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  1. #46

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Also, by way of clarification, active RFID doesn't mean it is always transmitting your info/location. It simply means that it doesn't require an RFID receiver nearby to power the tag. It is always on and looking for a transmitter, but it only transmits when requested by a transmitter. Which means active vs passive has no affect on when transmission occurs, only how it is powered and signal strength. MagicBand also doesn't broadcast your location at all. Location can only be gathered based on which receiver it checked in with and is only as granular as the receiver network. Meaning you could be anywhere within x feet of y receiver. That's as close as they can get. It's not like they can track you anywhere to within a few feet. They can't. If you use it at park entrance and then don't use it the rest of the day, that's the only location data they have for you. Which they have now already via entry media. Same with stores/restaurants via your encrypted credit card hash.
    Wrong. The MagicBands are tracked throughout the parks. Memory Maker works off of this tracking. The long delayed customizable ending to "it's small world" would also use the tracking. Tracking is a key to the ways the MagicBand was supposed to transform the theme park experience, but the delayed and complicated rollout means that these features have not been put into play and the project has failed to begin making any of the money that was promised to investors.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Not true. Times in each of the blocks are held for same day. It is not like current FP where it's first come first served. In each hour long block, some go to pre-bookers, some to hotel guests and some to in park day of use.
    Again, not true. No FastPass+ times are held back. If they all book up 60 days out then they are all booked.

  2. #47

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Fan 1 View Post
    Sorry but there is nothing that can convince me that MyMagic+ is ever coming to Disneyland.
    I'll bet you said that about Court of Angels closing too.

    Face the facts, or live under a rock, but MM+ is coming to Disneyland. It's a great system, despite what people think. I'm sure they'll implement MM+ into a way that's better than Magic Bands for the locals, and make it a bit easier to play in the parks, and reserve time for attractions.

    What I don't think locals realize, is that when this finally arrives, they can plan their evening and reserve a spot for say, viewing at WoC. But before that, their kid wants to ride Alice in Wonderland to see the new enhancements, so hey, let's reserve a time to ride that beforehand.

    Sure, one could argue that it's taking away the spontaneity of just going and doing, but then again, if you decide not to use your allotted time, what's really stopping you from being spontaneous, even if you have a reservation to begin with?

  3. #48

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by jsciv View Post
    This isn't accurate for WDW. They capture your location data on every attraction with pictures: the Memory Maker option (which was part of a room package I was using) then keeps every picture and tags it to your account. I went single rider on Expedition Everest (no MB scanners anywhere) and immediately left the attraction after, but the photo was on my account because they scanned the chips of the MB's in the ride vehicle. They're doing that on EVERY attraction with a photo, and the paranoid would note here that there's nothing to stop them from putting scanners wherever they want.
    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Wrong. The MagicBands are tracked throughout the parks.
    If you'll notice, I said it can only track you when it checks in to a receiver. Further, I said if you do nothing but check in, it can't track you (as an example). Obviously if you start doing things in park it will start tracking you as it checks in with receivers. My point was, it isn't GPS level tracking where they follow your every footstep. It's granular. They only know whic receiver your tag talked to and the time it did so. So they only know that it checked in at main gate, then you went to a kiosk on Main Street and set up fast passes. Then you went to x ride. It doesn't know which way you went or what you did in between those.

    As far as putting scanners everywhere, that would be ridiculously cost prohibitive and destructive to the park. Adding them to stores and rides and restaurants is a great way to track traffic patterns. Of course, they actually already have a way to track you everywhere via their in park camera systems. I doubt they have facial recognition software installed but it would be easy and painless to do and then let the system follow you everywhere you went. As I've said, they can already track your moves through stores and restaurants via your credit card swipes and every time you scan your park media for a normal FP and then use that FP (notice it has a barcode on it). It also makes no sense to track movements with that fine of detail. it serves no purpose. It doesn't make them more money or solve any problems they have or help them provide a better experience. So I'm not worried about that at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O View Post
    Again, not true. No FastPass+ times are held back. If they all book up 60 days out then they are all booked.
    I checked on this with some people familiar with the workings of the system and they have re-confirmed for me that the system DOES split up available FP's between pre-bookings and in park bookings so that pre-bookings DON'T take all the slots for a day. That would defeat the entire purpose of the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brisk View Post
    Sure, one could argue that it's taking away the spontaneity of just going and doing
    Great examples. I don't think this argument holds any water since no one is forced to use it If you just want to show up and ride, you can. If you want to just show up and use whatever FPs are still available (just like you can now), you can. Spontaneity survives fully intact.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  4. #49

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Also, by way of clarification, active RFID doesn't mean it is always transmitting your info/location. It simply means that it doesn't require an RFID receiver nearby to power the tag. It is always on and looking for a transmitter, but it only transmits when requested by a transmitter. Which means active vs passive has no affect on when transmission occurs, only how it is powered and signal strength. MagicBand also doesn't broadcast your location at all. Location can only be gathered based on which receiver it checked in with and is only as granular as the receiver network. Meaning you could be anywhere within x feet of y receiver. That's as close as they can get. It's not like they can track you anywhere to within a few feet. They can't. If you use it at park entrance and then don't use it the rest of the day, that's the only location data they have for you. Which they have now already via entry media. Same with stores/restaurants via your encrypted credit card hash.
    MagicBands have a radio transmitter in them IN ADDITION to the two RFID tags that are used for close contact. The RFID chips are used for hotel entry and touch transactions (like FP+). The 2.4GHz radio in the MagicBand can be used for various things.. including location tracking. Disney uses the term "long range readers" in it's filings when discussing the radio infrastructure elements to read the bands at a distance. The chip in it is 'similar' to Bluetooth, but is a proprietary system.

