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  1. #16

    • Tom Chaney R.I. P.
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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by MSCguy View Post
    I think fjhuerta is referring to "we" and "no one" as in him and his wife, not the whole Disney fan population. Due to that, you can't fault him on his opinion of why he likes the park.
    Actually I can fault him for his words. When someone says "NO ONE" that is what it means. I only have what he says and not what you think he means to go on. Simple logic states that if you give one example of a statement being wrong, then that statement is wrong.

    He may have meant something different, but that is not what he said...
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  2. #17

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    fjhuerta, I couldn't disagree more with your post.

    Walt Disney was a genius. And the creation of Disneyland should be counted amongst the greatest achievements in history because there is really only one man who ever lived that could have done it. He had the money/power to make it happen, the animated films and shows to theme it to, the imagination, the television platform to promote it, the designers and artists to conceptualize it, he was born at exactly the right time, he had just enough craziness, and the massive amount of guts to try something that EVERYONE said was a bad idea.

    He alone created the idea of what his theme park should be: a themed environment that transports you to another place with the setting, music, smells, sounds, and most importantly the atmosphere. But he didn't create his theme park alone.

    So many other people had a hand in dreaming up attractions for Disneyland and more importantly how to make them work that Walt's involvement was often little more than saying "I'd like to see something like (fill in blank) for Disneyland", and his team would brainstorm and make concept art to show him.

    Drawing a hard line and saying that the attractions Walt had a hand in are more important/better than the attractions he didn't have a hand in is erroneous. You happen to know which ones he was involved with because you did the research, unless you were working for him and know firsthand. But the attractions should be judged based on how well they convey Walt Disney's vision, not on something you read in a book or on the Internet that said Walt was in fact involved.

    The Matterhorn Bobsleds is an attraction that Walt had a hand in of course. And Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is not. I can understand that you like The Matterhorn more, although I think you're in the minority on that, but what EXACTLY do you think makes it more "Disney" than BTMRR? What is BTMRR missing that The Matterhorn isn't?

    I would say (with a few exceptions) that everything added to Disneyland without Walt's involvement has been a complete realization of his original ideas on how a theme park attraction should feel.

    Walt died in 1966, but his genius lives on in attractions like the Indiana Jones Adventure, Splash Mountain, and Radiator Springs Racers.
    Last edited by Disney Adventure; 01-21-2014 at 01:45 PM. Reason: Spelling

  3. #18

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    I've been thinking of this reply all afternoon and have not been able to nail any one thing down. When I walk through the gates I have the same exhilaration that I had as a child. A kind of anticipation for what will happen next. The park immerses you in sight and sound and is reassuring at the same time. Every direction you look beckons you forward. I once spent an entire day in the park by myself trying to photograph it.

    It's something I've tried to describe to my wife, who's never been there. Her only reference is Six Flags and it pales in comparison. Knott's used to have the same appeal but it has failed as it ages. Sis Flags and Knott's have the same problem, the illusion is destroyed by roller coaster towers. The only place that still holds charm at Knott's is the ghost town, and that only holds if you don't look around too much.

    Disneyland still has the magic. Tomorrowland is the only place I don't feel it anymore.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

  4. #19

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    For me, its definitely the experience as a whole. What I see that separates Disney from the other competition is the fact that they are able to transport you to place far away from reality where you can experience great adventures and thrills. It all has to come together for me to be truly special and I think WDI has done a great job of that in general, even without Walt's guidance anymore. I honestly think though, that Walt was always looking for new things to do and if he were still around, I think he'd be more concerned with developing the EPCOT concept then improving the parks, not to say that he would just leave them to fall apart but he would be more intrigued with developing his own city in EPCOT, but that's just my two cent.s
    "Hello folks, welcome aboard the Disneyland Railroad..."
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  5. #20

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    @MRaymond
    How is it possible that you love Disneyland so much and you're married to someone who has never been there? I'm curious to hear why you've never taken her there even one time.

