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  1. #31

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by fjhuerta View Post
    ...everything that was built during Walt's era and a couple of years later, and you don't care about the rest (or do care but you could live without it?)

    I was talking about this with my wife. What was that we really loved about DL.

    Even though we think Cars Land is beyond impressive, nobody ever mentioned it. We think the Carthay Circle and Buena Vista street are beautiful, but again, no mention of it. Same thing with... say, Star Tours, Buzz Lightyear, Splash Mountain, ToonTown, etc.

    What did we really love?

    Walking down Main Street, enjoying the layout of the park and its charming gardens, eating ice cream at the hub, looking at and riding the Matterhorn, admiring our little Castle, Space Mountain, the Subs (yeah!, the subs!), the Golden Horseshoe, Mark Twain, Haunted Mansion, sitting down and watching people on New Orleans Square, and everything about Fantasyland.

    Except for Fantasyland (which has somewhat the same attractions, only more modern or shuffled around) - EVERYTHING was built during Walt's lifetime. He personally approved or designed or was somehow involved with it.

    We wouldn't mind if Indy disappeared overnight - but we'd stop visiting DL if it's a small world or Pirates of the Caribbean (our all time favorite attractions ever) were removed.

    They could flatten Toontown and we wouldn't care. Splash Mountain and Poo could go away. Same thing. We'd still visit.

    We finally realized - we are in love with Walt's touch. His vision was pure, crystal clear, forceful and defined. Later CEO's or Presidents or whatever have merely eroded or, at best, mantained what was perfect in the first place.

    There's only a single thing we'd miss if it was gone. Fantasmic! We agree - that one is completely fantastic. The rest?

    I guess we could perfectly live with Walt's Disneyland.

    I wonder if we are alone on this one.
    You're not alone. Not alone by far. I, and many others I know, feel the exact same way. There was magic in what Walt created somehow. As the years passed it all began to feel more contrived to me. It's all fine. I don't have many massive problems with anything. But, nothing hits the mark for me like the Walt-era attractions do. They have the perfect blend of simplicity and magic that keeps me coming back for more.

  2. #32

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    "Contrived"!

    That's the word! It's not that it's bad per se. Not at all, it isn't. Most parts are incredible. They just do not have a single, simple unified vision.

    To me, that vision still exists in Frontierland (although there's a definite lack of attractions) and, in a certain way, Fantasyland.

  3. #33

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    To answer the original question, the post-Walt rides & shows that I love and would not want to see go away are:

    Indy / Dinosaur
    Fantasmic
    Soarin
    Expedition Everest
    Test Track
    Mission Space
    Tower of Terror (FL version)
    All of DisneySea (although I haven't been there)

    And it's DisneySea that proves that Disney is more than capable of not just living up to Walt's standards but exceeding them (again, from what I've seen in pictures). Although there are some people in charge of things at Disney that should be fired immedeately for the things they've done to Walt's park (Tomorrowland), I've often wondered if Walt Disney himself would have been able to be as successful in today's corporate environment where you absolute must show an increase in profits every quarter no matter what you have to do. Someone else paid for the majority of DisneySea and so Disney was free to be as creative as they were capable of and the results are what is by all acounts the best theme park in the world. Could Disney be able to build and pay for something like DisneySea today in the US even if it meant a temporary downturn in their stock? I don't think Bob Iger can. If they ever have another CEO with a name as iconic as Walt Disney or even Michael Eisner, someone that everyone knows and someone that the shareholders trust, then maybe.
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  4. #34

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    DisneySea, AFAIK, has nothing to do with Disney, other than the licensed name. And I agree, everything I've read about it makes me think it's the greatest park to bear that name.

  5. #35

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_M View Post
    Part of the Genius of Walt Disney was knowing good work when he saw it and bringing it into the Disney Family. While not theme park attractions, Many of Disney's films were based on works created outside of Walt's writers and animators. He had to get the rights to Mary Poppins, Alice in Wonderland, the Jungle Book, Winnie the Pooh, Song of the South; the list goes on. I see bringing Star Wars, Indy and even Pixar into the parks as just a continuation of what Walt was doing from the very beginning. finding good stories and giving them the Disney touch.
    And this is a common response.

