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  1. #46

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Just my two cents...

    It sucks that the AP holders on this board are feeling attacked by the general populace of this site. But, some of the chagrin directed toward the AP program is not completely without base. Unruly teenagers, drug use, etc. can absolutely be attributed to APs (where are tourists going to get drugs and how are groups of teenagers going to afford regular park tickets?).

    People also get upset about crowd levels. This is not the fault of APs, but the AP program in general...and its not necessarily a scapegoat to associate the overcrowding with the program, its just. common sense that a park which draws heavily from a local pool is going to be filled mostly with locals on such a crowded day. What bothers me about this is that this overcrowding by people who go frequently takes away from tourists who may only get to go once. Again, its not the fault of the actual people holding APs, just the program itself for letting it get so out of control.

    Misbehavior in general cant be blamed on any one group of people. If someone sees line-cutting and assumes its an AP holder, then thats an issue. But not all complaints with the AP program are baseless scapegoats.

  2. #47

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Over the years, I have received SO much help from APers, both on this forum, and in person at Disneyland. It is a shame that APs feel singled out and blamed for all of the negativity that goes on in the Parks, and on this forum to be quite frank.

    I do believe APs are used as scapegoats, although, I have seen for myself how some can be incredibly rude and show entitlement. On the other hand, I have also seen tourists show incredible rudeness and entitlement as well..... "I only get to come to the parks every so often so I should be treated differently." No, you shouldn't. I get it. It sucks. We don't live close. I only get to come to the parks, on average, about once every-other year, but I do not feel entitled to be treated differently.

    If I lived closer, I would be a premium pass holder. If we were Premium APs, I would act no differently than I do as a tourist/visitor. I treat people with respect. I thank CMs and hotel staff.... frequently. I tip.... generously. I help people out if I hear a question they might have while we are standing in line together... ya know, make the most of that time in line. Meet new people. Laugh. Smile. All of the things people generally like about people.

    Over the years, I have seen many people act like idiots, both in the parks and in hotels... neither of which anyone can definitively say are locals with or w/o APs, out of the SoCal area folks with or w/o APs, or out of Staters... again, with or w/o APs. Well... or maybe they can definitively say its an AP... but for every instance of an APs bad behavior, guaranteed there is tourist to balance it out.

    If I see bad behavior, I will generally say something. If I see someone cutting in line, I will most definitely call them out, immediately. If I see someone leave their trash on the table in the pool area of the hotel, I may or may not say something, but I will definitely clean it up.

    Generalizing the blame of bad behavior on either APs or tourists is discrimination either way you look at it. There is bad behavior across the board.... a single group of individuals should not hold the burden.
    Last edited by boisemice; 07-12-2014 at 08:32 AM.

  3. #48

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    All this talk of overcrowding. I remember as a kid in the 70's through today, always waiting in line for a ride. I remember space mountain lines being 2 hours or more in the 80's. I remember waiting for Captain EO 60 minutes or more. Watching the video playing near Lincoln of the first few years and the crowds looked worse than now.
    Maybe it is the lack of off-season dates that has people thinking it is more crowded now? I know Disney has added many promotions to increase crowd levels. Even Halloween Time is increasing crowds where there used to be none in September.
    AP holders are not the problem with crowds. If it were too crowded for them, they would just go elsewhere.
    As for bad behavior... I've seen many tourists with much worse behavior that AP holders. I even have some foreign tourists drinking beer, smoking on a ride, etc on video/photos in an attempt to get Disney to do something about it. Even a few times I found foreign tourists bathing in a sink adjacent to City Hall!
    Easy to complain about others. It's always someone else's fault

  4. #49

    • A Happy Haunt
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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    As a former APer, (work conflicts with this years visits) I can offer a few points from my own perspective.

    i never thought of DL or DCA as my own, entitlements.
    i never considered a pass as lowering my entry cost. I considered it as an investment that allowed a higher frequency of visits, free parking (big one) and the nice discounts.
    the discounts encouraged me to eat inside the park, at any eatery I wished. And allowed me to find my favorites. As a once a year or two visitor, it's hard to decide where to eat, in the parks.
    the discounts encouraged me to buy more park related merchandise.

    I felt awkward for those who wore their AP badges on lanyards. I can't understand why, unless it's pride.

    Also, so, with a higher frequency of entry, I never felt I "had" to wait in a line that I didn't want to. I opted for another ride or experience. For example, the line for Star Tours is over an hour... I'd get in the Buzz Lightyear's line or just stroll to anywhere else. My schedule was not confined to rides or anything beyond being there. I'd just ride it next time. And generally, I believe, those in line are not APer's. We've also found single rider lines, except for soarin, to be our friends.