  6. #21

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    I have a sentimental attachment to all the original magic of DL, but realized today that as far as a pleasant environment, sometimes lately we are finding DCA to be a "happier" place to be!

  7. #22

    • Nutty about Disney parks
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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    My love for Disney Parks is due to my dislike for other parks which rely mostly on carny-style thrill rides. Due to having vertigo, I can't ride most of those attractions. Disney is the only place where I can ride kid attractions without looking so pathetic. Plus parks without that immersive Disney theming feel cold and sterile to me.

  8. #23

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Its because I escape my daily problems when im there and Every trip is as magical as the first.

  9. #24

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Disney Adventure View Post
    @MRaymond
    How is it possible that you love Disneyland so much and you're married to someone who has never been there? I'm curious to hear why you've never taken her there even one time.
    We live in Texas first off. I've tried to take her there several times but travel and money is an issue. It costs almost as much to board our dogs as it does to put us in a hotel. Vacation time is also a struggle since I don't have any. There is still hope and I've plied her with enough youtube videos to peak her interest. We're saving up.
    She's a Texas girl and I'm a California transplant. I'll get her there.
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  10. #25

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D View Post
    Actually when I was leaving the theater after watching Saving Mr. Banks, the one thing that I was thinking about from that movie was how sad I was that the Disney company today was so, so very different from the one that was portrayed in the movie. In the movie everything was creative and all of the employees really were genuinely happy (even the limo driver was happy). I know exactly what that feels like because I was like that too when I first hired in. I know that not everything was perfect when Walt was in charge (there's a lot of information about the strike at Disneyland that supposedly really changed things for him), but it obviously was far better then it is today.
    The part of the movie that really cemented that idea for me was when Walt went to P.L. Travers' house and explained how she misjudged him. He said something along the lines of, "I'm not some businessman out to buy creative properties to just to add them to my empire." I immediately thought of Pixar, Marvel, Lucas, and Avatar, and thought that's pretty much all the company is now. Then I wondered if any of the executives had actually seen the film and if that irony ever dawned them.
    It bothers me when people selectively edit quotes to support whatever point they are trying to prove.

  11. #26

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebob54 View Post
    The problem with your post is that is simply wrong, you have your facts wrong

    You say that no one ever nobody ever mentions them, false You have never sat around and talked hours on end about these things with me and my Disney friends. so on that account you have failed.

    Another point Walt himself said something along the line of Disneyland will never be finished, So in that light you are dismissing Walt Disney dream.
    so really all I can is that you failed to make a valid argument.
    Huh?

    Facts? I never stated anything as a fact. I was merely stating my opinion (and that's a fact!).

    Besides, I was talking about WE as in "my wife and I", not "everyone"!

    Well said. I love Disneyland because it touches me emotionally. It makes me feel good. All of it.


    Exactly! Can't state it any better! It's an emotional connection I can't explain at all, which brings me to...

    I think it would be quite unfair (and potentially disrespectful) to the hard working, talented imagineers who have poured their heart and soul into making the park(s) as magical as can be to simply dismiss anything that wasn't approved by Walt himself.

    For all his accomplishments and visions, Walt was a human who erred like any other, though TWDC may try to hide that. Some aspects of the original Disneyland vision faltered, and only through years of witnessing this or through corrections made by later imagineers.


    No disrespect intended to everyone who carried on (or tried to) without Walt. From what I understand, though, it was agreed that Walt's mission was to create some sort of a unified vision for the whole park, and that was the kind of leadership that was lacking ever since he died (at least, that's what The Disneyland Unofficial story states as a fact). IMHO, it shows.

    The new rides are splendid, fantastic, nice - but when you compare Walt's vision and E-Tickets (1955: DL opens!, 1959: New Matterhorn! New subs! New Monorail!, 1963-1969: Tiki Room! Lincoln! Small World! Pirates! Haunted Mansion! 1967: New Tomorrowland!) and see how it compares to today (1995: New Indy! 2007: Nemo! And nothing more from then on!) you can see that there's a decidedly different take on how things are run now. Not for the better. Again, MHO. I wasn't around DL in the late 60's - all I know is from books and pics.

