Adventures Through Inner Space vs. Star Tours

[Jspider]

But you see, that has nothing to do with what I said:
Walt Disney didn't have dark rides outside of Fantasyland on opening day, and neither New Orleans Square nor the World on the Move Tomorrowland included animated movies brought to life.




Hmmm... well, a little research shows he could have built Fantasia, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp, 101 Dalmatians, and Jungle Book, so there was in fact a LOT he could do, IF that was his intent. But, in two MAJOR projects he took on within the park, he chose not to. Fantasyland was, in fact, the only land with toon rides in Walt's time. That's irrefutable fact, thus Todd was making a very logical statement.



If you look at the rides getting rave reviews lately, it's certainly not Disneyland's Pooh. It's Soarin', it's Test Track, it's Mission:Space, it's JTTCOTE... Nothing to do with Disney animation, or even Pixar animation.

Tomorrowland was perfectly balanced way back when. It's only now that Tomorrowland Autopia swallowed up Fantasyland Autopia, Nemo is invading, and the poor Rocket Jets got thrown out to the curb by the hub that the land is getting lopsided.

Buzz is a step in the right direction, but it's a step that would have been largely unnecessary if Star Tours had found a different home.

I can still dissagree, who's to say that those films would have made good rides at all?

it is true that after Disneyland was built Walt was interested in building different things but that doesn't say everything for how Walt would have reacted to changing needs downt he line


and it's interesting that you mentioned Pooh when you speak of rides getting rave reviews last time I checked Pooh in TDL is getting TONS of rave reviews. Roger Rabbit is still very popular with many people inculding teens dispite the fact that almost every other ride containing static sets has been looked down on for this age group, but the combination of new ride vehicals plus good writing really sells Roger Rabbit Pooh in TDL is good because it takes a character which to me is very boring and full of yawns and turns it into an exciting adventure. I would also say that this is why Splash Mountain is so great and not just because people have never seen these characters much before but because the design is great and the writing and style is good and "I" am the star.

Toons arn't limiting if you don't use them as an excuse to not do a good job (which is arguably what Disney is doing with Toons in america, they're taking the assumption that people will love a ride because of the toons and that will make them overlook every other flaw in the ride)

[kayoss]

They need to update Star Tours with the technology in Tokyo's Stormrider. It could be easy to do...with a little creative imagineering. They'd have to demolish the four simulators they have now, and build three larger, newer ones. Probably remove a lot of the loading ramp, add a new film, and there you go....a totally different ride.

[ModHatter]

I can still dissagree, who's to say that those films would have made good rides at all?

it is true that after Disneyland was built Walt was interested in building different things but that doesn't say everything for how Walt would have reacted to changing needs downt he line


and it's interesting that you mentioned Pooh when you speak of rides getting rave reviews last time I checked Pooh in TDL is getting TONS of rave reviews. Roger Rabbit is still very popular with many people inculding teens dispite the fact that almost every other ride containing static sets has been looked down on for this age group, but the combination of new ride vehicals plus good writing really sells Roger Rabbit Pooh in TDL is good because it takes a character which to me is very boring and full of yawns and turns it into an exciting adventure. I would also say that this is why Splash Mountain is so great and not just because people have never seen these characters much before but because the design is great and the writing and style is good and "I" am the star.

Toons arn't limiting if you don't use them as an excuse to not do a good job (which is arguably what Disney is doing with Toons in america, they're taking the assumption that people will love a ride because of the toons and that will make them overlook every other flaw in the ride)

We, my last thoughts on this radical drift off topic... You said a poster couldn't make a claim that Walt's intent was that animated characters would only be brought to life in rides in Fantasyland. Yes, you can DISAGREE with the poster's opinion, but the poster had every right to make such a claim, and the claim is in fact borne out by more than a decade of Imagineering under Walt, and by many animated films that Walt could have turned into rides outside of Fantasyland in his lifetime if it was not Walt's intent to only have them in Fantasyland. More than a dozen new rides outside Fantasy and were buit or greenit during Wat's time, and not a singe one featured animation characters. (Just a side note, during Walt's lifetime, four non-European rides were added to the three that existed there in 1955.)

Saying that Fantasia, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp, 101 Dalmatians, and Jungle Book couldn't've made great rides is not really the point. If Toad made a good ride, any of the other films could have made a good ride. Heck, Jungle Book was already in development when Jungle Cruise was being expanded...

As for Pooh... Yes, I mentioned Disneyland's Pooh, and how it is NOT receiving rave reviews. TDL's is getting rave reviews... but with the same characters? Logically, that means that the ride is getting raves because of what is different from ours (vehicles etc) rather than what is the same (characters).

If you can't make a good ride from a certain film property, don't make the ride. If you can make a good ride from a certain film property, odds are you can make the same ride as good or better without the film property, so why not create something new like they did in NOS?

[Jspider]

We, my last thoughts on this radical drift off topic... You said a poster couldn't make a claim that Walt's intent was that animated characters would only be brought to life in rides in Fantasyland. Yes, you can DISAGREE with the poster's opinion, but the poster had every right to make such a claim, and the claim is in fact borne out by more than a decade of Imagineering under Walt, and by many animated films that Walt could have turned into rides outside of Fantasyland in his lifetime if it was not Walt's intent to only have them in Fantasyland. More than a dozen new rides outside Fantasy and were buit or greenit during Wat's time, and not a singe one featured animation characters. (Just a side note, during Walt's lifetime, four non-European rides were added to the three that existed there in 1955.)

Saying that Fantasia, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp, 101 Dalmatians, and Jungle Book couldn't've made great rides is not really the point. If Toad made a good ride, any of the other films could have made a good ride. Heck, Jungle Book was already in development when Jungle Cruise was being expanded...

