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  1. #1

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    Question MSEP Music-A technical question

    The following is a question regarding the soundtrack for MSEP....or now DEP. I took a Music Appreciation class and learned about classical musical forms. I also noticed that many of these forms are still used today.

    My question is this. Is the "Baroque Hoedown" adaptation for the soundtrack of the Electrical Parade technically a Fugue? My guess would be yes because the music keeps going back to the "Theme" over and over again but done differently. Am I technically correct. Any music majors out there?
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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    Sorry, not a music major.

    here's what wikipedia said, not sure if it's helpful or not

    The Main Street Electrical Parade's theme song, "Baroque Hoedown" by electronic music artists Perrey and Kingsley has even been covered by two famous musical groups: They Might Be Giants and Reel Big Fish. In Japan, Walt Disney Records released a CD called DJ Digs Main Street Electrical Parade which featured the theme music remixed by Japanese DJs. The version used in the parade was arranged by Don Dorsey.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disney%...ctrical_Parade


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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    It's been about a year since I've heard the music, but I don't believe it is a fugue. A fugue would have a stated subject (melody) which would be then carried into other voice parts. It would also involve a counter subject and so on. The repeated melodic section in the hoedown goes by so quickly I don't believe it has time to be stated and restated in different voices. There may be some fugue-like elements in this section (the melody shifting to other voice parts with a polyphonic texture) but the short answer to your question is.....I don't think so. As for the theme repeating again but in different ways, this was a baroque writing device referred to as "theme and variations." The use of the harpsichord and polyphonic texture are what make this piece sound baroque.

    Hope that helps.

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    Cool Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    Quote Originally Posted by localdisnyfan
    It's been about a year since I've heard the music, but I don't believe it is a fugue. A fugue would have a stated subject (melody) which would be then carried into other voice parts. It would also involve a counter subject and so on. The repeated melodic section in the hoedown goes by so quickly I don't believe it has time to be stated and restated in different voices. There may be some fugue-like elements in this section (the melody shifting to other voice parts with a polyphonic texture) but the short answer to your question is.....I don't think so. As for the theme repeating again but in different ways, this was a baroque writing device referred to as "theme and variations." The use of the harpsichord and polyphonic texture are what make this piece sound baroque.

    Hope that helps.

    Thanks!

    I just listened to the music with "cans" on (headphones for those of you who don't know the audio engineer term). You are probably right. The reason is that if you listen closely the theme never stops. you always hear the theme embedded under the differend segments (it's just at a much lower volume)

    BTW if you have the music on CD you owe it to yourself to listen to it with stereo headphones. You'll notice some very neat things like how some sound elements pan from left to right and back again. Also You hear Elliot breathing during the Pete's Dragon sequence.
    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    I've always been fascinated by how the medley of other songs is arranged in counterpoint to the "Baroque Hoedown".

    It really is an art form unto itself.

    The electrosynthemagnetic instrumentation is so imaginative, too. Synthesizers have an undeservedly bad reputation, but, really, they allow artists and musicians to create sounds that were previously impossible to produce. And, those sounds certainly contribute to the otherworldly quality of the parade.

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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBopper
    The reason is that if you listen closely the theme never stops. you always hear the theme embedded under the differend segments (it's just at a much lower volume)
    just so ya know.. which you probably do... the theme never stops but it's not "a part" of each segment's music. in the real parade they fade down the background speakers which play the main theme on constant loop, and all of the floats have their segment's audio playing entirely separately. this is so that you're never without music even when there isn't a float in front of you. on the cd release they just made sure to underlay that loop in all the sections to keep some authenticity to it. i have no idea what a fugue is but I dunno if that makes any impact for you =D

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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    I don't know what kind of music it is, but it always makes me cry! (Tears of happiness of course)

    Will trade husband for Disneyland and DCA Pins!

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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    BDBopper, I'll do my best to help...I am a music major...well WAS...I did my Graduate work in piano performance and pedagogy, so there may some validity to what I'm going to say - LOL!
    "LocalDisneyFan" explained the "Baroque Hoedown" quite well. It's not really a true fugue in that a fugue would have a subject (a melody line), and a counter-subject (an adaptation of the melody line). The Baroque Hoedown (BH) was composed in Baroque fashion (like Bach, Scarlatti, etc..). It is what we call a "contrapuntal" piece. It has many, many overlays of melody: ie: Alice/Peter Pan/Cinderella all going while the baroque "melody" is playing. The reason why it can't techinically be called a fugue is because it has no counter-subject. If the subject was played backwards or upside-down or if the whole thing was a "round" (Row, Row, Row Your Boat...Row, Row, Row Your Boat, etc..) then, it would be a simple fugue.
    Gosh, sorry for the extensive music theory lesson...haha! But, everyone is on the right track in thinking that it is a fugue because of course, all the melodies going on at once (which is what is so charming about the piece) and that the fugue was the compositional style that was "HOT" during the Baroque Era! It's one of my favorite pieces to listen to. You should hear other Baroque-inspired compositions by the same composer, or check out the "Swingle Singers" who SING some fugues!!! IT's really COOL! They really bring out all the voices and everything! I even used some of their CDs to study for my Graduate Exams. Anyway, let me know if you got totally confused by my poor explanation of things. -Grant
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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    I'm not a Music Major either, but if I was looking for a term I'd call it "a variation" like "The Goldberg Variations" by J. S. Bach

    To quote iTunes: "Diverse Kanons, BWV 1087 7:45 Don Dorsey Bachbusters Classical 14 of 17 192 kbps Johann Sebastian Bach - (1685-1750) 44.100 kHz" Oh, the CD is on Telarc if you want to go look for it in the "Used CD" bins...

