View Poll Results: Is it hopeless to expect a non tie-in ride?

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  • Yes, Disney will not make an original ride.

    10 26.32%
  • Sort of, I have faith that there is a chance Disney will make an original ride

    18 47.37%
  • No, the chances of making an original ride vs tie in is 50/50

    10 26.32%
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  1. #1

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    Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    I am a southern California resident and have lived here my entire life and have wonderful memories of Disneyland. As the years went on I noticed a trend in terms of rides and attractions. Everything coming out seems like it has to promote an existing franchise so Disney can advertise for toys and merchandise sales. To me this cheapens what makes Disneyland so special.

    Some of my favorite rides are Pirates (which also had to be updated as an advertisement), Haunted Mansion, Captain EO, and Space Mountain. These are all original concepts, not made as promotion of any series. I feel like Disney will never again make original attractions. That being said, there are some really well done attractions based off other franchises. I understand that when you are investing tens of millions of dollars into a ride, making it a tie-in is a great way to insure the investment pays off.

    However, I have the mindset that creating brand new attractions can build up the park even more and have its own unique merchandise. If you look at how well loved the old attractions are, just imagine the future potential of an original attraction opening. With Tomorowland becoming Star Wars land and Animal Kingdom opening Avatar land, I feel even more hopeless.

    In fact, I would not be surprised if in the future all Disney rides are based off pre-existing franchises.

    Does anybody else feel hopeless for rides with original concepts?
    Last edited by Nesboy43; 02-02-2014 at 12:36 PM.

  2. #2

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    Walt used his past creations as inspiration for many of the rides he developed so I really don't have too much of a problem with tie-ins. But I admit that a completely original ride would be nice.
    As long as the new stuff is adequately funded to be something truly great, I don't really care which way it goes. The quality of the ride is first and foremost in my mind.

  3. #3

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    I feel like it is kind of the way it was with DCA. Not a lot of Disney properties were tied in with the California locale when the built the park, so they had to come up with a lot of newness within the theme. I just can't imagine a lot of opportunities for non tied-in attractions going into DL itself.

    I'm really hoping the 3rd park, when built, will have a much more 'open' theming than just 'Marvelland,' or 'Star Wars Land' to allow this to happen. If they do something broader, like my favorite idea, "Disney's World Adventure' (think lands based on the historic 4 corners of the world/continents of Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America), there would be plenty of room both for both new ideas in areas & lands not heavily propertied, as well as rides based on classic Disney movies.
    "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." - ​Walt Disney

  4. #4

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    While new rides are more often bound to be themed to a franchise, I still have hope that they will one day create an attraction with an original concept. Look at Mystic Manor in Hong Kong. It shares similarities to the Haunted Mansion, but it's a brand new story and an excellent attraction.
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  5. #5

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    ORWEN: I've said it before and I'll say it again. I PREFER rides and attractions at the Disney theme parks that are tied to movies because the only reason I care about going to a Disney theme park--at all--is because of the Disney movies that so many of the attractions are based on. I can't relate to anyone who prefers attractions without a movie tie-in, myself. I mean, that just doesn't make much sense to me.

  6. #6

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    I'm not completely hopeless. Its hard to believe that everyone working at imagineering wants to develop an attraction based off a franchise. I'm sure there is plenty of originality going on over there, and whether it takes a shuffling in management or a change in trends, I think we'll eventually see something new.

  7. #7

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    It's really about execution. Poorly executed original attractions made up most of DCA 1.0. Unfortunately the suits thought the real problem was a lack of Disney brand familiarity. Yes it was part of the problem but ONLY part of the problem.

    Despite the expansion plans for Harry Potter, I'm hoping the "movie-land" hype will eventually began to die. Some audiences are already losing a lack of interest in it.

    To me Carsland will be closest that Disney will ever get to competing with Harry Potter, even with Star Wars under its belt.
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  8. #8

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    I agree with those saying the quality and execution is most important, you can have a park full (mostly) of original rides and have it (mostly) suck *cough* DCA *cough* that you then have to reinvest more then you spent originally to fix. Lets look at how many themed attractions there were when it opened - Muppets, ITTBAB, King Triton's Carousel... Am I missing anything?? Now DCA is mostly themed to movie properties however the things that worked before without tie ins were left alone (I'm looking at GRR, Soarin, Screamin) which were easily the 3 attractions on opening day that were actually made well.