    Living out of state is also a part of he dynamic. We'd get a room at a nearby hotel (using reward points due to my travel for work) and stay a night or two, instead of at a nearby family member's. So that allowed a post arrival dinner on Park property, a jaunt through the parks in the evening, then some shopping before heading back to the hotel.

    the pressure to enter at rope drop is nil. We relax, sleep in, take our time. Unless we are planning a Disney breakfast, on property.

    we can hop through both parks, no pressure to wait or even get in a line. We average maybe 5 rides per day. Unless it's a light crowd.

    we enjoy, at the end of the day, meandering through downtown Disney for some foods, then down to the trader sam's and back to the hotel.

    we sometimes jump into the parks the day we head back home, for that last minute shopping, a ride or two, then home.

    i have been to the parks A LOT, and have not really felt much negativity towards or from other visitors. Of course, there can be a spot of stroller frustration, but that's fleeting and never ruins our day. Basically, I've read more here, than seen, felt or heard while in the park.

    we are all there for one reason, to have a good time. And I think that is important to remember.


    I hope my words have contributed positively to this discussion.

  5. #50

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Have you SEEN some of the ways AP's operate while in the parks? Quick story:

    I was in line at Clarabelle's in DCA getting some ice cream. The lady in front of me ordered a good sized list of ice creams for her group. The cast member rang her order up, but didn't ask for her AP. She tried handing her AP to the CM, and the CM was actually beyond polite about it, and told her, "I'm sorry, we do not accept the annual pass discount here, since this is a quick service, and not an actual restaurant."

    That's all she said. Short, sweet, and gave the information she needed to.

    You'd think she'd just been slapped with a speeding ticket or something! She flew off the handle and started cussing this lovely cast member out, saying how it was bull****, I can't F-ing believe this, I DESERVE this, don't you know I'm trying to save money, etc etc etc.

    This lady cancelled her order, and stormed out.



    Guys, it's people like this that I've seen time and again around the park. From not getting the right area at the parade and complaining to the cast members about it because there needs to be a 'reserved AP area', to complaining about the line getting into the park taking too long and the AP's need their own section of gates to go through.


    This attitude isn't just at Disneyland, it's outside as well. People have this aura of entitlement that's disgusting. Just because you pay for an annual pass to Disneyland doesn't mean you earn the right to have discounts. Disney gives those to you as an added perk to the pass. They don't HAVE to do that. They could lower the price a little, and make it where it's just a better ticket purchase than day-passes, and you have to pay regular price for any of your merch and food. But they know how to market, and it clearly works, since there's over a million AP'ers.


    That said, not everyone is a Pass hole. There's great people who go and enjoy the park and don't think they deserve something just because they're an AP holder. And those are the people I would give the magic more to anyways, since they're polite, respectful and humble about it. Definitely not to the people who expect a hand out..

  6. #51

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Okay, okay...I see where this thread is going. The working thesis of my original post was this: Disneyland is head and shoulders above other parks when it comes to cleanliness, safety, and happy experiences. While this is partly due to management and CM's, I believe it is also due to the fact that the majority of people in the park (including LOTS of locals) are looking to make it a magical place, and therefore treat the park accordingly. I still stand by my original argument.

    I never said EVERYONE in the park was perfect. Will you see jerks there...of course, there are 50,000 people there. Are some of those jerks locals...of course. Again, just measure your average Disneyland experience against any other park and see what you come up with.

    I have witnessed drug use and fights at every single theme park in Southern California, but not at Disneyland. I can honestly say that in all my years and frequent trips to Disneyland I have never seen ANY drug use or physical altercations. I do not have my head in the sand...I can spot drug use with my eyes closed. Obviously it happens, and I absolutely believe stories from the above posts, it is just not common...which is the key.

    When I see an obnoxious jerk at Disneyland, they stand out because they are an obnoxious jerk at Disneyland. It never once occurred to me to see an obnoxious jerk AP or an obnoxious jerk tourist...I just see someone who doesn't belong.

  7. #52

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    There are 900,000 APs, more or less. Does anyone think 900,00 people all come from the same background and behave the same way? It's like saying that if you see one person (or even a small percentage) from, say, Seattle who is a jerk, everyone from Seattle must be just the same.

    When you see someone behaving badly at the park, that person doesn't represent anyone else. For every AP or tourist you see who is being rude, there are probably hundreds walking right behind you who aren't doing a single thing wrong.
    Merida looks like this. Not a Barbie doll!

  8. #53

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    I think we are all in more of agreement then were letting on. Sure, some of the million-ish APs abuse or feel entitled by there pass, by as I mentioned before, some Tourists do the same.

  9. #54

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malina View Post
    There are 900,000 APs, more or less. Does anyone think 900,00 people all come from the same background and behave the same way? It's like saying that if you see one person (or even a small percentage) from, say, Seattle who is a jerk, everyone from Seattle must be just the same.

    When you see someone behaving badly at the park, that person doesn't represent anyone else. For every AP or tourist you see who is being rude, there are probably hundreds walking right behind you who aren't doing a single thing wrong.
    900,000...that seems like quite a lot doesnt it? No, not every AP is disrespectful and obnoxious like the lady described in the story above, but your number makes a good point--when people act up, people are gonna think, "chances are its an AP holder". Im not saying thats the way it ought to be, but its just how basic statistics works.

