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  1. #1

    • Singing Drinker
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    A Return to Ticket Books

    A lot of the talk of overcrowding focuses on how bad the lines get for the major "E" ticket attractions.

    This is countered by many examples of how during those massive waits, many other rides are running radically under capacity.

    It makes sense, really. You have no restriction beyond inconvenient wait times to restrict how many people can ride once they're through the gates, and the "E" tickets are designated that for a reason.

    So, how about a return to ticket books? Let's grab that baby and get to tossing some bathwater.

    Free park admission, free use of restaurants, shops and paid attractions (no, not free lunch, just not requiring a gate fee to shop/dine), tickets in the traditional A-E structure for everything else.

    Thoughts? I can see how this would reduce the lines in the major crunch attractions while also increasing the utilization of the "lesser" rides.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  2. #2

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    The parks are so much more than the rides though. There is all the theming, the live entertainment like the dapper dans and the character M&G. If you want free access to restaurants and shops that's what Downtown Disney is for. I personally wouldn't like to see the parks return to the ticket booths.

    What ever happened to being patient? I mean if you want to ride something that everyone else wants to ride too then you get in line and wait your turn. And if you don't want to wait then you choose a different attraction.

    It would feel like a carnival to me if we went back to ticket booths.
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  3. #3

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    First, you'd still need to an admission fee into the park, even if you didn't experience any attractions or shows (well the parade will stroll by while you look in its direction). Mainly, because free places attract low-lifes. Don't need a lot of them to cause security incidences. Long time ago, CityWalk had free parking. It attracted a bad element. Then, they required a fee for parking. Problem solved. Low-lifes went somewhere cheaper. That's why it costs to park at the beach.

    Secondly, actual physical tickets?? Blech.
    A plastic card can take the place of paper tickets. Either someone's actual credit card (that would be dangerous to the guest) or a replenishable plastic card like LA Metro's "TAP" card would do the trick. Heck, a whole family could use just the one card. Swipe-swipe-swipe swipe-half-swipe (nuclear family-size), and you're on Indy! Run out of admissions? Replenish at any vending kiosk (no booths with a person inside).
    How to determine the cost of each attraction? Well, attractions could be labeled A-E like in the past, with a different entrance fee for each letter group. I don't think it has to be much more complicated than that. Might lower the fees in "off-season," of course.
    AP Program could still exist, but it would be only for park entrance. Still have to pay to experience attractions.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  4. #4

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    I have to agree with the702senior09.

    I don't mind getting in line with family and/or friends and engaging with each other, having a nice conversation. I like to use it as an opportunity to get to know the people I'm with and if I already know them then just make some good conversation.

    My family downloaded that Heads Up game on our phones. (The game displays a name or movie or something like that, they hold it to their forehead and everyone else has to try to get them to guess what it is.) It's a great way to pass time in line and have the family engaged and interacting with each other instead of clicking away on their phones. We've had some great laughs in line.

    I understand if it's hot out or something like that but there are ways to beat the heat.

    I would say no ticket books.

  5. #5

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    I would never return to DLR again.

  6. #6

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
    I would never return to DLR again.
    Even if the exchange were restricting the number of E tickets in a day in exchange for your wait for them being radically reduced?
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  7. #7

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Actually, my wife still sees Disneyland as a Ticket book. Limited attractions. Limited shows. Food options limited. And everything requires a line, whether be paying for expensive fast food or taking in the scenery of a dark cave. That is why she travels on a cruise ship, no limits !!!!! Her disdain for Disneyland comes from her inexperience of how to tour Disneyland.

    Also from the Pacific Northwest, I would never return again. I want to ride splash mountain three times in a row in the morning, in the same log, without any restrictions for the rest of the day. I can ride frequently because the new tourist that Disney is advertising to visit the park, is still at the hub trying to figure out what to start with and the AP folks are eating breakfast in the great morning ambiance. But don't take my knowledge of how to maximize a visit because others didn't pay attention to life boat drill !!!!

  8. #8

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    the greatest concern I would have would be the bottlenecks. At some point you would have to separate those who paid from those who did not. Knotts does the whole "craft fair" and they use Ghost Town to filter this. I can't see Disney being able to do it on Main Street, that is simply too much traffic.

    Others will chime in about how tickets would potentially kill the older "less popular" attractions. I'll stick with the logistical nightmare of trying to do something like this. If you think crowds are bad now... that's asking for chaos.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  9. #9

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Nope.

    First of all Free Admission into the parks would never work.

  10. #10

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaraann View Post
    Nope.

    First of all Free Admission into the parks would never work.
    Fair enough - Disney didn't try that, however the initial admission fee adjusted over the years would put a daily gate fee at just shy of nine dollars. Basically a slight roadbump to keep out people only there to cause trouble and not willing to pay for the privilege of attempting it.

    Past that though, since it's likely the major issue facing DL is NOT generic overcrowding but a utilization issue of too much demand for the E tickets vs the lingering excess capacity of the rest of the park, how do you solve this? Everyone can't go on everything the moment they want to. If they could, we wouldn't have lines.
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  11. #11

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Not sure you could get consumers to go for ticket books again after having what 2 or 3 generations of consumers now who have never used them at a theme park.

    Not to mention if the competitors don't go alone, there is even more an incentive to go there instead. We would probably see even more people going into the parks to just hang out and not ride anything if the admission is free, but if your going to charge an admission may as well charge one that is just more reasonable and keep the attractions free.