    The big difference though is Star Wars and Indiana Jones were never movies that morphed through Disney first....with ensuing attractions laid down in the park to represent the Disneyfied version of those movies. What you see at Disneyland in those respective attractions come straight from those movies; movies that had nothing to do with Disney.

    All those other movies you mentioned indeed had origins outside of Disney. But there were multitudes of versions for a lot of those stories already out and about. From the original work, to children's versions, you name it. Disney did get the rights, but he made these classics his own, and they're recognizable as such. And that's what you see in the parks. Disney's version of those classic tales.

    Star Wars and Indiana Jones never went through any sort of Disney treatment where Disney made them their own first......and then created attractions to go with them.

    So there is a difference. Star Tours and IJA remained largely true to their original movies, which were not Disney. The other attractions mentioned were those that Disney made his own first.......and then represented them in his parks as he saw those classic tales.

  6. #36

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Honestly, I have to disagree to some extent. I'm only 16 but I have gone mostly every of my life. I just love Disneyland because of the rides, the happiness, the music, the magic. And I love making memories with my family. The thing is, I really appreciate the buildings, the decorations, the bells and whistles, and all the details. It's what makes it so magical. But I love the rides! Yeah, they could probably get rid of toontown and I wouldn't care but that's more geared toward children. I loved going there when I was younger. Now, I love Splash, Thunder, and Space Mountain - my whole family does too. While you may not like some rides, other people do. They shouldn't take those out. Some things deserve to remain unchanged like fo example, the Markethouse on Main Street. That makes me so mad. They put in Starbucks instead? I live 90 miles away from Seattle, the place where Starbucks originated. Everyone here loves coffee and I get enough of Starbucks. But the Markethouse was original, one of a kind. But they've replaced it with yet another copy. I wouldn't mind if they added the People Mover back in, or other things, but I don't think they should take something out that is popular now.

  7. #37

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by CASurfer65 View Post
    And this is a common response.

    The big difference though is Star Wars and Indiana Jones were never movies that morphed through Disney first....with ensuing attractions laid down in the park to represent the Disneyfied version of those movies. What you see at Disneyland in those respective attractions come straight from those movies; movies that had nothing to do with Disney.

    All those other movies you mentioned indeed had origins outside of Disney. But there were multitudes of versions for a lot of those stories already out and about. From the original work, to children's versions, you name it. Disney did get the rights, but he made these classics his own, and they're recognizable as such. And that's what you see in the parks. Disney's version of those classic tales.

    Star Wars and Indiana Jones never went through any sort of Disney treatment where Disney made them their own first......and then created attractions to go with them.

    So there is a difference. Star Tours and IJA remained largely true to their original movies, which were not Disney. The other attractions mentioned were those that Disney made his own first.......and then represented them in his parks as he saw those classic tales.
    You're also assuming that Disney wouldn't have possibly tried to buy those ideas before they even became movies.

    Basically, who knows what Walt would have done in this day and age. Maybe he would have adapted with the times, or maybe he would have stuck with what he knew and got left behind (I'd bet my money on him evolving). People talk about armchair-Imagineering, but what ends up happening when people talk about Disney today vs Walt's Disney is armcharing what Walt would have done. It's pointless and it leads to incredibly heated arguments from both sides.

  8. #38

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by Nirya View Post
    You're also assuming that Disney wouldn't have possibly tried to buy those ideas before they even became movies.

    Basically, who knows what Walt would have done in this day and age. Maybe he would have adapted with the times, or maybe he would have stuck with what he knew and got left behind (I'd bet my money on him evolving). People talk about armchair-Imagineering, but what ends up happening when people talk about Disney today vs Walt's Disney is armcharing what Walt would have done. It's pointless and it leads to incredibly heated arguments from both sides.
    I'm not assuming anything.
    I'm calling attention to the fact that Walt obtained rights to classics, made them his own, and then put attractions in his park that were based on HIS take on those stories.
    Indiana Jones and Star Wars didn't get any Disney treatment first.
    Simple observation.
    How Walt would have "evolved" (or not) is something we'll never know.
    Maybe he would have bought "Singing in the Rain" from MGM, "Psycho" from Universal, etc. and built attractions based on those movies.
    I have no idea.
    My comments are based simply on what he did do while he was with us.
    Would he have evolved? Maybe. I'm certainly not going to bet my money on it....I have no idea. That would be arm-chairing it.