  10. #55

    • Warm Hugging Anna
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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brisk View Post
    Have you SEEN some of the ways AP's operate while in the parks? Quick story:

    I was in line at Clarabelle's in DCA getting some ice cream. The lady in front of me ordered a good sized list of ice creams for her group. The cast member rang her order up, but didn't ask for her AP. She tried handing her AP to the CM, and the CM was actually beyond polite about it, and told her, "I'm sorry, we do not accept the annual pass discount here, since this is a quick service, and not an actual restaurant."

    That's all she said. Short, sweet, and gave the information she needed to.

    You'd think she'd just been slapped with a speeding ticket or something! She flew off the handle and started cussing this lovely cast member out, saying how it was bull****, I can't F-ing believe this, I DESERVE this, don't you know I'm trying to save money, etc etc etc.

    This lady cancelled her order, and stormed out.
    I'm a AP and I don't do that. I know there is some places that they don't exspet AP discounts like where u said or that cristle shop on Main Street or like if you by a drawing that Disney has at Off the page or The Disney Gallery. It don't bug me. So don't say every AP is the same when I am not like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brisk View Post
    Guys, it's people like this that I've seen time and again around the park. From not getting the right area at the parade and complaining to the cast members about it because there needs to be a 'reserved AP area', to complaining about the line getting into the park taking too long and the AP's need their own section of gates to go through.


    This attitude isn't just at Disneyland, it's outside as well. People have this aura of entitlement that's disgusting. Just because you pay for an annual pass to Disneyland doesn't mean you earn the right to have discounts. Disney gives those to you as an added perk to the pass. They don't HAVE to do that. They could lower the price a little, and make it where it's just a better ticket purchase than day-passes, and you have to pay regular price for any of your merch and food. But they know how to market, and it clearly works, since there's over a million AP'ers.


    That said, not everyone is a Pass hole. There's great people who go and enjoy the park and don't think they deserve something just because they're an AP holder. And those are the people I would give the magic more to anyways, since they're polite, respectful and humble about it. Definitely not to the people who expect a hand out..
    Once again I'm not like this. I try to help people out on some stuff that they never knew that this is there first time. Like when I was in line to see Elsa last Tuesday. This family saw Olaf on the roof ah chourse he wasn't moving but I told him that he isn't working right now but he does talk and said some words from the movie but adds to it. The wife said to me. Oh I didn't know he move. I told her yes but there is something wrong with him so that is why he isn't working right now. So I'm not like all APers.

  11. #56

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Hook View Post
    I'm a AP and I don't do that. I know there is some places that they don't exspet AP discounts like where u said or that cristle shop on Main Street or like if you by a drawing that Disney has at Off the page or The Disney Gallery. It don't bug me. So don't say every AP is the same when I am not like that.




    Once again I'm not like this. I try to help people out on some stuff that they never knew that this is there first time. Like when I was in line to see Elsa last Tuesday. This family saw Olaf on the roof ah chourse he wasn't moving but I told him that he isn't working right now but he does talk and said some words from the movie but adds to it. The wife said to me. Oh I didn't know he move. I told her yes but there is something wrong with him so that is why he isn't working right now. So I'm not like all APers.
    You are completely ignoring the last part of his/her post.




  12. #57

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by frollofan View Post
    You are completely ignoring the last part of his/her post.
    What does that mean I don't understand?

  13. #58

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    I'm a AP and I don't do that. I know there is some places that they don't exspet AP discounts like where u said or that cristle shop on Main Street or like if you by a drawing that Disney has at Off the page or The Disney Gallery. It don't bug me. So don't say every AP is the same when I am not like that.
    I've read Brisk's post over and over again and I cannot seem to find where they've said that "every AP is the same."

    Keep in mind, a person's opinion of an AP largely varies depending on the person's perspective. A CM may have many more encounters with AP's than guests, and therefore there are higher chances of encountering some of the negative behavior exhibited by certain AP's. Not once have I ever read here someone saying "All AP's act in x way," so to me, the whole "a few AP's don't represent how the entirety behaves" doesn't work because no one made that argument to begin with.

    However, as a CM, I can say that the behavior in Brisk's post does happen quite more often than us on this site are willing to admit.

  14. #59

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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Hook View Post
    What does that mean I don't understand?
    Here is the last part of his/her post. It says that not ALL APers are like the way he described in the story.
    That said, not everyone is a Pass hole. There's great people who go and enjoy the park and don't think they deserve something just because they're an AP holder. And those are the people I would give the magic more to anyways, since they're polite, respectful and humble about it. Definitely not to the people who expect a hand out..




  15. #60

    • Warm Hugging Anna
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    Re: Hate for annual pass holders?!?

    OK I am sorry to Brisk I read the last part wrong. I had though it said all APers where the same. So sorry Brisk but I just still like to say I am a AP and I do understand that there is some stuff I can do with my AP and others I can't. It just seems like alot of people are complane to all AP's when there is not. Once again SORRY.

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