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  1. #301

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    When shopping for a Rolls Royce (or any high end vehicle), there was always a cute little saying, 'If you ask about the mileage, you probably can't afford it.'
    This is the direction the company is slowly taking Club 33. By adding benefits which cost the company pennies but are high in perceived value they're continually going to increase the prices until they hit a ceiling and people stop joining. I'm convinced the ceiling is quite high and we can expect large dues increases every year along with the addition of more members.
    It was never like this previously and for all intensive purposes, the Club 33 we all loved is dead, or least laying in a field on it's side, breathing hard, flies amassing near open mucous membranes, waiting for someone to put a bullet in it's skull. The replacement is now a flashy, in your face establishment, flaunted, actually quite brazen. Over priced food, underserved members (especially the original members), but with the Mickey Mouse stamp of approval, the wealthy hordes line up to join.
    I'm having a difficult time justifying the expenditure to renew in 2015. It's very apparent Disney doesn't want the gold/silver members as we're occupying valuable member real estate and with us out of the picture, the vacancies will be quickly filled.
    The original club was much more altruistic, genuine, almost tactile in nature. The new club strikes me as just a facade, where the smiles of the support team are not genuine but rather rented year to year. The warm handshakes by the managers are little more than that of an embalmer preparing a corpse.
    I have little doubt that some on this forum are working damage control for the park, showing open support for the poor decisions executed by management, but their actions and words are highly transparent and carry little significance.
    One gold member stated to me at the last show case, 'I'll stay gold until they kick me out, these greedy bastards aren't getting the better of me!' Kudos to him, I love his enthusiasm. His attitude is significantly better than mine, as he's still willing to give The Walt Disney Company his hard earned money. I'm not that willing and I know that I'm not alone.
    As for the original question started on this thread, I'm tending to believe Club 33 has become nothing more than a high priced annual passport, full of restrictions and limitations, where customer/guest input is neither wanted nor asked.

  2. #302

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    When shopping for a Rolls Royce (or any high end vehicle), there was always a cute little saying, 'If you ask about the mileage, you probably can't afford it.'
    This is the direction the company is slowly taking Club 33. By adding benefits which cost the company pennies but are high in perceived value they're continually going to increase the prices until they hit a ceiling and people stop joining. I'm convinced the ceiling is quite high and we can expect large dues increases every year along with the addition of more members.
    It was never like this previously and for all intensive purposes, the Club 33 we all loved is dead, or least laying in a field on it's side, breathing hard, flies amassing near open mucous membranes, waiting for someone to put a bullet in it's skull. The replacement is now a flashy, in your face establishment, flaunted, actually quite brazen. Over priced food, underserved members (especially the original members), but with the Mickey Mouse stamp of approval, the wealthy hordes line up to join.
    I'm having a difficult time justifying the expenditure to renew in 2015. It's very apparent Disney doesn't want the gold/silver members as we're occupying valuable member real estate and with us out of the picture, the vacancies will be quickly filled.
    The original club was much more altruistic, genuine, almost tactile in nature. The new club strikes me as just a facade, where the smiles of the support team are not genuine but rather rented year to year. The warm handshakes by the managers are little more than that of an embalmer preparing a corpse.
    I have little doubt that some on this forum are working damage control for the park, showing open support for the poor decisions executed by management, but their actions and words are highly transparent and carry little significance.
    One gold member stated to me at the last show case, 'I'll stay gold until they kick me out, these greedy bastards aren't getting the better of me!' Kudos to him, I love his enthusiasm. His attitude is significantly better than mine, as he's still willing to give The Walt Disney Company his hard earned money. I'm not that willing and I know that I'm not alone.
    As for the original question started on this thread, I'm tending to believe Club 33 has become nothing more than a high priced annual passport, full of restrictions and limitations, where customer/guest input is neither wanted nor asked.
    As an "outsider", someone who loves Disneyland, but has never been, and quite likely never will be, even a visitor to Club 33 - or "34", much less a member, I have still found parts of these discussions interesting.
    Under the circumstances, though, I haven't had much to add to the discussions.
    However, reading this post, I really didn't get how the original exclusive club for people with enough money to afford it could be considered "altruistic".
    Members paid money to enjoy special privileges. Fine.
    However, it's not like they were performing some philanthropic act of benevolence that benefitted others more than themselves. They paid their money, and they enjoyed what their money had bought them.
    As far as the management, were they being altruistic? Plenty of money was required to be a member, and to dine there.
    They weren't giving anything away - even in the "good ol' days", were they?
    It still cost more money than the average Joe could afford, even back then. Profits were still being made, even if they are looking for more profits now. It doesn't sound like anyone involved was being particularly altruistic.