    But as its been discussed for years now... there is little value in Disney trying to log all your movements as an individual for all of time, and is more valuable for proximity applications and aggregating info about many people (crowd monitoring, analysis of movements/trends, etc).
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  5. #50

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by chadwpalm View Post
    What I get from this is that you get a limited 3 reservation in advance, but you can still reserve in the park once those are used up. I've never been there, so I can't verify. I also mostly skimmed this thread, so maybe this has been said already. I only recall people saying 3 was the total limit.
    Yes, that was the more recent change to allow park hopping was to allow additional FP+ credits to be booked VIA KIOSK after your initial 3 are used. The system will likely change yet again, and probably change specifically for DLR too when it comes. There is little reason to get upset over how it's implemented at WDW.. but it will likely be tuned for DLR as well.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  6. #51

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    If you'll notice, I said it can only track you when it checks in to a receiver. Further, I said if you do nothing but check in, it can't track you (as an example). Obviously if you start doing things in park it will start tracking you as it checks in with receivers. My point was, it isn't GPS level tracking where they follow your every footstep. It's granular. They only know whic receiver your tag talked to and the time it did so. So they only know that it checked in at main gate, then you went to a kiosk on Main Street and set up fast passes. Then you went to x ride. It doesn't know which way you went or what you did in between those.
    They can if they want to. The long range readers can be placed all over and watch for tags at will. They can also triangulate positions using multiple sensors if they cared to. There are not limits here technology wise what they CAN do - its all a matter of what they WANT to do.

    And there are reasons to track locations around the park - industrial engineering.
    Last edited by flynnibus; 07-23-2014 at 09:43 PM.
    Check out my blog - Coreplex: Rambling from inside the Grid


    Am I evil? yes, I am
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepyjeff View Post
    Disneyland was meant to be sipped not chug-a-lugged

  7. #52

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    The 2.4GHz radio[...]

    But as its been discussed for years now... there is little value in Disney trying to log all your movements as an individual for all of time, and is more valuable for proximity applications and aggregating info about many people (crowd monitoring, analysis of movements/trends, etc).
    Ah... was unaware of the higher frequency radio in there. Still haven't gotten around to reading the filings on this sadly. Maybe I will go do that tonight

    But yeah, there is no reason to track movements like that. I guess it could be useful if your kid got lost, just ping the thing from 3 towers and boom, there's your kid.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  8. #53

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by jsciv View Post
    This isn't accurate for WDW. They capture your location data on every attraction with pictures: the Memory Maker option (which was part of a room package I was using) then keeps every picture and tags it to your account. I went single rider on Expedition Everest (no MB scanners anywhere) and immediately left the attraction after, but the photo was on my account because they scanned the chips of the MB's in the ride vehicle. They're doing that on EVERY attraction with a photo, and the paranoid would note here that there's nothing to stop them from putting scanners wherever they want.
    Can you OPT OUT of the Memory Maker so that your picture isnt`t taken , or would Opting Out just mean that your picture was taken but you won`t get it tagged to your account ?

  9. #54

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerryp49 View Post
    Can you OPT OUT of the Memory Maker so that your picture isnt`t taken , or would Opting Out just mean that your picture was taken but you won`t get it tagged to your account ?
    The later. The photo being taken is triggered by the ride vehicle passing as sensor, or a timer. They just wouldn't tie it to an account.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  10. #55

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by BogLurch View Post
    Disney is going to have a larger problem the more they wait. The backlash is getting to the point of vacations sites actively advertising RFID block pockets to protect your "MagicBand" or other active chips that are being forced down our throats implemented with ONLY the best interests of customers in mind.

    This technology is starting to penetrate the "public" mainstream, and it's being tagged as 'spy chips' and 'tracking chips' and 'personal locator devices you don't control'. The media's having a field day, and what few stories are making it out to the front line aren't "WOW! What a great idea!". They're things like "Hacker makes backpack sized portable device that can scan every active chip within fifty yards" and "Scammers show how to break RFID hotel key chips"

    The biggest problem - and I truly believe it's insurmountable - is that Disney chose the same tracking technology that most major credit card companies have chosen for their "swipeless" chipped cards. It's hard to believe there's an army of hackers waiting to take down MagicBands. It's even harder to believe that there's NOT an army of hackers working to exploit every possible weakness of the credit card version of this and figuring out easy ways to transport their experience over to less secured systems when they can.

