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  1. #76

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    Just utilize the Monorail as an attraction and allow it to give sneak peaks of the other parks, and utilize a different system for actual, large-scale transportation.
    What I was trying to explain was the logistics of expanding the system. I'd honestly like to see a new "enlarged" version of the Peoplemover as the solution to the transportation issue for the Resort Expansion, though I'll take any system except for a rehash of the Rocket Rods.
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  2. #77

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomorrowland_1967 View Post
    Oh boy ... why is this glossed over so many times?

    The Mark VIIs handle about 122 people per train.
    And then we have a resort not with 2 parks .. but 3 at some stage.
    Imagine the crowds then.

    Why do we think that even with the addition of one train .. or maybe even two .. is going to adequately move the THOUSANDS of people around 3 parks? And what if people who boarded in Tomorrowland .... don't want to get off at outside stations .. and want to make the full circuit? Or other people with other destinations in mind .. .and only 30 people de-board .. out of 122 .. and you have this crowd of 3,000 people at the 3rd Park station trying to board?

    It's not realistic gang.

    Why does anyone continue to think linking the Tomorrowland monorail elsewhere is a practical idea?

    It's so unrealistic .. given it's capacity .. and the growing size of crowds throughout a growing resort .. both, in terms of number of people, and projected ideas in the longterm future.

    I just don't see it.
    Using the logic used above, if the monorail is not a logical transportation system then the monorail should be eliminated. I understand the argument that it is seen as an "attraction," but is it really? Wasn't the original purpose of the system to transport people? There is no backstory or tie-in to a land(s) with the monorail. It is simply a shuttle that runs on a rail. If the monorail is an attraction then the subway systems of New York, Philly, DC, Boston and LA are also "attractions".

    Furthermore, regarding my idea of using the monorail to connect to the 3rd gate - clearly, the monorail would not be the only form of transportation to the 3rd gate - just as the monorail is not the only form of transportation to the parks now. When the 3rd park is built, Disney will need to connect the esplanade with the 3rd gate, the monorail is one method in which that can be accomplished.

  3. #78

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    The monorail represents an ideal of future transportation. That's why it exists, and continues to exist, in Tomorrowland.

  4. #79

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by notlemc View Post
    Using the logic used above, if the monorail is not a logical transportation system then the monorail should be eliminated. I understand the argument that it is seen as an "attraction," but is it really? Wasn't the original purpose of the system to transport people? There is no backstory or tie-in to a land(s) with the monorail. It is simply a shuttle that runs on a rail. If the monorail is an attraction then the subway systems of New York, Philly, DC, Boston and LA are also "attractions".

    Furthermore, regarding my idea of using the monorail to connect to the 3rd gate - clearly, the monorail would not be the only form of transportation to the 3rd gate - just as the monorail is not the only form of transportation to the parks now. When the 3rd park is built, Disney will need to connect the esplanade with the 3rd gate, the monorail is one method in which that can be accomplished.
    At Disneyland it is a ride first and a means of transportation second, so it has a low capacity for transporting large amounts of people. However, there are other places where they build the monorail with a much higher capacity in order to make it practical. WDW for example has a much larger monorail that is mostly standing room, and it is used to actually get from one place to another. Seattle and Las Vegas also have much larger monorails. If Disneyland wanted to use a larger monorail they'd probably have to completely rebuild the entire track from scratch.
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  5. #80

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    At Disneyland it is a ride first and a means of transportation second, so it has a low capacity for transporting large amounts of people. However, there are other places where they build the monorail with a much higher capacity in order to make it practical. WDW for example has a much larger monorail that is mostly standing room, and it is used to actually get from one place to another. Seattle and Las Vegas also have much larger monorails. If Disneyland wanted to use a larger monorail they'd probably have to completely rebuild the entire track from scratch.
    And also to point out, besides being an attraction, the Disneyland Monorail also paved the way for more improved systems like the WDW system and Las Vegas. I second the notion that the monorail is attraction first and transportation second. When it was extended in 1961, it was only intended as an alternative to walking to the Disneyland Hotel and back then the Monorail Cafe or as a way for guests to enter the park. In that sense, I feel like the Disneyland Monorail is serving its intended purpose and I don't really see a reason to change it out of its current state. If they wanted a full fledged transportation system, they're going to have to start from scratch.
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  6. #81