    So, I thought perhaps there was another meaning for the word that I had never been familiar with. I looked it up, and no, it still doesn't make sense to me.


    altruistic
    adjective

    1.unselfishly concerned for or devoted to the welfare of others (opposedto egoistic ).
    2.Animal Behavior. of or pertaining to behavior by an animal that may beto its disadvantage but that benefits others of its kind, often its close relatives.
    Altruistic | Define Altruistic at Dictionary.com


    al·tru·ism

    noun \ˈal-trü-ˌi-zəm\: feelings and behavior that show a desire to help other people and a lack of selfishness

    1: unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others

    Altruistic - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



    So, please explain how Club 33 was an altruistic organization?
    Who did it unselfishly help?




  3. #303

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    I don't think David A and others meant it was altruistic in the sense of philanthropic work so much as the benefits accorded members were more easily and readily extended to people beyond the Club membership rolls than they are today (first, with unlimited comp'd entries for guests of the member provided they dine at the club, and, once that was reined in, unlimited unaccompanied guest reservations. Both of these have since disappeared) This provided an opportunity to extend the Club experience to a greater number of people than the new policy does. In both the modern Club era and pre-2102 Club era, obviously, some members were more "altruistic" than others. The stories of members abusing their privileges and selling admission to the club to the general public are certainly widespread. But so also are the stories of members making longstanding Club dreams come true for many many people (Make a Wish, Honeymoons, Birthdays, etc), with many members going so far as to comp both admission AND the meal for the party. Although these latter actions may not constitute ACTUAL altruism, they certainly reflect extensive generosity.

    To be fair to Club management, however, the new policy could partially reflect the wishes of members who were complaining about how difficult it was to secure a reservation without planning 60 days in advance for every meal. Granted, I personally never experienced much of a problem (and secured an on-demand, day-of reservation on one occasion) but then again that's only one person's observation.

    Alternatively, the "altruism" could refer more to the Club (as an entity)'s attitude toward its members, possibly looking out for their member's satisfaction and welfare moreso than current management.

    Neither of these are linguistically appropriate uses of the word, obviously, but they are probably meant to be more reflective of a sentiment than actual altruism.
    Last edited by Circlevision91; 08-08-2014 at 12:18 PM.

  4. #304

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    Smile Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    When shopping for a Rolls Royce (or any high end vehicle), there was always a cute little saying, 'If you ask about the mileage, you probably can't afford it.'
    RR habitually didn't disclose the horsepower of its engines. If one asked, the standard response was "adequate".

    Moreover any questions about anything under-the-bonnet were usually brushed aside: "We have people to do that for us."

    Similarly in old C33 it would have been shockingly vulgar to bring up subjects like ownership, complaints, cost/benefit, etc.
    ______
    Rachane

  5. #305

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    By adding benefits which cost the company pennies but are high in perceived value they're continually going to increase the prices until they hit a ceiling and people stop joining.
    Do you not see the irony in complaining that a club that priced out 90% of Disneyland guests has now priced out some of their members?

    As for the original question started on this thread, I'm tending to believe Club 33 has become nothing more than a high priced annual passport, full of restrictions and limitations, where customer/guest input is neither wanted nor asked.
    What's wrong with being an Annual Passholder? Many folks are and enjoy it.