    All that said, I'm fine with movie tie-ins as long as they are executed well and they don't replace an amazing attraction with a bad one (Pooh replaced country Bears). But look at Innoventions, until the hall of Iron Man suits got installed nobody ever went in the building except to escape the heat. Now they are turning the upstairs in to a mini Avengers base with Iron Man, Thor and soon Captain America. And I couldn't be happier. I'd rather an all new attraction but for a temporary thing, I'll take it, it gives boys a chance to meet their favorite heroes from the big screen while the princesses are there for the girls. Girls have had the princesses and pixie hollow for a long time, Boys had nothing like it. Now they get the Avengers, and they have a Star Wars show, but you still can't pose for a photo and get an autograph from Darth Vader (who is one I'd love to meet with).
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  9. #9

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    Not until a 3rd gate opens. Disney seems to like to build a couple long term original rides and let the characters fill in the rest. DL already has its untouchable originals. Same with DCA. Once a 3rd gate comes it too will get its original future untouchables.
    In the quest for quality, I have no problem with the characters footing the bill.

  10. #10

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesboy43 View Post
    I am a southern California resident and have lived here my entire life and have wonderful memories of Disneyland. As the years went on I noticed a trend in terms of rides and attractions. Everything coming out seems like it has to promote an existing franchise so Disney can advertise for toys and merchandise sales. To me this cheapens what makes Disneyland so special.

    Some of my favorite rides are Pirates (which also had to be updated as an advertisement), Haunted Mansion, Captain EO, and Space Mountain. These are all original concepts, not made as promotion of any series. I feel like Disney will never again make original attractions. That being said, there are some really well done attractions based off other franchises. I understand that when you are investing tens of millions of dollars into a ride, making it a tie-in is a great way to insure the investment pays off.

    However, I have the mindset that creating brand new attractions can build up the park even more and have its own unique merchandise. If you look at how well loved the old attractions are, just imagine the future potential of an original attraction opening. With Tomorowland becoming Star Wars land and Animal Kingdom opening Avatar land, I feel even more hopeless.

    In fact, I would not be surprised if in the future all Disney rides are based off pre-existing franchises.

    Does anybody else feel hopeless for rides with original concepts?
    You could even add several other famous Disney attractions that are not based on a Disney property. The Jungle Cruise doesn't have blatant movie theme, nor does the Matterhorn, It's Small World, Great Moments With Mr Lincoln, Adventures through Inner Space, etc . . .

    BUT, I don't feel as hopeless as you do, there are other reasons that concern me. (The WDW handcuffs, and the HORRID decision to buy the rights for Avatar, DO concern me )

    When you look at opening DCA, MANY of those attractions were NOT based on any Disney Franchise:

    Soarin' Over California, which was by far and away the most successful part of DCA 1.0, No Movie tie in, and copied to other Disney Parks. This does prove that Disney can still develop a successful attraction Not based on a Disney franchise.

    Grizzly River Rapids, again no Disney movie tie in, a fairly respectable attraction, although the lack of animatronics don't make it as impressive as something like Big Thunder

    California Screamin - the biggest attraction on Paradise Pier (although very unDisney with its lack of a non-amusement park theme.)

    Maliboomer - no movie theme

    Orange Stinger - no movie theme

    Golden Zephyr - no movie theme

    Jumpin Jellyfish - although a copy of an attraction from the Little Mermaid

    Redwood Creek Challenge Trail - no movie theme

    the infamous Superstar Limo - not themed to any Disney franchise

    BUT none of those rides/attractions gave us the same kind of presence like Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean, which are really the most popular in terms of unique Disneyland merchandise.

    And of course when you look at DCA 2.0 you can't help but recognize Flik's Fun Fair and Radiator Springs, lands based on single movies, but also take notice of the new themed area of Buena Vista street, which is not based on a Disney movie, or the Red Car Trolley - also Not based on a movie.

    (However, Too many rides built on the cheap does and did concern me about DCA)


    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    It's really about execution. Poorly executed original attractions made up most of DCA 1.0. Unfortunately the suits thought the real problem was a lack of Disney brand familiarity. Yes it was part of the problem but ONLY part of the problem.

    Despite the expansion plans for Harry Potter, I'm hoping the "movie-land" hype will eventually began to die. Some audiences are already losing a lack of interest in it.

    To me Carsland will be closest that Disney will ever get to competing with Harry Potter, even with Star Wars under its belt.

