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  1. #16

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Wherever the numbers come from, I'm curious what impact "The Year of A Million Refurbishments" will have on them next year.
    "I know this is probably your first flight, and it's...mine too!"

  2. #17

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    All time record for both parks, sounds like they're doing awful. DCA had been stuck around six, now it's at 8.5, that's a huge increase. The fact that DCA maintained it's growth and still grew more in a year with nothing new sounds positive to me. You have claimed DCA would be down from its 2012 numbers, but you like to think you're right.
    Remember, too that 2013 was the first full year for Buena Vista St. And Carsland. I certainly hope 2013 was better than 2012 for DCA.

  3. #18

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9oldmen View Post
    Remember, too that 2013 was the first full year for Buena Vista St. And Carsland. I certainly hope 2013 was better than 2012 for DCA.
    I know, but it was there for all the busy months of the year.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  4. #19

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    I'm surprised DCA went up by nearly 1 million in 2013, especially when you factor in how the queues for Maters, Luigi's, and to a certain extent Racers in 2013 were a fraction of what they were the summer and December of 2012. I think guests are starting to realize they don't need to put up with Disneyland's crowded walkways and long lines. DCA has a handful of E-tickets, Aladdin, and WoC everyday with relatively short lines and I think guests are finally starting to notice this. 2014 will be an interesting year since Mermaid's and Grizzly's refurbishments hurt DCA but you could say the same about Big Thunder, Indy, Nemo, and Space Mountain refurbs. In between the Frozen Meet-and-Greet and the Ana and Elsa pre-parade this summer, I think Disneyland is capable of posting at least a 2-4% increase for 2014 instead of the abysmal 1.5% of 2013.

  5. #20

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdycm View Post
    I'm surprised DCA went up by nearly 1 million in 2013, especially when you factor in how the queues for Maters, Luigi's, and to a certain extent Racers in 2013 were a fraction of what they were the summer and December of 2012. I think guests are starting to realize they don't need to put up with Disneyland's crowded walkways and long lines. DCA has a handful of E-tickets, Aladdin, and WoC everyday with relatively short lines and I think guests are finally starting to notice this. 2014 will be an interesting year since Mermaid's and Grizzly's refurbishments hurt DCA but you could say the same about Big Thunder, Indy, Nemo, and Space Mountain refurbs. In between the Frozen Meet-and-Greet and the Ana and Elsa pre-parade this summer, I think Disneyland is capable of posting at least a 2-4% increase for 2014 instead of the abysmal 1.5% of 2013.
    I was impressed that DL actually went up at all. I was expecting DL to go down about 2%. I think this clearly shows the next new project should still go into DCA.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  6. #21

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I know, but it was there for all the busy months of the year.
    I thought that they're all busy months. That's what the "get rid of all APs, they're killing our off season!" people keep saying. Seriously, you can't tell me that Carsland did nothing to improve the attendance for the first 6 months of 2013. Heck, with the new turnstyle locations and Carsland, you had a park that if nothing else, had slightly higher capacity then before, and that right there should have made a difference.

  7. #22

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9oldmen View Post
    I thought that they're all busy months. That's what the "get rid of all APs, they're killing our off season!" people keep saying. Seriously, you can't tell me that Carsland did nothing to improve the attendance for the first 6 months of 2013. Heck, with the new turnstyle locations and Carsland, you had a park that if nothing else, had slightly higher capacity then before, and that right there should have made a difference.
    Of course it helped in 2013, but some were predicting DCA's attendance would actually be down from 2012.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  8. #23

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    You have claimed DCA would be down from its 2012 numbers, but you like to think you're right.
    I do remember saying they should be down this year. I forgot that Carsland wasn't opened the full 12 months of the year. Apparently these attendance estimates are coming out later and later each year. It certainly seems reasonable now that the attendance from Cars land should have less of an impact this year and next year. I suppose I can't claim to be surprised by anything, but it would be weird if attendance at DCA climbed any further for this year.

    The point still remains though: Disney has now spent somewhere between 2 and 3 billion dollars on DCA, and still have the least attended domestic Disney park in California. In the world, only 1 Disney park has lower attendance than DCA (the studio park in Paris) and DCA still has the second lowest retention rate of any of the 2nd gates:

    DisneySea: 82%
    Epcot: 61%
    DCA: 52%
    WDS: 42%

    That DCA is still not pulling in higher numbers than the third and fourth park in WDW shows how weak the tourist market in Anaheim still is. Disney hasn't added any hotel capacity in Anaheim and they currently have no plans to. There is a reason for that. They also have said they have no plans to build a third park. It's clear from the attendance numbers why: they still have a LONG way to go to get DCA up to speed.

    Assuming that I am right, that DCA is still under performing against other Disney parks, Disney will have two options: give up entirely on the West Coast and continue a plan of just sustainment, or keep trying to add value to the EXISTING parks to increase tourism. This is why rumors of Star Wars in Tomorrowland and Monsters in Hollywood have been so persistent: they are all highlighted the desire to get the current infrastructure fully utilized. They need to build another hotel before they can move on to building a third gate.

    It's not that the attendance numbers came as such a shock either: Disney was obviously not happy with their visitor mix due to the return of the So Cal discounting this spring. The adjustments they've made to the Annual Pass program is another indication that something is wrong. They are certainly busy, but it's not the TYPE of busy they want.

  9. #24

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerdycm View Post
    I'm surprised DCA went up by nearly 1 million in 2013, especially when you factor in how the queues for Maters, Luigi's, and to a certain extent Racers in 2013 were a fraction of what they were the summer and December of 2012.
    It's possible that DCA's attendance numbers would actually be much lower than 2012 if not for the concurrent opening times and the fastpass for Racers. DCA's in park attendance could be much lower, while the turnstile counts remain high simply because people are heading into DCA for the shorter entrance lines and racer's fastpass before spending the rest of their day in Disneyland.