  6. #306

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    So, please explain how Club 33 was an altruistic organization?
    It was never an "altruistic organization." That's simply a romanticized, humanistic portrayal of the club. It was always made for the one percenters, the upper echelon of society. It was never genuine because hardly anything is genuine at that level. it was never meant to be accessible, the prices confirm that. Luxury prices are intended to both maximize profit with less volume as well as manage who and who can not buy into it; the larger the sense of exclusivity the greater the demand. That's why Saks Fifth Avenue closes early, why Abercrombie & Fitch gets away with charging middle-class teens three hundred dollars for a jacket, and why C33 can charge the way they do, because if you don't want to buy into it that's perfectly fine, because there is a lengthy list of people that will.

  7. #307

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by denyuntilcaught View Post
    It was never an "altruistic organization." That's simply a romanticized, humanistic portrayal of the club. It was always made for the one percenters, the upper echelon of society. It was never genuine because hardly anything is genuine at that level. it was never meant to be accessible, the prices confirm that. Luxury prices are intended to both maximize profit with less volume as well as manage who and who can not buy into it; the larger the sense of exclusivity the greater the demand. That's why Saks Fifth Avenue closes early, why Abercrombie & Fitch gets away with charging middle-class teens three hundred dollars for a jacket, and why C33 can charge the way they do, because if you don't want to buy into it that's perfectly fine, because there is a lengthy list of people that will.
    Well yes, that's kind of my perspective, too.


    Of course, it is still interesting to read others' viewpoints.
    Quote Originally Posted by Circlevision91 View Post
    I don't think David A and others meant it was altruistic in the sense of philanthropic work so much as the benefits accorded members were more easily and readily extended to people beyond the Club membership rolls than they are today (first, with unlimited comp'd entries for guests of the member provided they dine at the club, and, once that was reined in, unlimited unaccompanied guest reservations. Both of these have since disappeared) This provided an opportunity to extend the Club experience to a greater number of people than the new policy does. In both the modern Club era and pre-2102 Club era, obviously, some members were more "altruistic" than others. The stories of members abusing their privileges and selling admission to the club to the general public are certainly widespread. But so also are the stories of members making longstanding Club dreams come true for many many people (Make a Wish, Honeymoons, Birthdays, etc), with many members going so far as to comp both admission AND the meal for the party. Although these latter actions may not constitute ACTUAL altruism, they certainly reflect extensive generosity.

    To be fair to Club management, however, the new policy could partially reflect the wishes of members who were complaining about how difficult it was to secure a reservation without planning 60 days in advance for every meal. Granted, I personally never experienced much of a problem (and secured an on-demand, day-of reservation on one occasion) but then again that's only one person's observation.

    Alternatively, the "altruism" could refer more to the Club (as an entity)'s attitude toward its members, possibly looking out for their member's satisfaction and welfare moreso than current management.

    Neither of these are linguistically appropriate uses of the word, obviously, but they are probably meant to be more reflective of a sentiment than actual altruism.
    Thanks.
    (Btw CV91, where it says "I'm really at the Met." below your avatar, which Met were you referring to? Metropolitan Museum of Art? Metropolitan Opera House???)

  8. #308

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    I went to college near the Metropolitan Museum of Art and would haunt it's halls often as a respite from studying. Kept me sane.

    Denyuntilcaught sort of helps put things into their proper perspective. Club 33 is and always will be a luxury good. Just like DL itself. Unlike a Bentley (Club 33) or a Beemer (Disneyland) however Disney and it's conglomerate definitely trades off a reputation of warm fuzziness other corporations cannot. It's marketing genius.

  9. #309

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post

    RR habitually didn't disclose the horsepower of its engines. If one asked, the standard response was "adequate".

    Moreover any questions about anything under-the-bonnet were usually brushed aside: "We have people to do that for us."

    Similarly in old C33 it would have been shockingly vulgar to bring up subjects like ownership, complaints, cost/benefit, etc.
    Yes, you're right, it was only in later years that mileage and horsepower were disclosed. I loved that old school mentality. Hence the old rumors that the hoods were sealed, never to be opened except by a dealer. Good Lord, anyone who's owned one will certainly concur that all too frequently being under the hood was a common affair. I always found it relaxing, albeit frustrating, but keeping the old girls running was always enjoyable. It must be a mental illness of an obscure nature, but I actually enjoy calibrating the old SU's always trying to reach that perfect sweet spot.
    You are absolutely correct about the original Club 33 and the discussing of negative issues.
    While I'm not sure of your past experiences, prior to 2012, I honestly never found a need to complain or state so much as a negative word. The old club was an absolute joy and I miss it tremendously.

  10. #310

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by Circlevision91 View Post
    I went to college near the Metropolitan Museum of Art and would haunt it's halls often as a respite from studying. Kept me sane.

    Denyuntilcaught sort of helps put things into their proper perspective. Club 33 is and always will be a luxury good. Just like DL itself. Unlike a Bentley (Club 33) or a Beemer (Disneyland) however Disney and it's conglomerate definitely trades off a reputation of warm fuzziness other corporations cannot. It's marketing genius.
    Wisely stated and you're so correct. Dead on actually!
    It is amazing the number of very decent, hard working folks that cannot honestly see the massive flaws within The Walt Disney Company and will openly/verbally contest that such, do in fact, exist. I'm the first one to admit that I too have consumed my fair share of the kool aide and even to this day I feel the effects, but perhaps with age comes wisdom and a reorganizing of priorities takes precedence. Perhaps I'll end up being the rambunctious gold member who refuses to let go, wouldn't that be a twist! Honestly, at this point in time I can't see that happening.
    The truth regarding Club 33 is that none of us should be here, feeling compelled to post our issues in a forum, but we're the ones who have not given up and feel that perhaps (likely to no avail) we're not quite ready to pierce the club's carotid with a trocar and push the button to begin the flow of formalin. Better to revive than bury.

  11. #311

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by Circlevision91 View Post
    I went to college near the Metropolitan Museum of Art and would haunt it's halls often as a respite from studying. Kept me sane.
    Love the Met - used to be my home away from home, too.
    Denyuntilcaught sort of helps put things into their proper perspective. Club 33 is and always will be a luxury good. Just like DL itself. Unlike a Bentley (Club 33) or a Beemer (Disneyland) however Disney and it's conglomerate definitely trades off a reputation of warm fuzziness other corporations cannot. It's marketing genius.
    Agreed.

  12. #312

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    I've been dining at Club 33 since it opened. As far as the history of its ownership, here's what I know and/or remember: The Club opened as a separate entity from Disneyland in the sense that it had its own stock, license, etc. But from what I recall, that stock was always majority (if not totally) held by Walt Disney Productions.

    I can tell you for a fact that in 1975 at least, Ron Dominguez (who was also Disneyland's top dog) was President of Club 33. I know this because I have a letter from him on Club stationary, which was signed with that title. That letter also contains the copyright Walt Disney Productions. As does the pre-opening prospectus to potential members in 1967.

    I don't think Club 33 was ever owned by Retlaw. Many of the furnishings and art (including the priceless Heinrick Kley collection that is now at the Walt Disney Family Museum) in Club 33 were the personal property of the Disney family (and probably managed by Retlaw), but we were always told it was "on loan" from them.

    Sometime after Eisner came in, the family had their personal property that was displayed at the Club, returned to them. I don't know if the family requested it, or if Disney just didn't want to be responsible for somebody else's property hanging around their park, and asked the family to come fetch their stuff.

    Any items that were selected by the Disney's (sometimes accompanied by Emil Kuri) but were paid for with "Club money" and not directly owned by the Disney's, remained at the Club (and many are still there).

  13. #313

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Do you not see the irony in complaining that a club that priced out 90% of Disneyland guests has now priced out some of their members?
    What's wrong with being an Annual Passholder? Many folks are and enjoy it.
    We're not upset about the money aspect, I merely mentioned where it's headed. Disney can charge $20k in annual dues, which will probably occur within five years and if people want to join, wonderful! Sign your checks, visit Mickey and have fun. That is what Disneyland is all about.