  9. #39

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    You guys need to start a new thread to debate that. It's very interesting and I'm enjoying the read. But this thread started as asking people what makes Disneyland special.

    So, back to the original concept. I've already stated what makes the Disneyland special for me. But when I look at new pictures from the park I am still amazed at it's overall beauty. It's a 'big picture' place.
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  10. #40

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    One thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that Disney lost almost everything during Ron Millers time. No good movies, no good park attractions. I suppose Eisner came in and never trusted his internal team as much as earlier leaders did - so he started getting rights for developed franchises. Even Miller tried to do the same with Lucas.

    IMHO, Walts biggest mistake was giving so much power to an inexperienced jock just because of family connections. And although the park is beautiful, I have to think part of its issues started during Millers time.

  11. #41

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    I just love how it brings out the inner child in all of us. I love walking down mainstreet and seeing all the smiles on everyone's faces, looking in all the shops and seeing all types of diversity. Even people from who knows where love Disney and they travel half the earth to get close to Disney. It also makes me feel so comfortable and make me forget about everyday worries and the work life back home. It is a place to relax and kick back. Remember, IT IS THE HAPPIEST PLACE ON EARTH!!

  12. #42

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by fjhuerta View Post
    One thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that Disney lost almost everything during Ron Millers time. No good movies, no good park attractions. I suppose Eisner came in and never trusted his internal team as much as earlier leaders did - so he started getting rights for developed franchises. Even Miller tried to do the same with Lucas.

    IMHO, Walts biggest mistake was giving so much power to an inexperienced jock just because of family connections. And although the park is beautiful, I have to think part of its issues started during Millers time.
    Did RM really have all that much power during Walt's time though? Sure, his name was on a lot of movies through the late 60s/70s. But it seemed like his higher positions in the company (i.e. positions that would be more likely to impact the company's overall fiscal livelihood) didn't come until 1979. and then a few years later when he was named CEO. Of course, he only held this position for one year before Eisner/Wells came in.

    Some have posited that the company was already heading for problems when he took over, and that considering the times, righting the ship would have been difficult for a lot of people. Did it really all come to a halt in those few short years, or did he just happen to take over at a bad time?

    The fact that RM was not a trained businessman didn't help though, I'm sure.

    It seems though like I've heard him interviewed and he never really pretended to be anything more than he was. He was a college football player who met Walt's daughter when they were in college together. They got married. Walt didn't want his son-in-law getting beat up on the football field, gave him a job, and he worked his way around the company.

  13. #43

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Quote Originally Posted by MRaymond View Post
    You guys need to start a new thread to debate that. It's very interesting and I'm enjoying the read. But this thread started as asking people what makes Disneyland special.

    So, back to the original concept. I've already stated what makes the Disneyland special for me. But when I look at new pictures from the park I am still amazed at it's overall beauty. It's a 'big picture' place.
    You'll find that there's a lot of room for overlap on these boards though too when it comes to certain discussions. That's what happens.

    If a person comments on Walt's influence and what a positive impact it has on his visits to the park…and then compares it to what's going on today, that's going to open up some discussion.

    It's all good. And it's all related.

    You have a person who feels its Walt's touches that make it special. But you'll find that when that opinion is expressed, it will bring in debates that suggest it isn't just what Walt influenced that is special, and so on and so on and so on.

    And that's precisely the topic of this thread.

    What makes the park special to fjhuerta and those who largely agree with him (including me), doesn't always fly with others. Hence a debate. Which is what discussion boards are about ultimately.

    I don't really see this thread drifting all that much.

  14. #44

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    Yeah, and I find that I actually do enjoy many places I wasn't aware of (BT) far more than I thought. All opinions are welcome!

  15. #45

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    Re: Did you ever stop and wonder what is it that maybe you love DL because of....

    I definitely liked the family atmosphere during our annual Disneyland visits. It was just a special time being there and getting to ride with my sister or mother or even dad. I liked to hear his grumblings about how much better Nature did caverns than Disneyland. He even made a special vacation to take us to Carlsbad Caverns to show us a real cave. Yes, I was impressed with Carlsbad Caverns but I did certainly loved our visits and couldn't wait for the next one.

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