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  1. #31

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Awesome strawman this thread is.
    Oh, someone doesn't think it is a strawman? Or, perhaps does not know the meaning of "strawman"?
    If it is not, then there are posts out there that bash AP'ers for doing things. And I'd like to see these posts.

    So, if someone can show me posts that have these things in them, that would be great.

    ...everything from littering to line cutting to crowds to cussing is frequently blamed on pass holders...
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  2. #32

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Oh, someone doesn't think it is a strawman? Or, perhaps does not know the meaning of "strawman"?
    If it is not, then there are posts out there that bash AP'ers for doing things. And I'd like to see these posts.
    Occam's Razor says: bingo!

  3. #33

    • Singing Drinker
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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    Oh, someone doesn't think it is a strawman? Or, perhaps does not know the meaning of "strawman"?
    If it is not, then there are posts out there that bash AP'ers for doing things. And I'd like to see these posts.

    So, if someone can show me posts that have these things in them, that would be great.
    FWIW, I used to have a couple bookmarked. I believe the people responsible for them have since either quit or been banned.
    Woo! Spring is coming!

  4. #34

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    I think a lot of people, for whatever reason, have an "us" vs. "them" mentality and would like to blame "them" for everything.

  5. #35

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    My them has never been purchasers of AP's.
    My them has always been the sellers of AP's.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  6. #36

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    As much as it sucks, when you're the majority of the crowd you end up with the majority of the blame. That's the reality of life. It doesn't help when people caught behaving badly have their tickets, or APs, on full display on a lanyard. All it takes is a few bad experiences with a bad apples in a short period of time to sour a reputation.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  7. #37

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Okay...strawman is "an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument."

    as stated in my first post, I am new here and I found this site because I am a Disney geek. While the site looked informative, I was surprised by the large number of AP vs tourist posts here. I must have quickly run across at least 20 instances of this...obviously I did not take notes on which threads they were on...that's why I started a new thread. I assure you it did not take a lot of time or searching for me to run across this issue, so feel free to browse posts yourself if you believe I made the issue up.

    To be quite honest, this is a conflict I never even knew existed until I encountered it on this site. I was intrigued, and thus the new thread I started.

    Judging from the fact that other members are posting and know exactly what I am talking about, I can assume others have seen this exact argument before. Thus it is not a misrepresentation of the argument, and thus not a strawman.

    (wow...my reputation may never recover now...oh well, why do anything halfway.).

    I'm happy I found this site, and I'm happy to find other Disney freaks, like-minded or not.

  8. #38

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Zorcher,
    stick around long enough and you'll be able to set your watch to the thread subjects coming back in style!
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  9. #39

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    As much as it sucks, when you're the majority of the crowd you end up with the majority of the blame. That's the reality of life. It doesn't help when people caught behaving badly have their tickets, or APs, on full display on a lanyard. All it takes is a few bad experiences with a bad apples in a short period of time to sour a reputation.
    Exactly. A big part of this is a visibility thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorcher View Post
    Okay...strawman is "an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument."

    as stated in my first post, I am new here and I found this site because I am a Disney geek. While the site looked informative, I was surprised by the large number of AP vs tourist posts here. I must have quickly run across at least 20 instances of this...obviously I did not take notes on which threads they were on...that's why I started a new thread. I assure you it did not take a lot of time or searching for me to run across this issue, so feel free to browse posts yourself if you believe I made the issue up.

    To be quite honest, this is a conflict I never even knew existed until I encountered it on this site. I was intrigued, and thus the new thread I started.

    Judging from the fact that other members are posting and know exactly what I am talking about, I can assume others have seen this exact argument before. Thus it is not a misrepresentation of the argument, and thus not a strawman.

    (wow...my reputation may never recover now...oh well, why do anything halfway.).

    I'm happy I found this site, and I'm happy to find other Disney freaks, like-minded or not.
    I think the strawman comments are not directed at you, but other repliers. As you are picking up on, this is a touchy subject and as far as my longwinded posts are concerned, I want to make sure we can have a decent discussion on it without it becoming like the other threads of the past. As far as you are concerned, you've done nothing wrong here at all and we love new vocal commenters. If you have any more concerns with rep, send me a message and I can look into it, or I can explain via PM how to report bogus rep. As a previous moderator said, we generally don't like to discuss rep on the boards because they are private and mentioning it seems to create a vicious cycle.