As for Pooh... Yes, I mentioned Disneyland's Pooh, and how it is NOT receiving rave reviews. TDL's is getting rave reviews... but with the same characters? Logically, that means that the ride is getting raves because of what is different from ours (vehicles etc) rather than what is the same (characters).

If you can't make a good ride from a certain film property, don't make the ride. If you can make a good ride from a certain film property, odds are you can make the same ride as good or better without the film property, so why not create something new like they did in NOS?

ok here's the way I look at it with Walt. While I would say that you can't prove that Walt WOULDN'T have added characters to other areas of the park I WOULD say that for the most part Walt was not into the process of needlessly throwing characters at every little thing (if you know what I mean)

yes there were other movies that Walt could've done but there were also plenty of generalized themes that hadn't been done back then. Walt didn't seem to "needlesly" add toons

I do however feel that many toons could have a good place and many do well outside of fantasyland. Others are obviously forced (take Tarzan as an example of a needlessly added Toon, Stitch Escape would be an example of what I'd call bad writing for a ride as Stitch takes emphasis in the ride and becomes it's "star" suddenly we're not the Stars the way Walt wanted, instead Stich makes guests become secondary characters that Stitch can throw burp gags at)


and yes that's kinda my point with the Pooh ride, they made good use of the characters and used new ideas

I don't think they need to avoid characters like the plague and I don't think that they shouldn't do origional concepts. I think there is an expectation for them to do both and they SHOULD do both

I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with characters outside of fantasyland, it's perfectly fitting with the feel of the park. What IS wrong is when Disney feels the need to force a character theme on a ride to make it sell or when they update it, characters don't equal timeless. Timeless is when you tell a good story and give someone an unforgetable experience. Characters can be used for this, themes can be used for this and their effectivness ranges in our ability to relate ourselves to these things. However the characters in the end are not going to be what sells the ride it has to be a good ride, just like a celebrity can't get off with a bad movie just because of sheer name/recognition


ultimatly the concept that I think works best for Disney is when they make YOU the star


of course now we're really off topic so I'm going to applogize

[VWSpawn]

I'd say star tours, just a few updates and it would be better

I say the same thing.

[NWRREngineer]

I'd choose ATIS. Call me a clown.

I never got queasy on ATIS.

Seems to me the story could have been adapted to other "micro adventures" than just going through a snowflake, and could have thus been kept interesting.

Not that Star Tours is bad or anything... but I could ride ATIS repeatedly and still enjoy it, whereas a little ST goes a long ways.

[SilentBob66]

I'd choose ATIS. Call me a clown.

[Joe Pesci mode] You're a clown, you're here to amuse us.[/Joe Pesci mode]

[ni_teach]

Adventures Through Inner Space was a great ride but so is Star Tours. I still enjoy riding
Star Tours from time to time and just wish that they would change the destination (movie).

[merlinjones]

Let's all sing: "Be a clown, be a clown... all the world loves a clown..."

Miracles from molecules are happening every day!

[ModHatter]

I'd choose ATIS. Call me a clown.

I never got queasy on ATIS.

Seems to me the story could have been adapted to other "micro adventures" than just going through a snowflake, and could have thus been kept interesting.

Not that Star Tours is bad or anything... but I could ride ATIS repeatedly and still enjoy it, whereas a little ST goes a long ways.

Well, that's one thing I think people are forgetting. Star Tours isn't even 20 years old yet, but it is easily as outdated as ATIS supposedly was when it closed. It hasn't held up well at ALL. Just a walk to the East Side will take you to that other motion simulator, the one where you actually take RANDOM simulations, through an actual 3-D environment... compared to Indy, Star Tours is totally obsolete.

The key difference between that and ATIS? Disney owns all the rights to ATIS, and could have updated it at will. As we know, Star Tours is sort of frozen in time (not a very Tomorrowland thing to be frozen in time, btw) because George Lucas has such a large say in the goings on of the attraction.

Like many things from the Eisner era, Star Tours was created with a very short-term mentality, including its choice of location. And that lack of long-term planning has really caught up with it.

[felixthequick]

dark rides rule, but a new star tours movie would easliy update star tours. what would it cost to make a new move also , about 10 mill. i wonder why they just leave the original in one theatre and make 3 new films. hoth, dagoba and maybe tatooien. leaving the endor express.

[James T Hook]

I will put my vote down for Star Tours, however I remember the first time I went to DL and ran right for Space Mountain at rope drop and as I past ATIS and saw it was closed, I was really bummed. Of Course when Star Tours opened it blew me away. Now after 50 rides and numerous other similar rides, sorry to say.........Boring. Still cool looking, just not exciting anymore. Needs to be updated Now!

[niki0619]

Both are really good attractions. I'd say that both are on the same level of enjoyment, so it's hard to choose one over the other. Updates to either ride would totally work for TL. I do like the idea of ATIS replacing HISTA. Then we could have best of both worlds!

[dshimel]

Let's recap ATIS.

Load into your atom-mobile and go into a giant microscope. The shrinking effect was really pretty lame.. The mini model atomm-mobiles were neat from the queue, but on the ride you just turned to the left and went into the dark.

Then you wehtn through a section with styrofoam snow flakes.... Bigger and bigger styrofoam snow flakes...

Then dark, then water molecules. Three fuzzy balls stuck together. then dark, then a hydrogen atom with a protron and an electron zipping around.

Then... oh no... the ice is melting.... we have to make you big again... Big eyeball looking at you.... done.



Fond memories, but truely lame by today's standards.

[Giant Panda]

Imagine ST with multiple films, some of which would be "minor variations" of one another. Perhaps guest interraction could be factored in ..... Each ride could be different, the same way Indy is slightly different from ride to ride.

It's sill possible, if Iger can mend fences with Lucas .......