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  1. #16

    • LoisAlene
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    My heart goes out to everyone involved. The boy's family, the young person who was driving the car - and to the paramedics who had to respond to the scene. Reading about this tragedy reminds us of our own fragility and briefness of life. Cherish it. Namu Amida Butsu.
    Last edited by Momzilla59; 03-29-2005 at 07:57 PM.


    War is over if you want it...

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  2. #17

    • Minion
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    Wow that is really sad.
    I haven't used that exit side for many years, but I have seen the traffic, and I can see where an inexperienced driver could run into problems. I get spooked sometimes crossing the main crosswalk at South Harbor, the locals get agitated at the endless stream of pedestrians. But that is a more controlled area I think.
    How tragic.

  3. #18

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    Very horrific and sad, my heart goes out to the families. The city of Anaheim needs to install at all intersections where people cross, Bot Dots that Have flashing lights in them. (The Markers on the ground between lanes)

    I'm not saying that this is Disney's Fault or the City. When The City Of Modesto had Four fatal Crosswalks from their Junior College, they installed these. Fog was also a factor alot up here.
    Part of the crosswalks had big Painted Yellow crossings with lighted "Bot Dots" Cross signals included. This might improve visibility. It has made people slow down as well. I realize this after the fact but this waht they should do with such high pedestrian traffic coming and going to DL.
    Last edited by Alchimedes; 03-29-2005 at 08:46 PM.
    1st Amendment-Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  4. #19

    • Circle of Ancients
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    I have thought for years (staying at the off-site hotels) that they really need pedestrian walk-ways across the streets.

    Of course this is not Disney's fault, and it's not something that can be prevented unfortunately.

    Maybe the city will think about at least cost-sharing pedestrian walkways now in conjunction with the hotels, the convention center and Disney.

    Sad that it takes something like this for things to change.


  5. #20

    • Leave 'em wanting more!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan-500
    They were leaving disney. And disney has nothing to do with the roads. That would be your local road department.
    Actually, the entire Anaheim Resort and it's improvement is directly related to Disney, The Hotels, the Convention Center and the City of Anaheim. They *all* should be doing something about it. Disney, in this case, has everything to do with the roads.

    That crosswalk from the Main Entrance across Harbor to the Good Neighbor Hotels is an accident waiting to happen.
    ~ Tasty, yet morally ambiguous! ~

  6. #21

    • My Children's Father
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    (stepping onto soapbox)

    Crosswalks are prime example of the belief that there are no certainties in life, only probabilities. Most people will never be hit by a car while using a crosswalk, but some people will. And there are many factors which can affect the probability of someone being hit. Obvious factors include the number of pedestrians, amount of vehicular traffic, percentage of drivers "familiar" with the crosswalk, distractions in the area, etc.

    Speaking of distractions, the flashing pavement markers described by TicTocDragon might not work here. Studies have shown that they sometimes serve to distract drivers that otherwise would have observed the pedestrians without the lights. Tourists (of which I'm sure there is a high percentage driving down that stretch of Katella) would likely not understand the meaning of the flashing lights, and would be subject to severe distractions ("Look daddy! There's the Mickey Mouse roller coaster!). Distraction is the root cause of the problem with driving while using a cell phone.

    Then there's my personal belief that most Californians are unaccustomed to having pedestrians around (" ... Only a Nobody walks in L.A. ...") .....

    Is there a solution? Not really, remember, there are no certainties, only probabilities. There are things we can do to reduce the probability of crosswalk accidents. The City of Anaheim, probably in conjunction with Disney, could construct either a pedestrian overcrossing (bridge) or undercrossing (tunnel) at the major crosswalks. There are a number of challenges (besides cost) that must be faced with either of those options .... aesthetics must be considered, and then there are other possible liabilities (muggings/assaults/other crime in a tunnel, suicides/dropping object on cars from a bridge) that must be addressed.

    Meanwhile, we all need to be very careful. As pedestrians, we need to observe the cars that might run us over to make sure they are stopping for us. If possible, try to see what the driver is looking at. Is he watching the road, or the Monorail? Don't j-walk or cross without the proper "walk" signal. As drivers, we must remember that our number one priority at that time , regardless of what is happening in our lives or where we are at the time, is to safely drive our vehicle.

    (steps off soapbox)

    I am sorry for all parties involved in the accident on Katella .....
    "She's taking everything. She's taking the house, she's taking the kid, she's taking the dog. IT'S NOT EVEN HER DOG. IT'S MY DOG! SHE'S TAKING . . . MY DOG!"
    - Ron Livingston, "Band of Brothers"

  7. #22

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    Giant Panda has a great point obviously! Probabilites are there with anything.

    -Aesthetics!! Pleeeease!! If it helps reduce loss of life- let it happen. Pedestrian overcrossings invade privacy, Create trash & graffitti. More COST!!

    The Cross walks should stand out and speed limits should be reduced through there. Is it 40mph through there? Shees. That is way to fast for a high pedestrian area. It should be reduced to 25 mph.

    Since the City Of Modesto put those in, and reduced the speed, they have not had an incident since they were installed. They have also seen improvements in the area of Elementary schools.
    I'm just saying to improve visibility, this would help. This is a positive.

    And yes everytime I have stayed at the Hotels across the street on Harbor blvd, WHOA, I have seen close calls with Buses, cars, SUV'S. Especially the transport Buses coming out of the Bus Drop off, they just keep inching forward toward that crosswalk.
    Mainly, Yes it is the drivers. But also I have seen Pedestrians assume it is ok to cross when three cars run a red light. Solution to cell phone- How about no phones!!!
    1st Amendment-Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  8. #23

    • What have I done?
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    I live and work just down the street Harbor is a giant hazard we know. But off of Katella? Not too sure really I can take a look after work but that is behind DCA sounds like in front of Anaheim Convention Ctr. City of Anaheim property. Didnt the report say a minor was driving? Under the age of 18 or 21? Either way sadly not sure if much will change there. Perhaps add cross walks with lights, or cross walk raised with bumps, or bigger signage is all I can say.

    "This guy!"

  9. #24

    • RalphMouth
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    who's been to Las Vegas ??

    why not have upper cross walks similar to what's at some of the major
    intersections on 'The Strip' ??

  10. #25

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    Anaheim wont pay to have that done unless it is funded by someone else. I do not work for the city, I only work next to them, I have no insight except from my experiences living here.

    "This guy!"

  11. #26

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    This is unfortunate. This really brings up a huge issue in regards to guest safety and cost tradeoff.

    In Las Vegas, they have overhead pedestrian access to complement their monorail systems and other inventions of the 1980's. Not only do overhead crossings ensure safe pedestrian access, but it helps traffic congestion. It is dissappointing to see the same company that once had moving walkways, the WEDway Peoplemover, and the 1st monorail system having such primative transportation options in the year 2005.

    It doesn't surprise me one bit to see that Disney is not willing to spend one penny for guests to go to non-Disney hotels. Keep in mind that they went cheap on access to their own hotels (Paradise Pier) and parking garage.
    Disneyland allows me to escape the everyday stresses and routines of a Southern Californian resident.

    California Adventure brings me right back to the place I was trying to avoid in the first place.

  12. #27

    • Disneyland with Bob Ross
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    I've not read through all the threads yet, but where these people in a cross-walk when struck? If not they were "J-walking". This was a major issue before DCA was ever around and people would walk past and through the employee parking to cross Harbour to get to McDonalds. Thats why the city or Disney put up that fencing in the center median. Not to sound distasteful, but maybe those signs they have on the freeway at or near immigration check points warning of people trying to play Frogger on the freeway should be placed with yellow caution lights near the resort along with reduced speed limits.

    With respect to the pedestrian bridges in Vegas, I live in Vegas. The bridges were built long before the city monorail was constructed. The ones that were built aren't even close to the monorail which originally ran from MGM to Ballys as the monorail is behind those properties. The main reason was to allow for better traffic flow and pedestrian safety. In Vegas we have 24 hr drinking (no last call) and are allowed open containers on "The strip". People who are on vacation think of the strip as being in a theme park rather than a city street. Needless to say, even when they have the red hand at the light or the street light in the direction was red they'd still cross the street. During peek times of the year, primarily conventions and summer, cars needing to make a right turn off the strip could never do so because of the constant flow of people crossing. The bridges were built to allow for better traffic and less motor vehicle accidents involving pedestrians. The casions which the bridges connected shared the cost of construction with the city. As a safer person crossing a bridge into their property is more likely to spend money than a dead person.

    The only thing I'd have against for a pedestrian bridge around DCA is being able to see them from inside the park when they continue their build out. Granted there are already power lines and other buildings to be seen, but why add more if you don't have to? What about tunnels at the intersection serving as crosswalks
    Last edited by XterraceEmp; 03-30-2005 at 10:06 AM.
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  13. #28

    • My Children's Father
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    Quote Originally Posted by XterraceEmp
    The only thing I'd have against for a pedestrian bridge around DCA is being able to see them from inside the park when they continue their build out. Granted there are already power lines and other buildings to be seen, but why add more if you don't have to? What about tunnels at the intersection serving as crosswalks
    Tunnels might be more aesthetically pleasing, but a major headache (not just a cost, I'm talking real migraines here ) would be dealing with all of the utilities, drain pipes, etc. under the street in both Katella and Harbor. A bridge would be much easier to construct. Not to mention the increased potential for crime ....
    "She's taking everything. She's taking the house, she's taking the kid, she's taking the dog. IT'S NOT EVEN HER DOG. IT'S MY DOG! SHE'S TAKING . . . MY DOG!"
    - Ron Livingston, "Band of Brothers"

  14. #29

    • I Hug My Tapirs
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    This is really sad. I think it's a strong reminder for everyone to pay attention when you're driving. You're licensed to drive a very heavy, fast-moving vehicle... people need to actually pay attention as such! It's terrible that someone had to learn this lesson the hard way, and that another family had to pay such a heavy price for them to learn that lesson. I only wish that others would learn from hearing about mistakes like this... unfortunately, I know they won't.

    My thoughts and prayers are with the family.
    "I don't need intelligent drugs because I don't know what they are. But I will put anything into my mouth that is given to me, whether it's supposed to go there or not. Because... I'm different."


  15. #30

    • Shubisha
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    I don't know about crossing the actual street but I'm always worried going through that entrance because you go right through a gate and are suddenly in the way of the way cars enter/leave the parking lot. they have a sign "watch for through traffic" but you seriously have to stop before you go through it and poke your head out to check first.

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