    Yes, they did create some interesting and unique merchandise for Radiator Springs, And it appears that they did expand outside their normal range of pins and mugs. Too bad they didn't do that for Flick's Fun Fair. Tower of Terror even had more unique merchandise when it first opened. I really wish Merchandising was more imaginative, it's really too often they get complacent and rely on the same old, old things.

    The detail that Disney put into attractions like Haunted Mansion and Pirates is still paying off today. It it is disappointing that they can't Imagineer an attraction at great as those are, anymore.

  11. #11

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    i would vote yes just last year Mystic Manor opened. I don't see why they can't make more.

  12. #12

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    ^^^
    I have to agree.

    With Mystic Manor and Grizzly Gulch in HKDL having just opened ... We know Disney "could" still greenlight original content .. and come out good.

    I'm reticent to throw in the towel ... with those 2 original concepts having been built.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nesboy43 View Post
    If you look at how well loved the old attractions are, just imagine the future potential of an original attraction opening. With Tomorowland becoming Star Wars land and Animal Kingdom opening Avatar land, I feel even more hopeless.
    "Becoming" -??

    There is no "becoming" - I think some people have latched on to these "TL Star Wars" rumors .. .and continue to believe them, as if they are really going to happen.

    So far, there is absolutely no proof to suggest it's happening. All there is .. is rumor. That's it .. rumor.

    Can all we at this point ... Catch our breath and realize this "TL becoming Star Wars land" is only rumor.

    Okay?

    No evidence .. No proof it's happening.

    Is it a worry? ABSOLUTELY! But some websites consistently regurgitating their own rumor talk as truth ... Well, lets just wait and see.

    And remember .. Iger never said "where" Star Wars ideas are to go. And before anyone completely wants to follow those words from Iger .. remember this too - Eisner's "Disney Decade" announcement! (CEOs 'Talk' can be a bag full of hot air too!)

    And that's where I come in to this topic - Anything can happen with Tomorrowland. Nothing has happened yet. And I will continue to have hope of at least one new original ride. Perhaps a land that maintains it's "place-making" originality.

    And just because the current management up in Burbank is pushing nothing but IP content for the DLR .. doesn't mean future management teams will think the same as previous ones. Nothing is set in stone.
    Last edited by Tomorrowland_1967; 02-02-2014 at 05:41 PM.
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  13. #13

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    Hmmm... well, it's complicated. There's things Imagineers like to do and work on/pitch in the time between projects, and then the things those same Imagineers actually end up working on to be built... and they are not necessarily the same. Imagineering is a design studio with a somewhat competitive environment, largely consisting of many design teams competing with each other for their specific project to be built. Disneyland Resort might come in and say "We need proposals for ______" and if a team thinks attaching a character to their concept is what's going to get it approved (and yes, the higher-up powers do like the synergy/merchandise opportunities/making Iger happy that the characters provide), then that's what they're going to do. The client seldom comes in and says "you HAVE to attach characters to this," so it is largely voluntary on Imagineering's part. But even many Imagineers are frustrated by the idea that only character-based projects ever seem to move forward.

    So it's not impossible for Disney to create original attractions, but it's difficult and always unlikely.
    Last edited by MarkTwain; 02-02-2014 at 08:20 PM.


  14. #14

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    Every Disney park has the same thing in common, it had tie ins to movies.

    Not just DCA, but also Epcot were too original and had characters added to fix the problem.

    HM is really an oddity. Pirates have been a common recurring theme in media since Robinson Crusoe was written 300 years ago. Westerns were extremely popular when DL was built, which is why it has a Frontierland. Space replaced westerns on the tv and we got Space Mountain. HM stands along however haunted house were common and DL built one with a story line.

    Inspiration come from somewhere, because original ideas are anomalies.
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  15. #15

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    Re: Does anyone else feel hopeless for non tie-in rides?

    There's an awful lot of non-franchise-tie-in attractions that are very popular. Off the top of my head ...

    Haunted Mansion
    Pirates of the Caribbean - wasn't a franchise when it was built
    Space Mountain
    Big Thunder Mountain
    Soarin
    Jungle Cruise

    Not to mention several popular attractions based on intellectual property largely forgotten by the time the attraction was built ...

    Splash Mountain
    Tower of Terror
    Matterhorn

    I have to assume that at some point in the park's future (could be 15-20 years from now) someone will achieve a position of influence that realizes the potential of starting franchises (like Pirates) at the parks, rather than simply using them for inspiration. There have not been that many new attractions built in the USA since Expedition Everest was built.


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