Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678
Results 106 to 113 of 113
  1. #106

    •   
      MiceChat Administrator
    • Working Late
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    9,006
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
    The designs and standards are becoming less different and seriously, they are no longer all done from scratch. There are pre-designed modular systems.

    You are aware that steel rails, wooden ties, and electrical overhead wires and support all need to be transported to the site. Concrete beams can be formed locally with little distance or transportation problems. Why isn't that a problem with bridge crossings that require pre-formed overhead supports (which are often much bigger than monorail beams) but it is for a monorail project?
    The difference is the construction industry. The competition of a market well designed to build roads and railways means the cost is down to a science. More people can bid on them so the competition keeps cost low. Monorail systems on the other hand have limited suppliers with little North American penetration (largely due to the reasons you stated previously, but the truth is still the truth). As with anything, they are perfecting it, but when you compare the linear kilometers of roadway or rail compared to monorail, the market is just that much more efficient.

    Don't get me wrong. I am a huge advocate for grade separated mass transit and monorails have a special place in my heart, but at the same time I think that Grade Separated Automated LRT (Light Rapid Transit, not Light Rail Transit) have proven through levels of adoption that they are the better choice. These systems are the rule, not the exception. They are also more flexible because standard or narrow gauge tracks can be built cheaper at grade or underground in areas where the land exists to do so. They can be elevated, at grade or subways all in one.

    Their rolling stock is also cheaper and there is no need for more specialized parts or designs meaning lower maintenance costs. A beamway only has the potential to be more economical when in the air because it combines the track, supports and running surface in one which isn't necessary on the ground or underground. This also gets into other more finicky details such as simplified standard railway switching vs. beamway switching. When running a dual right of way, you can more economically put switches in every "x" kilometers to allow trains to switch around sections undergoing maintenance. With monorail beams this is basically impossible. The wider design of their raised platforms also makes LRT systems better during evacuations, excpecially during the need for immediate evacuation. On a monorail, the quickest evacuation is generally a roof hatch and then a ladder down the nose or tail cone onto the beam behind or in front of the train. That or an evacuation chute down onto whatever lies below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Olson View Post
    PRT and APMs use much simpler trackway systems (no power in the track) and have been built at $7 - $15M per km, inclusive of vehicles, station(s) and operation infrastucture. Shouldn't Disney be partnering with the Alwegs (Vectus / UltraPRT) of the 21st century to bring these technologies forward?
    Exactly. Bombardier, Hyundai Rotem, Ansaldo STS, and lesser known names such as Poma, Leitner and Parry are all in on these systems.

  2. #107

    • Down Pluto!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Altered State
    Posts
    3,999

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Well stated Trevor. Even the rail industries had mismatch in technologies and gauges in its early years, but more rapid adoption and necessity made the standardization happen. Same is happening with monorails. Indeed LRT is a better alternative - for now because of the ubiquities of their association to the rail sciences and industries, but for the future? Who knows? These things do change over time.

    PRT and APM's are also good choices for what they do. It all harkens back to Walt's vision of EPCOT. Heavy Rail brings materials to factories outside of town, trucks transport goods to the city. Workers in the suburbs use monorails to go to the factory and industrial centers as well as to go to the downtown grid. Once inside the downtown, the people movers go from center to center. It was a great plan, but even today the lack of long-term (longer than the next development project) planning by political decision makers perpetuates the old urban/suburban sprawl development that shares more with cancer cells that logical thinking.

    There is room for all modes of transportation - when planning is not dictated by political connections/affiliations and need for campaign funding.







    I am Sambo, and I endorse this signature.

  3. #108

    •   
      MiceChat Administrator
    • Working Late
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    9,006
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
    Well stated Trevor. Even the rail industries had mismatch in technologies and gauges in its early years, but more rapid adoption and necessity made the standardization happen. Same is happening with monorails. Indeed LRT is a better alternative - for now because of the ubiquities of their association to the rail sciences and industries, but for the future? Who knows? These things do change over time.

    PRT and APM's are also good choices for what they do. It all harkens back to Walt's vision of EPCOT. Heavy Rail brings materials to factories outside of town, trucks transport goods to the city. Workers in the suburbs use monorails to go to the factory and industrial centers as well as to go to the downtown grid. Once inside the downtown, the people movers go from center to center. It was a great plan, but even today the lack of long-term (longer than the next development project) planning by political decision makers perpetuates the old urban/suburban sprawl development that shares more with cancer cells that logical thinking.

    There is room for all modes of transportation - when planning is not dictated by political connections/affiliations and need for campaign funding.
    Nimby Nimby!

    You are right. The ideal situation is when everything is designed to work together. The problem is cost of course. Smart growth is key if you want to get these sorts of things going in new areas of town, but in existing urban environments you basically build whatever you can.

  4. #109

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Concord, NC
    Posts
    339

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    At this point, "trackless" PRT / APM technology really replaces monorail. Monorail better serves higher-speed, fixed-route runs with relatively infrequent stops (e.g., rural communities with key stations to metro center).

    Thinking of PRT / APM as taking a flexible, matrixed approach to transit means that riders choose where to go and the system plots the course without having to necessarily be locked into a given corridor.

    PRT / APM's simplified infrastructure means, that while we need GPS or networked pathways, we are not necessarily beholden to riding a fixed rail. As it is with monorails, elevated track or platforms allows for easement corridors through otherwise impossible-to-access areas.
    ~ Erik

  5. #110

    • -
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Uijeongbu
    Posts
    6,542

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by TFN5459 View Post
    That is true, I heard it was a million dollars per mile in 1959 but I'm not sure what that would amount to in 2014 funds.
    I bet Disney wishes it was that cheap. At $1 million/mile, that would mean that the entire 2.5 miles of track would only have cost $2,500,000.
    "You can cut me off from the civilized world. You can incarcerate me with two moronic cellmates. You can torture me with your thrice daily swill, but you cannot break the spirit of a Winchester. My voice shall be heard from this wilderness and I shall be delivered from this fetid and festering sewer."

  6. #111

    • Down Pluto!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Altered State
    Posts
    3,999

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by calsig31 View Post
    I bet Disney wishes it was that cheap. At $1 million/mile, that would mean that the entire 2.5 miles of track would only have cost $2,500,000.
    Current costs globally are between 10 and 88 million per kilometer. Without cost overruns of course...







    I am Sambo, and I endorse this signature.

  7. #112

    • Meh
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Neverland
    Posts
    3,208

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
    Current costs globally are between 10 and 88 million per kilometer. Without cost overruns of course...
    I don't see them shelling that out anytime soon

  8. #113

    • Down Pluto!
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Altered State
    Posts
    3,999

    Re: Remove the Monorail Station from inside Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mind Tricks View Post
    I don't see them shelling that out anytime soon
    Well of course those are for projects in typically major metropolitan areas, and involve governmental fees and restrictions as well as construction conditions. Likely replacing or expanding the existing beamway for a Disneyland Resort would be on the lower end if not less than the $10M because it is on owned property with Right of Way and infrastructure already there.







    I am Sambo, and I endorse this signature.

Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678

Similar Threads

  1. [Question] Disneyland Monorail Set from the Disney Store Question
    By patton45 in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-20-2014, 10:50 AM
  2. [Question] Does the Monorail really belong inside the park?
    By DLcub in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 06-24-2012, 07:35 AM
  3. [Other] Build the Monorail from LAX to Disneyland!
    By JamesDusenberry in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 01-29-2011, 07:34 AM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-09-2006, 06:26 PM
  5. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 08-26-2006, 11:30 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •