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  1. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarTopDancer
    Why does Tomorroland have to be Tomorrowland still? Tomorrow is today. Technology is here now. I think the only things that would be really innovative would be something like Mission:Space, attractions themed around space travel and deep sea life/living. I can't see anything having to do with our every day living that would be totally innovative.
    I totally agree. Attractions like Innovention don't really work because you can't keep the "Wow" factor going. Tomorrow's technology is out of date before you even get it installed.

    At Disneyland Paris they don't have a "Tomorrowland" they do "Discoveryland". That makes a lot of sense to me. I know it isn't popular to those of you who grew up on Disney's state-side parks, but it does solve a critical problem with the theme of Tomorrowland.

    You can still have space and tech themes, but they don't have to be about "Tomorrow".
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  2. #167

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    yes and no

    I presently think that a literal tomorrow (which is what Innoventions is and what TL 67 was) isn't possible

    but I also don't think Discoveryland is working too well either, in a science/future themed land people want to experience space and they want to experience Sci-fi, the future that never was doesn't quite match up with the Sci Fi expiences that are derived more from the old silver/white city ideas which is why I think WDW does the best for that, Discoveryland was nice at first but with Space Mountain Mission II and now Buzz I just don't see the visions theme working (don't even get me started on how terrible it turned out in Disneyland)

    litteral science is more of Epcots angle and that needs a bit of tweaking too I supose

  3. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disguy
    I'm probably one of very few people who would like to see Star Tours gone for good. Why bother spending all the cash for just another updated movie? It's just going to get old again except this time I would bet it will get older much faster.
    I will second your opinion. Be gone with Star Tours, but I will go a few steps farther.

    Be gone with any new PeopleMover and forget the Submarines.

    The cries for old, dated attractions kills me. Where is the call for new, modern, up-to-date attractions? Where is our 3-D dark ride. Where is our high tech simulator. Come on, outdated attractions are hardly a draw to bring people in.

    I'd love to see Tomorrowland be the land it used to be, but not with the attractions of yesterday.

  4. #169

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    While they have there differences, the WDW Tomorrowland and Disneyland Tomorrowland are basically the same Rustic theme, only Walt Disney World's Tomorrowland got a better budget then the penny pinchers gave Disneyland's Tomorrowland '98

  5. #170

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    [QUOTE=cfparkmanager].

    Be gone with any new PeopleMover and forget the Submarines.

    QUOTE]


    NO!


    While old attractions shouldnt be brought back, the Subs is a different story. They already have a fleet of 8 submarines, a whole lagoon built, and a dock, ALL already built. If you UPDATED this ride so it is as "high tech" as you speak of, thats what we want to happen

    And you say NEW peoplemover. You said you dont want any old, obsolete attractions brought back but you want NEW ones. But you also dont want a NEW peoplemover. Dont contradict yourself, and what else are we going to do with those dust-collecting tracks?

  6. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by mp3piratesavvy
    While they have there differences, the WDW Tomorrowland and Disneyland Tomorrowland are basically the same Rustic theme, only Walt Disney World's Tomorrowland got a better budget then the penny pinchers gave Disneyland's Tomorrowland '98
    you've never discribed HOW WDW is rustic and not Sci Fi

    just because you say it doesn't quite make it true

    WDW's screams Sci Fi and a pretty modern interpitation at that

    WDW and DL's budgets were probably almost the same, the thing is that while WDW's built and added on to what was already there and brought everything up to a new modern level, DL's tried to become DLP's when it wasn't designed to be Discoveryland and then they tried to reinvent so many things everything just fell apart

  7. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfparkmanager
    I will second your opinion. Be gone with Star Tours, but I will go a few steps farther.

    Be gone with any new PeopleMover and forget the Submarines.

    The cries for old, dated attractions kills me. Where is the call for new, modern, up-to-date attractions? Where is our 3-D dark ride. Where is our high tech simulator. Come on, outdated attractions are hardly a draw to bring people in.

    I'd love to see Tomorrowland be the land it used to be, but not with the attractions of yesterday.
    while I dissagree on star tours (there are a few ways that this could last longer AND it really is still popular with quite a few groups of people and it's popularity picks up more durring the tourist season)

    I also dissagree with removing the peoplemover as an updated version could work and nothing else is ever going to work on those tracks (and no other attraction type can FIT on those tracks)

    Subs need to be totaly reworked no doubt

    I will agree that I don't like the cry for the return of stuff like the Skyway (ugly eyesore that that thing was) and the exact same paint scheme (I'd want a different one) or the flying saucers or some of the other yesterland crud that wasn't that big a deal that people seem to cry about

  8. #173

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    If you havent realized already, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is trying to streamline all Park's operations to be the same: as WDW. Think about it. All of the TL in the Disney parks have a similar theme (As for WDW and DL, WDW is DL minus the Da Vinci/european crazy inventors). And considering they wouldnt even pay for the track to be banked on the Rocket Rods, I highly doubt they got the same budget