    It's not just about Walt, I gues. It was all about his leadership AND the men who actually designed, built and ran the whole deal.

    The one complaint I see in the original post is that many new additions are erosive, rather than supportive and constructive, to the Park (in their opinion), not that new additions should never be considered.


    Exactly! I'm absolutely sure that under Walt's leadership we'd have incredible new or reworked attractions everywhere. He tried to keep the show as new as he could. I find it amazing that 58+ year old attractions like the Jungle Cruise can still pull crowds. How old is Muppet*Vision? Captain EO? Buzz?

    I'd love new additions if they mean quality (I can think of select few ones, like BTMRR, Fantasmic!, etc.). And I'd love to see some TLC for the classics, too! My point is, how much focus on the park was lost after Walt died and his team lost their leader?

    Actually I can fault him for his words. When someone says "NO ONE" that is what it means. I only have what he says and not what you think he means to go on. Simple logic states that if you give one example of a statement being wrong, then that statement is wrong.


    Te propongo algo: escribe un mensaje de texto, a las 7.00 AM, en un lenguaje que no es el tuyo, SIN errores gramaticales. Si lo logras, eres libre de criticarme cuanto quieras. Tu "simple lógica" tiene bastantes errores!

    fjhuerta, I couldn't disagree more with your post.... Drawing a hard line and saying that the attractions Walt had a hand in are more important/better than the attractions he didn't have a hand in is erroneous. You happen to know which ones he was involved with because you did the research, unless you were working for him and know firsthand. But the attractions should be judged based on how well they convey Walt Disney's vision, not on something you read in a book or on the Internet that said Walt was in fact involved....The Matterhorn Bobsleds is an attraction that Walt had a hand in of course. And Big Thunder Mountain Railroad is not. I can understand that you like The Matterhorn more, although I think you're in the minority on that, but what EXACTLY do you think makes it more "Disney" than BTMRR? What is BTMRR missing that The Matterhorn isn't?

    I would say (with a few exceptions) that everything added to Disneyland without Walt's involvement has been a complete realization of his original ideas on how a theme park attraction should feel.

    Walt died in 1966, but his genius lives on in attractions like the Indiana Jones Adventure, Splash Mountain, and Radiator Springs Racers.


    Great, thoughtful post. I really enjoyed it. I guess it comes down to personal preference. Do I believe BTMRR is any less "Disneyland" than the Matterhorn? Ugh, I think I do. Why? I have no clue. Perhaps you are right, it's because I know the time frames and who was involved with each one. Or maybe I do enjoy BT but care more about the Matterhorn because of who was involved with it. Perhaps it's my mind playing tricks on me.

    Very interesting perspective. I wonder how right you are. Still - I'd not really care very much if certain E tickets disappeared - Star Wars and Indiana Jones come to mind. They just don't fit into my mental model of what Disneyland should be - they remind me too much of something else. Perhaps that's it?

    Cars Land is another thing. I love cars. I loved Cars. I LOVE the land. I believe it's the best one of them all. It's simply stunning. I do wonder, though, how much will people care about Cars in 20 years, and what will happen to that land. For all I care and like that movie, I don't think it's meant to be a classic, like, say, Toy Story. I really, really hope to be wrong on this one, because it's the best thing I've seen lately from Disney.

    The part of the movie that really cemented that idea for me was when Walt went to P.L. Travers' house and explained how she misjudged him. He said something along the lines of, "I'm not some businessman out to buy creative properties to just to add them to my empire." I immediately thought of Pixar, Marvel, Lucas, and Avatar, and thought that's pretty much all the company is now. Then I wondered if any of the executives had actually seen the film and if that irony ever dawned them.


    Although that episode is apocryphal, I think it sums up a lot of what I'm (badly) trying to convey. That Walt Disney was a complete original, and the whole experience is being brought down by franchises, faulty attractions, IP deals, etc.