    THAT is what will kill MagicBands. Not consumer dislike, but consumer fear locking the devices away so that some nasty hacker can't steal your day and Disney gets ten percent of the data it was hoping for. Not a thousand angry APs picketing the gates, but a handful of ordinary looking kids with backpacks who walk out of the Esplenade with every MB and unshielded credit card number that has walked through in the last hour and transport Disney to the front pages in a way they really never want to see.

    That is how this ends. Not with a bang, but with a whimper as they realize they can't compete with international security concerns at their level.
    I agree that a hacker could find a way to breach the system, but I don't know that it would be an attractive target. The bands do not contain your credit card information, just a unique ID that Disney systems use to link to your credit card. Even if a hacker got the ID from your band, they still would need your PIN to make purchases. There really isn't much merchandise in the parks that would be appealing enough to a thief to make this worth while.

  11. #56

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by danlb_2000 View Post
    I agree that a hacker could find a way to breach the system, but I don't know that it would be an attractive target. The bands do not contain your credit card information, just a unique ID that Disney systems use to link to your credit card. Even if a hacker got the ID from your band, they still would need your PIN to make purchases. There really isn't much merchandise in the parks that would be appealing enough to a thief to make this worth while.
    Exactly. I have experience with this actually. I build websites for large corporations doing online credit transactions. There are a lot of very strict standards that need to be met. It is called PCI compliance. You build your system, and then the PCI security groups out there will attempt to hack and steal info from your database. They give you a report and you fix the problems and they test again. Things like unencrypted passwords, unencrypted credit info, any secure info stored in text, easy to crack system passwords, obviously names for storage locations, even keeping customer credit data on the same servers as your web/software will cause you to fail.

    The Walt Disney Company is a partner with the PCI Security Council meaning they pass the most strict of security tests.

    Hackers haven't actually stolen credit info from servers in a while because of the very strict and very secure ways they are stored. What usually happens is theft during the transaction (Target, Michael's, etc). You swipe your card in the reader that has been compromised and the info is stolen before it is encrypted by the system and even sent to your bank for validation. Disney has solved this problem as danlb_2000 mentions. The MagicBands don't have your credit info on them. Just a unique number, also probably encrypted, which is meaningless except when it is sent to Disney's server which says "yup, this number matches the number assigned to this persons credit info." The server then completes the purchase from its end over SSL directly with the bank. Said servers in a data center somewhere. Over the air from the MagicBand to and from the park system all that is seen is the unique id of the band. That's it. Useless information.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  12. #57

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Thank you for the detailed explanation mycroft16!

  13. #58

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Hackers haven't actually stolen credit info from servers in a while because of the very strict and very secure ways they are stored. What usually happens is theft during the transaction (Target, Michael's, etc). You swipe your card in the reader that has been compromised and the info is stolen before it is encrypted by the system and even sent to your bank for validation. Disney has solved this problem as danlb_2000 mentions. The MagicBands don't have your credit info on them. Just a unique number, also probably encrypted, which is meaningless except when it is sent to Disney's server which says "yup, this number matches the number assigned to this persons credit info." The server then completes the purchase from its end over SSL directly with the bank. Said servers in a data center somewhere. Over the air from the MagicBand to and from the park system all that is seen is the unique id of the band. That's it. Useless information.
    Not necessarily useless. While it may not be useful as a means of getting an actual credit card number, it is a gateway to the user's Disney's MB account. A guest that's careless with their PIN number could allow a hacker to make purchases against the account.

    While Disney parks are not a target for high end purchases, they DO have some expensive merchandise.

  14. #59

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by DLFan1995 View Post
    Not necessarily useless. While it may not be useful as a means of getting an actual credit card number, it is a gateway to the user's Disney's MB account. A guest that's careless with their PIN number could allow a hacker to make purchases against the account.

    While Disney parks are not a target for high end purchases, they DO have some expensive merchandise.
    A couple of problems with this scenario:

    The POS system would also be sending transactional data to the system and it's own id and the id of the logged in CM... if you tried to spoof the system by sending purchase data to a reader it would notice that a transaction was not complete from the system itself, or that you were missing other information necessary to make a purchase and not allow the transaction. This is information that is not sent over the air but through the hardlines.

    If you tried to reprogram a magic band with stolen information, the system would notice the mismatch in hashed id numbers and the physically encoded ID of the RFID tag itself and not allow the transaction. If you tried to get inside the magic band, its construction method would render it obviously tampered with or inoperable entirely.

    Plus the system ties it to a photo of you meaning it is really easy to verify if you are the matching person. Any questions and they could simply request your ID to verify it is you.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  15. #60

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    Re: MyMagic+ coming to Disneyland

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Plus the system ties it to a photo of you meaning it is really easy to verify if you are the matching person. Any questions and they could simply request your ID to verify it is you.
    It ties your name and reservation to it and the biometrics used to enter the park, but I can't recall ever having my picture taken in any way that would be associated with the MB other than on an in-attraction photo or PhotoPass photographer (and I can't imagine that they're sorting all of the attraction and PP photos through facial recognition to find the appropriate guests). I have no doubt that they CAN do it, but I'm not sure that I believe that they are currently doing it.

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