  9. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by mp3piratesavvy
    If you havent realized already, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is trying to streamline all Park's operations to be the same: as WDW. Think about it. All of the TL in the Disney parks have a similar theme (As for WDW and DL, WDW is DL minus the Da Vinci/european crazy inventors). And considering they wouldnt even pay for the track to be banked on the Rocket Rods, I highly doubt they got the same budget
    not quite, they may be trying but plans change and generaly they change things as the clone/copy them

    actualy if you've read some of Jim Hill's articles you'll see that WDW didn't get the whole future that never was theme but in fact ended up getting a watered down Tomorrowland 2055 theme that was origionaly planed for Disneyland (AE the paint scheme the space station type atmosphere that was all planned for Disneyland but WDW got a redo first and by that time Paris was being built and the company had decided to instead focas on the future that never was so DL ended up getting a totaly different makeover)



    and no I don't think your comprehending what these makeovers encompassed

    WDW got a redo of it's main entryway facades and minor paint tweaks on the areas further in the back of the park

    DL got a redo of it's main entry facades plus a complete recolor of the areas in the back

    WDW redid its peoplemover with new effects but for the most part kept the same system running they also changed the name to TTA

    Disneyland tried to get GM to sponsor Rocket Rods and put in new track over the entire route (GM bailed and so they couldn't afford to bank the turns) DL's redo required an entire new ride system to be developed and cost much more to install (more money went there though it was wasted)

    WDW took it's existing rocket jets tossed out the old covering and created a new themed shell as well as putting up that whole spinning planets thing

    Disneyland decided to simply clone Paris's orbiter but it wouldn't work on the platform so they set it on the ground then spent more money destroying the elevator and retheming the old rocket jets (more money spent in DL, money saved long term by no elevator but redo still costing more I think)

    WDW took the old Mission to Mars building added in new AA's and effects to the seats and opend it as A:E

    Disneyland destroyed the inside of Mission to Mars and turned it into Rocket Redds Pizza (debatable but WDW probably got the better deal)

    WDW added an animatronic to one of their resturants

    Disneyland added an expensive fountain display out in front of Space Mountain

    WDW added AA's to their Circlevision and copied over Paris timekeeper

    Disneyland redid the entire magic eye theator for effects used in HISTA and then moved the movie over (money spent goes to Disneyland)

    WDW did nothing to CoP (possibly refurbed it)

    Disneyland looked for buisnesses to run displays in the building, payed tons of $$$ to get it spinning again with a new motor as well as totaly revamping the inside, got Tom Morrow animatronic (it's pretty well sponsored though isn't it? I'm not sure how Disney did on this one)


    WDW enhanced what worked and saved money while adding new experiences

    DL tried to add totaly new things with the same amount (if not more) money but everything was only done half way through, without a good followthrough or making efficent use of what was already right infront of them DL's Tomorrowland crashed and burned while WDW's Tomorrowland kept working with only a few minor problems

  10. #175

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    Actually, before WDW's rehab, the colors matched those of Disneyland's. The whites, blues, and silvers were as much a part of WDW's TL as it was DL's tomorrowland. But when they got refurbished, they got a SIMILAR theme/paint scheme

  11. #176

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    Actually here is the difference between the themes of the DL and WDW Tomorrowlands (Everyone probably knows this but I felt it might need clairification in this discussion.):

    Disneyland Tomorrowland: Based on a "Future that never was" inspired by the works of Jules Verne, Leonardo Devinci, and H.G. Wells. Victorian deco and styles, originally meant to have rides that were more fantasy in nature, based on technologies that they thought would one day come to pass (ex: Time Keeper, Rocket Rods). Yes, this tommorowland redo was a very waterd down version of the Paris "Discovery Land" and we all know this has turned into one of the biggest fiascos in Disney history.

    Walt Disney World Tomorrowlanmd: Based on a "Future that never was". HOWEVER, this version is inspired by the serials of the 1930s - 50s such as "Buck Rogers" and "Flash Gordon" as well the campy sci fi films of the time like "Forbidden Planet", "Them!", and "War of the Worlds". This version is pretty original except that it took several elements from the Tommorowland 2055 project (such as Alien Encounter.)

    Also, Im fairly certain the WDW tomorrowland redo had a larger budget then the tragic '98 redo of DL's tomorrowland.