  10. #40

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Exactly. A big part of this is a visibility thing.
    Another issue is the "know better" mentality. Parents expect more out of an older child because said child theoretically should have more experience. CM's tend to expect more out of AP's because AP's should "know better". Doesn't make it right at all but again we're talking reality here.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


    "Creating magical memories and making Managers cry since 1955!"


  11. #41

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Seed good!

    Seed program bad....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLbWnJGlyMU
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  12. #42

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    As a tourist who used to visit DL 2-3 times a year, but not at all this year, solely because of the crowds, I have nothing whatsoever against the vast majority of people who have APs. If I had the luxury of living close enough to allow me to visit whenever I wanted, I would most certainly have an AP myself.

    That said, I have en extremely intense hatred for the corporate greed (and every individual behind it) that has allowed the program to get so out of control that I no longer enjoy DL. Their attitude seems to be 'it doesn't matter who we screw, we MUST keep the stockholders happy......and get a larger bonus in the process......'

    I think a lot of us feel this way; AP holders = generally good people. Money-grubbing greedmongers that operate the AP program = the very worst examples of humanity ever.

  13. #43

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Exactly. A big part of this is a visibility thing.



    I think the strawman comments are not directed at you, but other repliers. As you are picking up on, this is a touchy subject and as far as my longwinded posts are concerned, I want to make sure we can have a decent discussion on it without it becoming like the other threads of the past. As far as you are concerned, you've done nothing wrong here at all and we love new vocal commenters. If you have any more concerns with rep, send me a message and I can look into it, or I can explain via PM how to report bogus rep. As a previous moderator said, we generally don't like to discuss rep on the boards because they are private and mentioning it seems to create a vicious cycle.

    No, it was the first post. Imagined up some hate, then made an argument against it.
    Sure, hate is a "bad thing."
    Maybe there's a better term than "strawman." Probably a word that gets censored here.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  14. #44

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorcher View Post
    Okay...strawman is "an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument."

    as stated in my first post, I am new here and I found this site because I am a Disney geek. While the site looked informative, I was surprised by the large number of AP vs tourist posts here. I must have quickly run across at least 20 instances of this...obviously I did not take notes on which threads they were on...that's why I started a new thread. I assure you it did not take a lot of time or searching for me to run across this issue, so feel free to browse posts yourself if you believe I made the issue up.

    To be quite honest, this is a conflict I never even knew existed until I encountered it on this site. I was intrigued, and thus the new thread I started.

    Judging from the fact that other members are posting and know exactly what I am talking about, I can assume others have seen this exact argument before. Thus it is not a misrepresentation of the argument, and thus not a strawman.

    (wow...my reputation may never recover now...oh well, why do anything halfway.).

    I'm happy I found this site, and I'm happy to find other Disney freaks, like-minded or not.

    Welcome!
    I'm not a freak. I just like DL a lot. Not enough to go every week. It's been over a year since my last visit.
    I like discussing serious issues regarding the "health" of the park, what drives executive decisions to change it (or not to change it), etc. (BTW, the answer to that last one is "annual bonuses.")

    But enough about me...
    I did not claim there was hate. You did. Go find the posts then multi-quote them here. Maybe I'm not reading enough threads.

    I would simply dismiss those posters as not worthy of my time, instead of creating a thread about them. But that's me.

    As for me, I think my stance is pretty well-known around here: hate the program, indifferent about the purchasers. And, now you know it.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  15. #45

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    No, it was the first post. Imagined up some hate, then made an argument against it.
    Sure, hate is a "bad thing."
    Maybe there's a better term than "strawman." Probably a word that gets censored here.
    Oh fair enough. Given the post history on this topic though, I can see a new member getting confused, considering how many strawmen-esque arguments have been used in the past confusing the discussion. With my position, I just want everyone to be sure that everyone is clear on the position of most people on this so that these threads become less of an occurrence over time.

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