    My issue is being openly lied to by Disney staff regarding 2014 benefits and the exceedingly poor treatment to the original gold and silver members.

    As for being a pass holder, Good Lord man, I held an annual pass for many, many years as do my children to this day. We dearly enjoyed our annual passes and how did you discern anything remotely negative about annual passes or annual pass holders? Many of my happiest times in the park where via our AP's.
    In many ways, joining Club 33 those many years ago was the greatest aspect of our Disneyland life adventure and also the demise. One could easily compare it to a moth flying too close to the flame until being burned. The new club and it's management has literally singed our wings in regards to the park and after being burned, one finds it difficult to enjoy.

    Somehow my good man, you're missing the points being made here and you're reading into this far too deeply, searching for negative connotations which simply don't exist.

    You obviously love the park as much as I do, as do most people on this forum and we are only here hoping to achieve some degree of recompense.
    Last edited by David A; 08-08-2014 at 03:12 PM.

  14. #314

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by David A View Post
    When shopping for a Rolls Royce (or any high end vehicle), there was always a cute little saying, 'If you ask about the mileage, you probably can't afford it.'
    This is the direction the company is slowly taking Club 33. By adding benefits which cost the company pennies but are high in perceived value they're continually going to increase the prices until they hit a ceiling and people stop joining. I'm convinced the ceiling is quite high and we can expect large dues increases every year along with the addition of more members.
    It was never like this previously and for all intensive purposes, the Club 33 we all loved is dead, or least laying in a field on it's side, breathing hard, flies amassing near open mucous membranes, waiting for someone to put a bullet in it's skull. The replacement is now a flashy, in your face establishment, flaunted, actually quite brazen. Over priced food, underserved members (especially the original members), but with the Mickey Mouse stamp of approval, the wealthy hordes line up to join.
    I'm having a difficult time justifying the expenditure to renew in 2015. It's very apparent Disney doesn't want the gold/silver members as we're occupying valuable member real estate and with us out of the picture, the vacancies will be quickly filled.
    The original club was much more altruistic, genuine, almost tactile in nature. The new club strikes me as just a facade, where the smiles of the support team are not genuine but rather rented year to year. The warm handshakes by the managers are little more than that of an embalmer preparing a corpse.
    I have little doubt that some on this forum are working damage control for the park, showing open support for the poor decisions executed by management, but their actions and words are highly transparent and carry little significance.
    One gold member stated to me at the last show case, 'I'll stay gold until they kick me out, these greedy bastards aren't getting the better of me!' Kudos to him, I love his enthusiasm. His attitude is significantly better than mine, as he's still willing to give The Walt Disney Company his hard earned money. I'm not that willing and I know that I'm not alone.
    As for the original question started on this thread, I'm tending to believe Club 33 has become nothing more than a high priced annual passport, full of restrictions and limitations, where customer/guest input is neither wanted nor asked.
    Your posts are awesome! Lots of great descriptors in there.

    I just don't think there is any hope for a return to Club33 standards. And, nor do I really care about the outcome.
    But your posts keep bringing me back to read.

    Next suggestion: Go up the ladder some more. Or, find some more Club Members who feel the same way. Downside to this is, as others (I think you, too) have already stated, there is no motivation for them to change. There is a waiting list filled with innocents who will take you place, and the places of 50-100 members at the snap of a finger. And their initiation fees, ooh, that sweet, sweet jingle of cold hard cash!

    Or, sharpen up your lawyers for a joust.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  15. #315

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    Re: Under current management, is Club 33 a 'true club' or an upper level Annual Passp

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachane View Post

    Speaking of which, I also want to talk to them about donating one of the 4' EFX Nautilus models. Their present 20KL exhibit is scandalously dinky.

    .
    Umm.... I've got two unfinished Brodeen 31"ers.(no time to finish them).. I'd gladly accept a donated 48" EFX one...

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