Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

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Originally Posted by Frogberto

I'm sure that SpeederScout is going to claim it was his fault, as five year olds are to blame also, on a ride where millions have ridden without injury.

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On the Fackler incident, his foot was caught between the train and the loading station while the train was pulling in. Not necessarily his fault, but maybe the adult he was riding with? What part of "keep your hands, arms, feet and legs inside the vehicle at all times" was not understood here? :judge:

Just my .02 on that one.


Anyhow, love your posts, and I have a tip to add: Much as it's fun to ride in the afternoon because of the speed, riding after dark is also a very different experience. Friends used to tell me this and I didn't understand why until I did it. Everything you're supposed to be looking at (AAs, etc.) is lit up at night, and when all around is dark, your eyes are automatically drawn to the lights. I saw details on BTMRR after dark that I never knew were there in the daytime.

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Originally Posted by socal05

Here's a "cool" suggestion. Why don't/didn't you make your own version of the "facts", written the way you think it should be done. That way everyone can read it and benefit. Seems it probably would have taken the same amount of time as the other posts you've made addressing the issue.

Just a suggestion. BTW - nobody is perfect.

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Bravo. The State of California, through CalOSHA, did a full investigation, proximate to the event, and did in fact find someone at fault. I listed that fact, as it states in the report, but was critized for not listing the 'context'.

Because this is a forum community, anyone is free to add additional facts as they see fit, or from their own personal knowledge (or otherwise). I don't see the need to put in a series of "fast fact" articles a 500 word discussion.

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Originally Posted by DarkRider

On the Fackler incident, his foot was caught between the train and the loading station while the train was pulling in. Not necessarily his fault, but maybe the adult he was riding with? What part of "keep your hands, arms, feet and legs inside the vehicle at all times" was not understood here? :judge:

Anyhow, love your posts, and I have a tip to add: Much as it's fun to ride in the afternoon because of the speed, riding after dark is also a very different experience. Friends used to tell me this and I didn't understand why until I did it. Everything you're supposed to be looking at (AAs, etc.) is lit up at night, and when all around is dark, your eyes are automatically drawn to the lights. I saw details on BTMRR after dark that I never knew were there in the daytime.

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True, and I actually prefer to ride this ride at night versus all other times. I rode it three times on Sunday, and I agree 100% with what you said regarding how it seems like a totally different ride.

Your posting regarding the five year old is also on point. At some point, an adult parent or supervisor has to realize that a five year old may not be cognizant of all the dangers involved in pushing or rushing towards a train that is fully loaded and taking off, or coming in and not quite stopped.

With millions of guests over the years, you would expect some incidents to happen, just as a matter of statistics.

Nonetheless, this incident in particular led Big Thunder Mountain RR to add the gates that were part of the refurb last year, to keep people back during loading and unloading and between trains. Probably a good call on Disney's part, now that this incident makes such thing happening again "foreseeable".

Excellent post! I didn't actually know most of the things contained here, so thank you for the information! :-)

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Originally Posted by Frogberto

Marcelo Torres was the person who bled to death after being struck by a train on Big Thunder.

I'm sure that SpeederScout is going to claim it was his fault, as five year olds are to blame also, on a ride where millions have ridden without injury.

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You know, I'm not exactly sure what your problem is as I've written nothing against the poster, but rather against the posts, as per MiceChat rules. (Can't exaclty say I've seen the same recently). However, as an attorney you certainly are using your skills at "spin".

In the case of the wayward foot, the attraction operated as designed; it was guest irresponsibility (either the child's or his gaurdian's) that caused the injury. In the other case, Mr. Torres was utterly not at fault; rather it was the culpability of park management at the time and their decisions that lead to the series of failures that caused his needless and tragic death.

As point of fact, those two accidents were radically different, which has been my point this entire time. But thanks for telling everyone what you're sure I'm going to claim in what I hope is your closing arguement against me.

By the way, the features you mention in the most recent refurb of the ride were not due to the "foot case". That accident occured because the kid decided to dangle his foot outside the car as his train pulled back into the station, causing it to be crushed between the two. In fact, the inserts that you've had to climb over the last couple of years in order to get in and out of your seats were the changes that resulted. If you'll notice, it's now virtually impossible to put your foot outside the vehicle.

And asking for clarification and context isn't "constructive"? Well, I guess nobody is perfect.

Didnt Marc Davis design a Attraction to replace the mine train before they went with BTMRR? Something about a cowboy town and indians? I think it was sposed to be a river bottom boat ride?

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Originally Posted by Redsix

Didnt Marc Davis design a Attraction to replace the mine train before they went with BTMRR? Something about a cowboy town and indians? I think it was sposed to be a river bottom boat ride?

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The showbuilding (Thunder Mesa) that included Western River Expedition, at least in its original WDW incarnation, also featured a roller coaster. Baxter did work on that coaster, which because Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.

Yes and no. The Western River Expedition was the Cowboy PoTC designed for WDW, but at one point they decided that maybe WRE could go into Disneyland instead.
So it was thought of for there but not designed for there.

^it sounded pretty cool. It must have been a lot of AA's. Did Baxter go with the rollar coaster to get more young kids to the park? Must have. I think that was about the time when Magic Mountain was really picking up a lot of attendence. A lot more teens were going for the coasters at that time.

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Originally Posted by Disney Wrassler

I thought rumor was that if you take anything out of Bodie, bad things would happen until the object was returned? Maybe that is what they say to get people to stop stealing.

Anyway, I really liked the fact about the conversations that can be overheard.

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well look @ the accident history....lol

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Originally Posted by Redsix

Did Baxter go with the rollar coaster to get more young kids to the park?

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No, Disney management went with BTM after they saw the attendance boost Space Mountain.

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Originally Posted by lazyboy97O

The showbuilding (Thunder Mesa) that included Western River Expedition, at least in its original WDW incarnation, also featured a roller coaster. Baxter did work on that coaster, which because Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.

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For a good read, check out this set of articles.
http://jimhillmedia.com/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=WRE

Could they still build this attraction at DLR? WRE would be a good attraction to FrontierLand. Would it not be out of great respect to Marc Davis to see this attraction built for the DLR? Yes this would be awesome!

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Originally Posted by Redsix

Could they still build this attraction at DLR? WRE would be a good attraction to FrontierLand. Would it not be out of great respect to Marc Davis to see this attraction built for the DLR? Yes this would be awesome!

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There's the big open space of Big Thunder Ranch, and it's possible that the backstage area behind the berm could be rearranged.
But then, if it's just going to be a flume ride through the old west, how different will it be from Splash? Maybe it could be different enough.
Plus, at the end of that JH story, he writes that a lot of the model has been destroyed or stolen. Perhaps it could be re-created from the memories of old Imagineers who had seen it.

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Originally Posted by sediment

There's the big open space of Big Thunder Ranch, and it's possible that the backstage area behind the berm could be rearranged.
But then, if it's just going to be a flume ride through the old west, how different will it be from Splash? Maybe it could be different enough.
Plus, at the end of that JH story, he writes that a lot of the model has been destroyed or stolen. Perhaps it could be re-created from the memories of old Imagineers who had seen it.

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If they are not going to bring back the FantasyLand theatre next year? There is even more room there. That is sad that the model has been destroyed or stolen. Is not Marc Davis's wife still alive. I understand she has a little Disneyana in her home. She could help? I still think it would be awesome to bring in!