  12. #177

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    it took more then just a bit of the Tomorrowland 2055 project

    Sonny Eclipse is clearly a throwback to the origional idea of a circlevision band that had crashed their spaceship and were performing to get back to their home planet

    Alien Encounter is an obvious droppoff and the whole theme right up to the sign (which admittedly is more of a modern/retro mix then just the pure retro crud we got at DL)

    the paint scheme is also very much like what TL2055 had

    the only things that even hint at this whole retro theme that hit DL and Paris (nothing ever hit Tokyo unless you want to argue that Tokyo DIDN'T get a redo so that it could match the retro theme) are the Timekeeper and the Astro Orbiter (which was done differently then the retro esque paris one that DL got and also different from the one Hong Kong is getting, theirs is based off a more modern solar system model)

    if there was a plan to retroize WDW's tomorrowland it wasn't fully thought out and they just took alot of the TL2055 and simply wrote down it's insperations

    even if it is inspired by old ideas WDW's tomorrowland isn't retro themed at all, it has a very modern space port theme to it (alot of things built in Disneyland/WDW have insperations and it's not like the travel to the future to get them, WDW's builds off of alot of what modern people still imagine the future to be like but does so in a fantasy type fashion hence why WDW's tomorrowland looks like the future while DL's looks like it was taken out of the notbooks of old philosophers that loved bronze)

    I can't find my article now but I will find it, alot of what WDW did was TL2055 work, the Tomorrow that never was theme was still in the works at that point but as far as redo's go WDW managed to avoid most of it

    I'm not sure on how much money went into most redos but I still believe that if Disneyland hadn't tried to build Rocket Rods but instead simply rethemed the Peoplemover and Rocket Jets into a WDW esque orbiter, they probaly would've still had enough money to add in an Alien Encounter overlay to our Mission to Mars as well as throw timekeeper into our Circlevision (ontop of stuff like HISTA and the facade redo's) that alone would have made our Tomorrowland much more worth visiting

    I would also say that at this point the Disney company's tomorrowland attractions arn't really following through with the retro theme either, Star Tours is still present in most Tomorrowlands and doesn't match the theme, but even moreso they've added Buzz to every single tomorrowland and Buzz really only matches the Space port theme in WDW (and maybe Tokyo's just a bit because Tokyo's is weird and didn't get a redo :P) The recent string of Space Mountain redo's also screams modern spaceport and so does most of the design of HK DL (at least so far)

    the only retro discoveryland theme that's come off really well and worked isn't in a magic Kingdom, Tokyo's Discovery bay works well because it was origionaly concepted for an origional park (and Tokyo's not in the trouble that Paris is so I doubt we'll see them butchering up their theme)

  13. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfparkmanager
    The cries for old, dated attractions kills me. Where is the call for new, modern, up-to-date attractions? Where is our 3-D dark ride.
    Disney doesn't build them any more.... Too expensive to build. Too expensive to maintain. Last one was "The Great Movie Ride".... Don't expect any more.

    Now, don't get mad at me... I'm not saying Disney shouldn't build them. I'm just pointing out that Disney doesn't build them.


    Quote Originally Posted by cfparkmanager
    Where is our high tech simulator.
    So it too can be "out of date" in half the time it takes to pay back the investment?

    Quote Originally Posted by cfparkmanager
    Come on, outdated attractions are hardly a draw to bring people in.

    I'd love to see Tomorrowland be the land it used to be, but not with the attractions of yesterday.

    Looking honestly at the budget constraints, the choice is not "return old rides" or "build all new rides". The choice is "old rides" or "no rides".

  14. #179

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    I dunno Jspider, The architecture of WDWs tomorrowland is very retro campy scifiy and the displays they have while riding the TTA/Peoplemover are cleary a throwback to how people in the 30s-50s saw the future (Very Jetsons like). Also from what I understand the paint scheme for TL2005 was like Purple, Bright Green, and black while the WDW tomorrowland is mostly blue and white. In my opinion, Pre-98 Redo DL Tomorrowland had a very modern space port theme(something I personally prefer to all the fantasy/retro concepts) moreso then wdw's.

  15. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostbuster626
    I dunno Jspider, The architecture of WDWs tomorrowland is very retro campy scifiy and the displays they have while riding the TTA/Peoplemover are cleary a throwback to how people in the 30s-50s saw the future (Very Jetsons like). Also from what I understand the paint scheme for TL2005 was like Purple, Bright Green, and black while the WDW tomorrowland is mostly blue and white. In my opinion, Pre-98 Redo DL Tomorrowland had a very modern space port theme(something I personally prefer to all the fantasy/retro concepts) moreso then wdw's.
    really? I thought the 2055 had blues and silvers,

    I see a bit of a campy feel the Sci-Fi but I don't see much retro, if it IS retro it isn't overt retro the way that Discoverland is and the way they tried to be with Disneylands it has a pretty modern type feel to it

    and from what I recall Disneyland's origional tomorrowland theme was the city of the future as opposed to the space port of the future

    Disneyland deffinatly had the city look (and still does but it's all misspainted, they entry arches really need to go back to silver) and WDW's deffinatly has a space port feel to it the way the facades are redone

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