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  1. #16

    • Yes ... Wicked! ;)
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    FYI ... from how I understand it ... 2 people that paid for the Walk In Walt's Footstep's Tour in FULL ($49.00) got on HIS tour. At the end of the tour they asked when they were going to see the lobby of Club 33 and where their included lunch was. From what I understand (remember this is ALL hearsay) he then told them ... oh you are on the wrong tour and then bolted! Also, from what I have been told his tour is VERY negative, and someone DID follow it. Saying things like ...Disney does this wrong ... Michael Eisner Blah blah blah ... this is wrong with Disneyland... blah blah blah. It was also said that the people who booked their tour with him were under the impression that they were getting the REAL Walk in Walt's Footstep's tour ... and so that is why! I am sure that there are other things that he was doing that was NOT kosher ... otherwise Anaheim PD would not have showed up! I am not sure if the name of his tour is close to the name of the real tour. But the fact that the departure dates are the same ... it causes a BIG problem. And if I were in charge at Disneyland ... I wouldn't want someone to take a NEGATIVE tour about the park either! Disneyland has about 5 different tours (some that are only offered during the holiday time) and ALL of the tours are AWESOME! I think that Security, Anaheim PD and any others who were involved in the situation handled it fine! (Remember this is what I think after what I had been told about the situation!)

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver
    It's not trespassing if you have a ticket or AP... But again, what bothers me about this is what this portends for the future freedom of the DL secret police to come and shuttle you out if they don't like what you're saying... I agree with JH on this issue... Isn't free speech guaranteed in the Constitution?

    The Federal Gov't did not tell him to stop talking- a private corporation did. The First Amendment applies only when the Gov't tries to silence you.

    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver
    It's not trespassing if you have a ticket or AP... But again, what bothers me about this is what this portends for the future freedom of the DL secret police to come and shuttle you out if they don't like what you're saying... I agree with JH on this issue... Isn't free speech guaranteed in the Constitution?
    You might want to read that ticket or AP again.
    It's called, "Creating a disturbance." Yes, it's subject to interpretation, but a few large security guards and actual Anaheim Police personnel will be able to persuade most people to leave in this situation. And, who would the courts side with? Probably the owner who declared a disurbance was occurring on his property. Then the court would have to decide whether it was a disturbance according to the owner's actions involving others holding tours. My guess is that all those other tours being held in foreign languages have clearance by the owner to hold tours, especially in languages not offered by the owner. I would also guess that Jim Hill did not ask for permission from the owner to hold his tour.
    DL is not a public square. It's private property. Private property laws should trump all other laws. If they don't, it wouldn't be worth the effort of owning property, and our capitalist society would not exist. I.e., a place like Disneyland would not have been built without some rights regarding access and removal of guests from the property.

  4. #19

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    I think that its well within Disney's rights to kick Jim Hill out. Complaints are complaints, and the fact that his tour (a tour which he had no permission to host) got complaints to City Hall is enough for Disney to question him. The interests of the Disney Co. were flagrantly disregarded by Jim Hill... I could see if he was leading some friends around on a "tour" or some out-of-state family... but from what I understand, this was open to anybody and he apparently didn't notify people attending his "tour" that it was a non-Disney tour. I think the lack of a nametag alone isnt enough warning to tour-goers that it ISNT a Disney tour...

    I just don't like this Jim Hill guy. I havent seen a single thing he's said on his website even become remotely accurate... granted, I dont read his site on a regular basis, but what I have read always reads like a fantastic look at what HE wants to happen, not what is really going to happen or what should happen...

    In my honest opinion, Jim Hill is a hack and Disney has every right to kick him out of their park if HIS TOUR is causing COMPLAINTS TO DISNEY.

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  5. #20

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    I don't think it's an issue of freedom of speech. It's an issue of him leading a tour that people probably thought was legit, only to find out that he's full of it. He can say anything he wants, he does it all the time. Never the less...he's still a moron.

  6. #21

    • Yes ... Wicked! ;)
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    I was just reading everyone's post. (After I just posted ... I know I do thing backwards ... but I wanted to state my opinion and keep my POV.) Ummm ... first off, he DID charge for the tour. Second ... I think it is SOOO funny that people STILL think that security can just do WHAT ever they want ... they are VERY limited in WHAT they can and can't do. I agree, that there are more times then none when they SHOULD kick someone out of the park, and for legal reasons they CAN'T. This Jim guy was NOT kicked out the park. He was advised to discontinue doing his tour! You don't trick a bunch of guests and Disneyland, have them complain about it and NOTHING be done about it ... I mean really! In the same light ... we do not allow guests to come into the park dressed like characters because it could mislead some of adult and young guests! So why would we allow someone to conduct a tour, starting off at the same time as our own, that showcases our park in a horrible light? It wasn't fair to our guests who PAID for the tour thinking they were getting the real deal ... so in turn ... they were getting ripped off since they DID pay for the tour. Just like Security would stop a guest who was trying to sell on of their tickets at the main entrance. I see them as the same deal, really. It all has to do with us protecting our guests who might not know better!

