fully automated, no attendants, train to train auto coupling under the nose

    Flat floor at station for roll on wheelchairs and strollers. Walk thru design to even out crowds and evacuation. The entire line has escape catwalks between the east-west bound tracks.

    1st time in a new station, a road median station with passenger bridges to the ticketing level from Passenger Parking, Taxi, Bus and Drop off.

    Hope you all enjoyed seeing how Disneyland's Mark I grew and evolved into this new "real" Mass Transit" system.
    Last edited by Timon; 01-22-2014 at 06:03 PM.

  8. #68

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    ^^^This was what I trying to point to before ....

    The Disneyland monorail is too small to move an adequate number of people around the DLR.

    If you replaced the entire monorail - track, beams, trains, stations ... and put in something to handle the huge crowds .... you are going to have a MONSTER sized system ... that is going to look WAY out of proportion to the rest of Disneyland.

    The Tomorrowland Monorail is meant to be an Attraction. And can only ever be an "attraction". And what's wrong with that idea, anyway??

    And if .. the DLR grows to be a 3 park resort, with more hotels and shops ... I could visualize a separate system to take people up to the general park entrance areas, and parking structures. TDR accomplishes this. And the Disney Co. can only play denial for so long - At some point, they need to move the increasing pedestrian traffic off dangerous streets .. and get them elevated .. above it all.
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  9. #69

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Weaver View Post
    The track as it stands now has 18 zones. The requirement is that there be 3 empty zones between trains at all times. Given that, doesn't the current track allow for up to 4 trains on it at once? 4 zones occupied by trains, 12 zones empty, and 2 station zones.
    Theoretically the system could support four trains, but all I have seen are two trains at any one time. The Mark VII's were designed to run with three trains simultaneously but even that would be a challenge with the load/unload times at the stations.
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  10. #70

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    I think that removing the monorail from running within Disneyland park itself to be a bad idea. It would be very costly to remove the track and station. Furthermore, to remove the monorail from inside the park means that the storage house for the trains will also need to be relocated.

    I do understand the concern about the rail going over the subs and autopia. While I do not think it is a huge hinderance, an easier solution would be for the figure 8 of the rail that travels over the autopia and lagoon to be removed. The rail would simply go from the eastern edge of tomorrowland, head north towards IASW (instead of curving westward) then curve southwest around the matterhorn (as the rail currently does) then connect again with the current station then out of the park on the existing rail.

    Personally, I would like to see that when the 3rd gate is built that the monorail would be extended to the third gate and used as a primary transportation method for the 3rd gate. Additionally, a station could be built where the current bus load/unload is on the east side of the esplanade so that guests could access both the esplanade and DCA if heading from the 3rd gate towards Downtown Disney.

  11. #71

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by notlemc View Post
    Personally, I would like to see that when the 3rd gate is built that the monorail would be extended to the third gate and used as a primary transportation method for the 3rd gate. Additionally, a station could be built where the current bus load/unload is on the east side of the esplanade so that guests could access both the esplanade and DCA if heading from the 3rd gate towards Downtown Disney.
    Oh boy ... why is this glossed over so many times?

    The Mark VIIs handle about 122 people per train.
    And then we have a resort not with 2 parks .. but 3 at some stage.
    Imagine the crowds then.

    Why do we think that even with the addition of one train .. or maybe even two .. is going to adequately move the THOUSANDS of people around 3 parks? And what if people who boarded in Tomorrowland .... don't want to get off at outside stations .. and want to make the full circuit? Or other people with other destinations in mind .. .and only 30 people de-board .. out of 122 .. and you have this crowd of 3,000 people at the 3rd Park station trying to board?

    It's not realistic gang.

    Why does anyone continue to think linking the Tomorrowland monorail elsewhere is a practical idea?

    It's so unrealistic .. given it's capacity .. and the growing size of crowds throughout a growing resort .. both, in terms of number of people, and projected ideas in the longterm future.

    I just don't see it.
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  12. #72

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    The better option for transportation between a potential 3rd gate and the Resort proper would be a People Mover or elevated tram system, or even an elevated walkway with speed ramps. An extended Monorail that lets people get a glimpse of other parks, sort of like how the Monorail at WDW goes through Epcot but doesn't stop there, giving guests a peak at what's inside.

  13. #73

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    The better option for transportation between a potential 3rd gate and the Resort proper would be a People Mover or elevated tram system, or even an elevated walkway with speed ramps. An extended Monorail that lets people get a glimpse of other parks, sort of like how the Monorail at WDW goes through Epcot but doesn't stop there, giving guests a peak at what's inside.
    That's what I'm thinking is if they're going to build an extension to future hotels, parking lots, and the rumored third gate, they're going to have to start from scratch regardless if they build another monorail loop or something completely new like a revamped Peoplemover. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Bombardier Innovia 300 (nicknamed the unofficial Mark VIII by some) is the train currently in use on the Las Vegas Monorail System. If that is the case, Las Vegas also at one point used former WDW Mark IV Monorails (Lime and Coral I think) so that would put the Bombardier trains at full size, or the size of the WDW system. One iffy solution that I can think of is to refurbish the Mark VII trains to have better seating arrangements (they have a considerably lower capacity than the Mark V's) and to increase the train size to seven cars. Whether or not that fix would offset the need for new additional cars and extending of the platforms would have to be determined with more research from WDI but the WDW Mark VI trains do have six cars as opposed to the Mark VII's five and the size difference.
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  14. #74

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    I also think that a elevated system like a modern People Mover would be the best solution for transportation around the resort district. I really hope they consider it. The best would be one of the personal automated systems that can take your group from any station to any other. Then they could even extend it to backstage and CM parking areas and even use it to move freight and product around the resort.
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  15. #75

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by TFN5459 View Post
    That's what I'm thinking is if they're going to build an extension to future hotels, parking lots, and the rumored third gate, they're going to have to start from scratch regardless if they build another monorail loop or something completely new like a revamped Peoplemover. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Bombardier Innovia 300 (nicknamed the unofficial Mark VIII by some) is the train currently in use on the Las Vegas Monorail System. If that is the case, Las Vegas also at one point used former WDW Mark IV Monorails (Lime and Coral I think) so that would put the Bombardier trains at full size, or the size of the WDW system. One iffy solution that I can think of is to refurbish the Mark VII trains to have better seating arrangements (they have a considerably lower capacity than the Mark V's) and to increase the train size to seven cars. Whether or not that fix would offset the need for new additional cars and extending of the platforms would have to be determined with more research from WDI but the WDW Mark VI trains do have six cars as opposed to the Mark VII's five and the size difference.
    Just utilize the Monorail as an attraction and allow it to give sneak peaks of the other parks, and utilize a different system for actual, large-scale transportation.

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