    And still - I love Disneyland. I have a weird emotional attachment to the park. It's not a place to me - it's a state of mind, a happy utopia, a completely illogical, happy space on earth I just can't help but loving. I can understand loving a friend, a wife, a dog - I can't understand how anyone can feel so much for basically a piece of land. It's so much more than that.

    Someone said "Disneyland is huggable".

    Truer words were never spoken.

    Last edited by fjhuerta; 01-22-2014 at 07:29 PM.

  12. #27

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Most of my favorite attractions are basically things that were created either during Walt Disney's lifetime or in the immediate aftermath of his passing (Haunted Mansion).

  13. #28

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Interesting thread. For me, it's more about the experience I had as a child. What Disneyland looked like back in the 80s is my original Disneyland. Much of what Walt had a direct hand in most definitely is at the top of my nostalgic favorites (POTC sitting at the very top) but there are many that are not that old but still fit into what I see as my original Disneyland. Big Thunder Mountain, Space Mountain, Star Tours and even Splash Mountain fall into that category for me. Yes, some of these attractions have Walt's essence in their earliest concepts but they were primarily the results of Walt's creative successors and imagineers (The most influential being Tony Baxter). Another point for me, is that of the attractions and design elements that have come since my childhood, the ones that fit best into these elements became instant classics for me. Indy is a perfect example of this. It doesn't take anything away from the Jungle Cruise or POTC. It fits in like it was always there and when enough attention to detail like that is used, then I believe it's something Walt would have loved.
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  14. #29

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    ^^^I'm just curious if Walt might not have wondered why his company was buying property rights for movies from other studios and well-known directors who were icons unto themselves. He was such a genius who surrounded himself with men and women who worked for his company who not only contributed wondrously to his park, but were making things happen in cinema as well.

    IMO, Indiana Jones and Star Tours have ride systems that have Disney written all over them. It's just too bad they're both attractions that are based on non-Disney vehicles that were so iconic unto themselves without having any connection to Disney.

    Though I know this doesn't bother most people though, it's still a bit hard for me to connect with them because of that.

    I still think it would have been nice if they could have just made them generic. A generic jeep adventure. A generic trip through space. Maybe add some didactic elements that teach you about space, or the jungle as you proceed through these attractions.

    I understand that might not have drawn as many people in. There are so many who are passionate about Star Wars and Indiana Jones, and the tie-in certainly opened an extra floodgate of visitors who came just because of that.

    But I think Disney had proven that interesting attraction additions to the park were able to bring the crowds in. Space Mountain and Thunder certainly did.

    I tend to agree with the OP. I still tend to drift toward the parts of the park that have stood the test of time. But I will say that attractions like Splash Mountain and Winnie the Pooh are great. Yes, they are movie-based, and I would like to see more of the edutainment. But if you're going to put in movie-based attractions, it's nice to see them giving a nod to Disney classics. Not those from 20th Century Fox, Paramount or whatever. It's Disneyland. I'm just picky when it comes to things Disney.

    And I also think he was referring to he and spouse; not generalizing it to everyone. That's how I read it the first time, and still do.

  15. #30

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by CASurfer65 View Post
    ^^^I'm just curious if Walt might not have wondered why his company was buying property rights for movies from other studios and well-known directors who were icons unto themselves. He was such a genius who surrounded himself with men and women who worked for his company who not only contributed wondrously to his park, but were making things happen in cinema as well.
    Part of the Genius of Walt Disney was knowing good work when he saw it and bringing it into the Disney Family. While not theme park attractions, Many of Disney's films were based on works created outside of Walt's writers and animators. He had to get the rights to Mary Poppins, Alice in Wonderland, the Jungle Book, Winnie the Pooh, Song of the South; the list goes on. I see bringing Star Wars, Indy and even Pixar into the parks as just a continuation of what Walt was doing from the very beginning. finding good stories and giving them the Disney touch.
    Mike_M

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