    Bach starts off with with a very simple 8-note melody as the 'seed' and goes crazy off in one direction building on the melody - and back to the 8 notes. Then he takes off in a different direction, and again back to the 8 notes, then off on a different riff, but always back to those 8 notes at the end...

    And to tie it back to Disney stuff, hey, it's arranged and recorded by Don Dorsey. It's really good.

    This is one of the album cuts I crank up if some kid pulls up next to me at a light with a "Boom Car" - I punch up 'Toccata and Fugue in D Minor', drop the windows, crank the volume to 11 or 12, and toss it right back at 'em.

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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    I'm an orchestral musician. Definitely not a fugue. More like a rondo, sort of...

    In a fugue, a melody line (theme) is stated and then "followed" (hence the name, "fugue") by restatements in other keys, with the melodies overlapping each other. With a typical Bach fugue, the second statement of the theme starts as the first is ending, but the first melodic line continues after the second has begun. This interplay of melodies is called "counterpoint" and is created by the dovetailing/overlapping of the fugue statements in their different keys.

    A rondo is a type of musical form where an initial theme (melody plus its accompaniment, usually) is stated and then left, but returned to repeatedly. If we call the initial theme "A" and the other themes (which are completely different) "B", "C", etc., the rondo form is like so: A-B-A-C-A-D-A.

    Really, the Baroque Hoedown is not much of a rondo either, because the underlying music that all the barges play off of is just a loop that goes back and forth between A and B sections: A-B-A-B-A-B... The fact that the music returns to "A" repeatedly doesn't technically make it a fugue. There's no development of the theme and no counterpoint that would create the polyphony typical of a fugue.

  11. #11

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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    So would a couple of people singing row row row your boat be a fugue? (could we get some examples of things that are each and things that seem similar to each but aren't? I'm kind of curious now )

  12. #12

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    Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    Row Row Row Your Boat would only become a fugue if a composer were to use, let's say, the first two bars as a subject. After the first two bars, the original melodic line would break off in counterpoint against the next introduction of Row Row Row Your Boat in a different voice, "voice" referring to another musical line in a higher or lower register.

    RRRYB in and of itself is a round, or canon. Some of our earliest polyphony was created using something like this technique by composers like Josquin during the early Renaissance who took imitative counterpoint to a whole new level. By the time Bach arrives, polyphony (independent musical lines in counterpoint against each other) had been around for quite awhile. Some people would argue that the Fugue is not so much a form as much as it is a procedure or texture.

    EDTSCH is quite right about the form of MSEP being in AB form. I think. Hmmmm.... It might even be in ABA form which would make it more of a Rondo. As far as I can recall, I think the tune is in two, with two four bar phrases making up the A section, and another two four bar phrases making up the B section. The music was written with the intent of having other recognizeable tunes written in easily over these eight...(or maybe 12....it's really been too long ) ....phrases and has obviously stood the test of time. I'm hoping that they continue to add different tunes and sections to this parade which, I believe, hasn't been touched since...um...1976?
    Last edited by Mac Daddy; 05-01-2006 at 06:07 AM.

  13. #13

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    Cool Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    Quote Originally Posted by almandot
    just so ya know.. which you probably do... the theme never stops but it's not "a part" of each segment's music. in the real parade they fade down the background speakers which play the main theme on constant loop, and all of the floats have their segment's audio playing entirely separately. this is so that you're never without music even when there isn't a float in front of you. on the cd release they just made sure to underlay that loop in all the sections to keep some authenticity to it. i have no idea what a fugue is but I dunno if that makes any impact for you =D
    Thanks for the input. I sisupect that the score is different hearing it in person.
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    Cool Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    Quote Originally Posted by nakturne
    BDBopper, I'll do my best to help...I am a music major...well WAS...I did my Graduate work in piano performance and pedagogy, so there may some validity to what I'm going to say - LOL!
    "LocalDisneyFan" explained the "Baroque Hoedown" quite well. It's not really a true fugue in that a fugue would have a subject (a melody line), and a counter-subject (an adaptation of the melody line). The Baroque Hoedown (BH) was composed in Baroque fashion (like Bach, Scarlatti, etc..). It is what we call a "contrapuntal" piece. It has many, many overlays of melody: ie: Alice/Peter Pan/Cinderella all going while the baroque "melody" is playing. The reason why it can't techinically be called a fugue is because it has no counter-subject. If the subject was played backwards or upside-down or if the whole thing was a "round" (Row, Row, Row Your Boat...Row, Row, Row Your Boat, etc..) then, it would be a simple fugue.
    Gosh, sorry for the extensive music theory lesson...haha! But, everyone is on the right track in thinking that it is a fugue because of course, all the melodies going on at once (which is what is so charming about the piece) and that the fugue was the compositional style that was "HOT" during the Baroque Era! It's one of my favorite pieces to listen to. You should hear other Baroque-inspired compositions by the same composer, or check out the "Swingle Singers" who SING some fugues!!! IT's really COOL! They really bring out all the voices and everything! I even used some of their CDs to study for my Graduate Exams. Anyway, let me know if you got totally confused by my poor explanation of things. -Grant
    Wow. I think I just understood everything you said! LOL Thanks for the info.
    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
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    Cool Re: MSEP Music-A technical question

    Thank you all for your help. Man I really opened up a can of worms didn't i?
    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
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