  10. #25

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    The problem with DCA is that it is at a resort where a lot of the guests are locals who go all the time and are emotionally tied to DL. DCA will never get a significant boost until DLR is made into a resort where a lot more tourists from out of state/northern California will come, which will probably only result with a third gate because not to many people are interested in taking a long/expensive flight to California to see two parks.
    Disney can also wait until the current adult generation of DL tied Californians is replaced by today's youth who judge the park on quality, not emotional ties, and DCA will see its attendance grow a lot then.

  11. #26

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Should also be noted that attendance is still going up despite annual price increases.

  12. #27

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I do remember saying they should be down this year. I forgot that Carsland wasn't opened the full 12 months of the year. Apparently these attendance estimates are coming out later and later each year. It certainly seems reasonable now that the attendance from Cars land should have less of an impact this year and next year. I suppose I can't claim to be surprised by anything, but it would be weird if attendance at DCA climbed any further for this year.

    The point still remains though: Disney has now spent somewhere between 2 and 3 billion dollars on DCA, and still have the least attended domestic Disney park in California. In the world, only 1 Disney park has lower attendance than DCA (the studio park in Paris) and DCA still has the second lowest retention rate of any of the 2nd gates:

    DisneySea: 82%
    Epcot: 61%
    DCA: 52%
    WDS: 42%

    That DCA is still not pulling in higher numbers than the third and fourth park in WDW shows how weak the tourist market in Anaheim still is. Disney hasn't added any hotel capacity in Anaheim and they currently have no plans to. There is a reason for that. They also have said they have no plans to build a third park. It's clear from the attendance numbers why: they still have a LONG way to go to get DCA up to speed.

    Assuming that I am right, that DCA is still under performing against other Disney parks, Disney will have two options: give up entirely on the West Coast and continue a plan of just sustainment, or keep trying to add value to the EXISTING parks to increase tourism. This is why rumors of Star Wars in Tomorrowland and Monsters in Hollywood have been so persistent: they are all highlighted the desire to get the current infrastructure fully utilized. They need to build another hotel before they can move on to building a third gate.

    It's not that the attendance numbers came as such a shock either: Disney was obviously not happy with their visitor mix due to the return of the So Cal discounting this spring. The adjustments they've made to the Annual Pass program is another indication that something is wrong. They are certainly busy, but it's not the TYPE of busy they want.
    I don't disagree about much of what you've said, but DCA was screwed up and redoing things is often more expensive then starting from scratch. They did a lot of smart things to reuse and much as they could, but DCA still doesn't remotely compare to TDS or Epcot so to expect to have s similar retention rate is silly. Those are close to ten billion dollar parks in today's dollars if you add up everything that has been done to them. So I completely agree that DCA still needs help prior to a third gate happening. But it's on a significantly better path and is moving consistently forward. Plus, the economy and theme park performance numbers are very strong this year, so I expect both parks to be up again this year, particularly withe higher spending tourists. However, I'm sure the current mix of guests is not where they want it, there's no doubt about that.

    I question how much DL really needs a major improvement to maximize its potential though. I think TL needs a facelift, if anything simply for the sake of maintaining brand image, but other then that, the park is drawing plenty of guests. I agree with you that many guests are going to DCA first to get RSR FP's. But that just means that DL is really getting many more guest hours then its numbers as reported. So really DL, despite its small size, in reality is much more busy then the MK. If Disney is going to get more people to visit, they need to find a way to get people out of DL for more of the day, or make major changes to the park, because its not able to handle more crowds.

    But in the end, I don't think they're going to be able to generate significantly more hotel nights unless or until they add a strong third gate. There is a major difference in viewing the DLR as a multi-day resort destination if it actually has three gates and more options for true resort quality hotels and when it's just two gates and two quality hotels. I just see it as a major perception difference. The reality is that even Epcot didn't do amazing right out of the gate. It's really after DHS was built was when they were really able to expand the hotel capacity.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  13. #28

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imagineer45 View Post
    The problem with DCA is that it is at a resort where a lot of the guests are locals who go all the time and are emotionally tied to DL. DCA will never get a significant boost until DLR is made into a resort where a lot more tourists from out of state/northern California will come, which will probably only result with a third gate because not to many people are interested in taking a long/expensive flight to California to see two parks.
    Disney can also wait until the current adult generation of DL tied Californians is replaced by today's youth who judge the park on quality, not emotional ties, and DCA will see its attendance grow a lot then.
    I very much agree with everything you have said. My daughter prefers DCA to Disneyland. But we prefer Disneyland. I guess Disneyland has more of the characters and rides which we grew up to love and DCA has a lot more of the current films and characters (Pixar for example) which the younger generation has grown up with.

    I also think most people think of DCA and Disneyland as one theme park because park hopping is so easy. They may drop into Disneyland first and grab some fast passes and then head over the DCA to get some passes and then just rotate through the parks as passes come up for use. But at WDW park hopping does not happen (anywhere near as much).

  14. #29

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkroz View Post
    and for ALL of 2013, Cars Land was a major draw, and Radiator Springs Racers Fastpasses probably sent most visitors to DCA first, then to Disneyland later.
    Now they're all going to the Frozen meet and greet crazy how that line routinely more than doubles the RSR standby

  15. #30

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    Re: Disneyland slowing down in attendance. DCA is number 10.

    Disney doesn't really care about attendance numbers their main concern is customer spending and the overall growth of the resort. In order for this to happen they need to keep guests happy especially tourist that spend more than annual passholders.
    SO DCA did not reach the 10million according to those numbers but it doesn't have much to go. The thing is that according to Disney it did help raise tourist customer spending and amount of stay in the resort which work hand in hand

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