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by TFN5459 View Post
    That's what I'm thinking is if they're going to build an extension to future hotels, parking lots, and the rumored third gate, they're going to have to start from scratch regardless if they build another monorail loop or something completely new like a revamped Peoplemover. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Bombardier Innovia 300 (nicknamed the unofficial Mark VIII by some) is the train currently in use on the Las Vegas Monorail System. If that is the case, Las Vegas also at one point used former WDW Mark IV Monorails (Lime and Coral I think) so that would put the Bombardier trains at full size, or the size of the WDW system. One iffy solution that I can think of is to refurbish the Mark VII trains to have better seating arrangements (they have a considerably lower capacity than the Mark V's) and to increase the train size to seven cars. Whether or not that fix would offset the need for new additional cars and extending of the platforms would have to be determined with more research from WDI but the WDW Mark VI trains do have six cars as opposed to the Mark VII's five and the size difference.
    FYI The Las Vegas monorail is a Bombardier INNOVIA 200 (Formerly called MK6) and is roughly the same size and uses the same 26" track as WDW Mark VI's. It was the technology proving ground for the new INNOVIA 300 - 27" track.

    Size comparison per car
    DL Mark VII = 22 passengers max per car (5 car trains)
    WDW Mark VI = 60 passengers max per car (6 car trains)
    INNOVIA 300 = 143 passengers max per car (7 car trains)

    I think your right a new system to carry passengers between parking and parks.

    Keep the Mark VII with a bigger focus on resorts if expanded it might be able to handle that load in a 6 car version, automated, AC, and 4 trains. (One in for scheduled maintenance and three available for service in service)

  7. #82

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Even if they can't go larger than the WDW monorails, another method is to use frequency to up capacity. New, Driverless systems can work with moving blocks or small block zones meaning trains can work on minute headways.

  8. #83

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Even if they can't go larger than the WDW monorails, another method is to use frequency to up capacity. New, Driverless systems can work with moving blocks or small block zones meaning trains can work on minute headways.
    Based on what your saying the shuttles most often seen at airports might work. Bombardier makes a system used in 33 airports starting back in the 70's. These things are scalable to move up to 80,000 people (Atlanta Airport) 90 second intervals. Above, below or on ground level.

  9. #84

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Being from BC, I am very partial to the SkyTrain Automated Rail Technology which uses Bombardier's ART and now a Hyundai EUM made electric powered train in place of the LIM powered originals. I am not sure how the capacity compares but with top speeds of 90 and 80km/h respectively, they do the job. I know that research is being done to shrink moving block spacing requirements to effectively all that is needed for the system to recognize the train infront is stopping and react accordingly.

  10. #85

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Even if they can't go larger than the WDW monorails, another method is to use frequency to up capacity. New, Driverless systems can work with moving blocks or small block zones meaning trains can work on minute headways.
    Right with automation you could do away with the blocks. The trains could slow down as needed as they would know the exact position and speed of the train ahead of them. They can also easily keep and even space ahead between all the trains.


    Plus if you expand the system, such as going closer to the PPH, and down the street to the third gate there would be more room for more trains.
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  11. #86

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by swampymarsh View Post
    Right with automation you could do away with the blocks. The trains could slow down as needed as they would know the exact position and speed of the train ahead of them. They can also easily keep and even space ahead between all the trains.


    Plus if you expand the system, such as going closer to the PPH, and down the street to the third gate there would be more room for more trains.
    What you're describing is called a moving block system. Lots of the new peoplemover type systems are being tested with it and they are getting the spacing requirements down. The technology is much more capable than the laws in most countries.

  12. #87

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    I don't think that's too plausible. I've heard the track is very very very expensive.

  13. #88

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by hollyray View Post
    I don't think that's too plausible. I've heard the track is very very very expensive.
    That is true, I heard it was a million dollars per mile in 1959 but I'm not sure what that would amount to in 2014 funds.
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  14. #89

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by hollyray View Post
    I don't think that's too plausible. I've heard the track is very very very expensive.
    The track for which system?

  15. #90

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    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by TFN5459 View Post
    That is true, I heard it was a million dollars per mile in 1959 but I'm not sure what that would amount to in 2014 funds.
    I'm sure it would be astronomical...but that doesn't mean Disney doesn't have the funds - they probably have billions sitting around lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    The track for which system?
    For the monorail.

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