  12. #12

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Past that though, since it's likely the major issue facing DL is NOT generic overcrowding but a utilization issue of too much demand for the E tickets vs the lingering excess capacity of the rest of the park, how do you solve this? Everyone can't go on everything the moment they want to. If they could, we wouldn't have lines.
    I'm trying to understand the concept behind "utilization issue". Most "E" ticket attractions have something close to "pick up the slack". Splash has Pooh or HM or Pirates. Indy has Jungle or Pirates or for a really long wait possibly HM. BTM has Jungle, or the big boats, possibly Pirates or HM. I really don't see it so much as a utilization issue as just "too many people". Fastpass contributes to it greatly but even in the days before Fastpass there were long lines. The primary difference was in the "old days" the lines were merit based. Guests decided on a personal level if the wait was "worth" standing for x minutes in line. Now Guests are encouraged to wait longer because they have x minutes before the Fastpass window hits for some other ride.

    To my knowledge we're not seeing 60min Indy and 5min Jungle...

    You also have to take into account different attractions have different capacities. BTM, HM, Pirates and Jungle are "people eaters" when running full bore.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  13. #13

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I'm trying to understand the concept behind "utilization issue". Most "E" ticket attractions have something close to "pick up the slack". Splash has Pooh or HM or Pirates. Indy has Jungle or Pirates or for a really long wait possibly HM. BTM has Jungle, or the big boats, possibly Pirates or HM. I really don't see it so much as a utilization issue as just "too many people". Fastpass contributes to it greatly but even in the days before Fastpass there were long lines. The primary difference was in the "old days" the lines were merit based. Guests decided on a personal level if the wait was "worth" standing for x minutes in line. Now Guests are encouraged to wait longer because they have x minutes before the Fastpass window hits for some other ride.
    It's part of the "park is overcrowded" argument. People with inside knowledge have repeatedly cited that the "overcrowding" tends to be limited to either a very limited set of days where the entire park IS actually overcrowded across the board, or the result of too much demand for certain attractions and the corollary of the traffic patterns this causes (Adventureland is the usual whipping boy here) creating a much more congested effect than the sheer customer volume should create. Rides running at reduced capacity and still posting short waits, restaurants and shops closed early due to LEGITIMATE lack of demand (not denying a certain level of closure simply for cost efficiencies), that sort of thing.

    With the park still carrying excess guest capacity in many places, the problem changes from "how do you get fewer people in the parks" to "how do you get them to interact with the park more efficiently while impacting their experience the least?"
    Credibility is to be sought for. Credulity is not. Sadly the latter is our normal human state.

  14. #14

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    People with inside knowledge have repeatedly cited that the "overcrowding" tends to be limited to either a very limited set of days where the entire park IS actually overcrowded across the board
    So basically "overcrowding" meaning "overcrowding"... ok

    or the result of too much demand for certain attractions and the corollary of the traffic patterns this causes (Adventureland is the usual whipping boy here) creating a much more congested effect than the sheer customer volume should create.
    Meaning attractions that were down now coming back online. Indy tanks, everything around it becomes a cluster for 20 minutes as the lines pour out and the crowd dissipates. That has 0 to do with utilization as it would a maintenance issue.

    Rides running at reduced capacity and still posting short waits
    This would either be a staffing or maintenance issue. An example of staffing would be a people who called in sick thereby not giving the attraction a full crew or in VERY rare circumstances not be scheduled a full crew (typically happens in off season or during evening changeover on a day believed to be "slow"). Again not an efficiency issue as the ride efficiency is directly affected by either broken vehicles or lack of staffing. I will give you one concession here... if a Lead ER's some of the crew and then a major attraction takes a dive (IE Jungle ER's, then Indy tanks 30 minutes later). But again, Jungle's ER would be based on a lack of demand, and Indy being down would be maintenance.

    restaurants and shops closed early due to LEGITIMATE lack of demand (not denying a certain level of closure simply for cost efficiency), that sort of thing.
    Again, no demand, shops close, if anything that is being efficient.

    With the park still carrying excess guest capacity in many places, the problem changes from "how do you get fewer people in the parks" to "how do you get them to interact with the park more efficiently while impacting their experience the least?"
    Actually the "real" conversation should be about traffic patterns and not about ride efficiency. More specifically the fact that AP's show up on weekdays when shifts are traditionally changing over to a smaller night shift crew. The staffing levels and the park in general operated on the premise that you show up, you spend the day, you go home. It wasn't designed to take into account an "afternoon rush". THAT is where efficiency comes into play and it is impossible to account for. You can't schedule a full crew for an afternoon flood on an otherwise slow day... just like you can't schedule a full crew based on the assumption a nearby ride will take a dive.

    If you want to get into the conversation about overall park traffic patterns and the narrowness of Adventureland, that situation develops in 1 of 3 ways.

    1. it's an overcrowded day (self explanatory).
    2. shows about to start or just ended (Fantasmic or Parades take your pick).
    3. something took a dive (Indy and Pirates being the worst culprits for Adventure.
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  15. #15

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    Re: A Return to Ticket Books

    Free admission to the park is a bad idea. They have always had at least a general admission charge. In 1955 it was $1.

    Selling tickets to the most popular attractions is a good idea, if you ask me. The purchase of the ticket could include a guaranteed admission time to the attraction, so there would be no line to wait in.

    I went to Disneyland quite a few times during the era of ticket books, and I can say that the tickets were a joy, not a hassle.

    I'm always amazed on this forum when members excoriate the idea of ticket books, yet those same members are happy to shuffle a handful of FastPasses and plan their day based around those.

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