  7. #22

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    Alright, people, let's not start ripping on me for having an issue here... My main concern is not JH, whether he got banned, or the quality of his tours. My one and only concern is with the fact that Disneyland called out the goon squad to remove someone, not because they were causing problems, but because they didn't like what he was saying. This is how the erosion of rights and fearmongering starts. If they can remove and ban someone who was not causing a scene, strictly on the basis of what they were saying, what's to stop them from throwing any of us out of the park, if WE say something negative? They may be monitoring the boards here, looking to boot some of us for speaking our minds. It's overkill, is all I'm saying. If they had said he can't continue the tours, I'd be annoyed, but understand. But to kick him out, bann him, and threaten arrest on baseless charges? Is DL security using KGB training manuals these days? It's just too much

    That all being said, we don't really know what happened... We have his side of things, and that's all. Could be he WAS causing trouble, and continued to do so, when approached by security. If this is the case, he deserves the boot. We just don't know. I simply advise caution in such action, as it can lead to future complications...
    Honor those who fall under the sword.
    But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

  8. #23

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    They didn't boot him first off. They certainly didn't boot him for speaking his mind, and won't do the same to us! They told him to STOP conducting his tour because he was misleading guests! And guests don't know any better. They think that when they come to Disneyland they don't have to have their guard up. He deserves to be approached by security since he was essentially ripping our guests off! If you were a guest who didn't know any better ... you would have wanted Security to intervene as well. Anaheim PD was calling in because this was the SECOND day in the row that it happened!

  9. #24

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    I don't think anyone is trying to rip on you at all! You are certainly entitled to you opinion. I think the issue was the guests who took the tour accidentally thinking it was the official tour. Yes, it was probably a dumb thing to do, but if that is what happened, then I think Disney did the right think asking him to stop. They are not going to shut down his website, so he can say whatever he wants there, but inside the park, City Hall has an obligation to protect the majority of guests from being ripped off, even if it wasn't intentional.
    They wouldn't let someone set up their own merchandise stand and sell fake merchandise within the park, the tours are a product that only Disney has the right to sell and I know I wouldn't take a tour within the park unless it was official- who knows where this guy gets his info and if it is even accurate? I would be more likely to go on a tour that Al gave or one of the other mods would give as it would be in the spirit of fun and exploring the magic, not exploiting it.
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  10. #25

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    I don't think you could expect any other action from DL.
    The marketing and selling of products and experiences in Disneyland has to belong solely to them. They have to protect their own image to the public. It isn't the kind of open destination for tour vendors, like Paris, or Hawaii. I do not find it unreasonable that they would not want outside vending of any kind that they did not obtain. I don't believe Mr. Hill has the right to charge people for a tour in DL. I have given many tours of DL to friends and loved ones, as I am sure you all have. But we don't have the right to charge a fee in competition with DL's own tour. that is ridiculous, and I organize and sell tours myself.

  11. #26

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    while I'm not really a fan of Jim Hill and I don't buy into most of what he says I tend to agree with those against what appears to be blacklisting him

    I don't think Disney should have the right to escort him out of the park or handle the situation in the way that they did

    it probably would've been better for everyone to have requested of Jim to change the name of his "tour" to something like a website meet or something that doesn't sound offical and also request of him to make sure that everyone in his group know that it is NOT an official tour

    people have the right to meet as a group and as long as he keeps within his group and doesn't overtly go out and butt into other peoples trips that I don't really see a problem with his tour (especialy since the opposite appeared to happen and people ran into his buisness)

    Jim has the right to say whatever he likes it's not like it's hurting anyone, heck CAST members have said worse (I believe some cast members have gone as far as to telling guests that they believe that Big Thunder SHOULDN"T have reopend and lets not forget all the rumors and stuff that cast members themselves spout)

    it probably would've been better for both sides to come to some sort of an agreement or something

  12. #27

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    I didn't know he was actually CHARGING PEOPLE for the tour! Yikes! That makes it even worse!

    It's like going to Best Buy and bringing in your burnt DVDs and selling those to consumers as if it were the real deal all the while convienently avoiding telling people that you don't work for Best Buy. Of course Best Buy would kick you out and you'd probably get arrested.

    He was selling a product (the tour) on Disney property illegally. Disney had every right to tell him to knock it off.

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  13. #28

    • Reaver of Souls
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    If he WAS charging, that's an issue, and should have been stopped immediately. I don't condone anyone selling anything (be it services, merchandise, etc) in the park other than Disney. That's wrong, and illegal. Shame on him if he was.
    Honor those who fall under the sword.
    But pity the warrior who has slain all his enemies.

  14. #29

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    I don't think it could've happend to a better guy....
    I don't like that guy, nor do I read any of the garbage he post on his website.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reaver
    If he WAS charging, that's an issue, and should have been stopped immediately. I don't condone anyone selling anything (be it services, merchandise, etc) in the park other than Disney. That's wrong, and illegal. Shame on him if he was.
    - Not illegal. It is private property. If the tour was unpaid, then they are just a group of people touring DL, and there is really not much that DL should do. If they are paying Jim Hill, then Jim is conducting commerce in their property and they absoulty have the right to shut it down, and I think they should. I would if I were them.

    Jim's reference to the first amendment "To be honest, I'm not sure. I can't help but think that the First Amendment sort-of, kind-of covers this issue. The right to tell somewhat embarassing stories about the Mouse. That's somewhere in the Constitution ... isn't it?" is ludicrous. This is not a First Amendment issue.

    I just wish Disney would be as agressive with other unruly guests too.

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