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  1. #46

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    It would be cool...but without a movie tie in those bateaux rides with lots of AAs just don't have the "instant draw" factor that a thrill ride has.

  2. #47

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    They grease the tracks?


    I can't tell you how much I used to love the Mr. Lincoln ride. Oh how he'd bounce around. I believe it was the first ride to use the random drop sequence idea, albeit quite primitive, when you "jumped" out of the Presidential box and onto the stage of the Ford Theatre. And the clever way the imagineers had John Wilkes Booth playing Benjamin Franklin (one president shooting another, classic! Sly reference, of course to Gerald Ford "shooting" into the presidency when he accused Nixon of NSA wiretapping).


    (On a more serious note, your description of Mr. Torres' manner of death, as well as your choice to print the name of a cast member involved in a minor accident in a paragraph that details two very serious accidents, bothers me. Your posts tend to have lots of inaccuracies, which is fine, you're a fan, not an imagineer, but these facts don't reflect well on the state of Orange County jurisprudence.)
    So full of Disney Magic, my eyes are blue.

  3. #48

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by speederscout
    However, as an attorney you certainly are using your skills at "spin".

    In the case of the wayward foot, the attraction operated as designed; it was guest irresponsibility (either the child's or his gaurdian's) that caused the injury. In the other case, Mr. Torres was utterly not at fault; rather it was the culpability of park management at the time and their decisions that lead to the series of failures that caused his needless and tragic death.

    ...By the way, the features you mention in the most recent refurb of the ride were not due to the "foot case". That accident occured because the kid decided to dangle his foot outside the car as his train pulled back into the station, causing it to be crushed between the two. In fact, the inserts that you've had to climb over the last couple of years in order to get in and out of your seats were the changes that resulted. If you'll notice, it's now virtually impossible to put your foot outside the vehicle.

    And asking for clarification and context isn't "constructive"? Well, I guess nobody is perfect.
    "

    First, These 10 Things you didn't know...posts are extremely interesting to most newbees who welcome the opportunity to learn some trivia.

    Second, its hardly a "spin" to say official independent agencies who investigated certain deaths occuring at DL and DCA found the parks negligent in the way their rides operated. Whether the "attraction operated as designed" was not at issue rather, whether the "attraction operated as designed" was the proximate cause of an actual person's DEATH! Let's be realistic here, DL and DCA are great fun places to visit and enjoy with the entire family, but nonetheless they are not blameless nor free of liability if they cause for actual people die! Thank goodness changes have resulted from the investigations' findings to make these attractions safer.

  4. #49

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyboy97O
    The showbuilding (Thunder Mesa) that included Western River Expedition, at least in its original WDW incarnation, also featured a roller coaster. Baxter did work on that coaster, which because Big Thunder Mountain Railroad.
    I know it's been mentioned a few times already, but the JHM article that covers this is fascinating. The man does go on, but this is one that really benefits from some long-windedness. It's a fascinating saga, starting with the development of a second park idea in St. Louis (I lived there for many years - the Busch story is no exaggeration) and ending in the BTMRR we know today, with a very interesting subplot about why Pirates is so short at MK. He mentions that those who remember seeing models for the WRE attraction thought them spectacular. Check it out!

  5. #50

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by frogwife
    "First, These 10 Things you didn't know...posts are extremely interesting to most newbees who welcome the opportunity to learn some trivia.

    Second, its hardly a "spin" to say official independent agencies who investigated certain deaths occuring at DL and DCA found the parks negligent in the way their rides operated. Whether the "attraction operated as designed" was not at issue rather, whether the "attraction operated as designed" was the proximate cause of an actual person's DEATH! Let's be realistic here, DL and DCA are great fun places to visit and enjoy with the entire family, but nonetheless they are not blameless nor free of liability if they cause for actual people die! Thank goodness changes have resulted from the investigations' findings to make these attractions safer.
    I agree that these types of threads are interesting, AS I'VE REPEATEDLY STATED. Just as long as all the facts are actually factual. We're still waiting over in the 10 things about Space Mountian thread regarding the rockets/bobsleds.

    The "spin" comment was referencing his distorted and insensitive statements towards my supposed feelings about Mr. Torres death if you'd read it correctly; (one of the most hurtful, insensitive statements anyone has ever made about me, considering how I actually felt about that accident and everyone involved at the time).

    "whether the "attraction operated as designed" was the proximate cause of an actual person's DEATH!" um... the attraction did NOT operate as designed, hence the tragic death.

    As for your final point, what is your point?? No one here is denying those things, certainly not myself.

    "Can't we all just get along?"

  6. #51

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    3. The sun, which is at it's highest and hottest point at noon, heats and melts the grease on the tracks of the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to its thinnest point as the day wears on, and thus the train goes faster in the afternoon. The ride's average speed it about 30 MPH, but can reach speeds of up to 35 MPH, -- faster than Space Mountain. If you sit in the back of the train, the ride feels even faster!

    Not true. There is NO grease on the tracks if there was the wheels would just slip. The last thing you want is grease on the tracks. And heat makes metal expand which slows down the train.


    6. Listen to the safety spiel as you board your train... "Howdy, folks! Please keep your hands and arms inside the train, and remain seated at all times... 'cause this here's the wildest ride in the wilderness!" Does that voice sound familiar? If you have ever visited the great moments with Mr. Lincoln ride, it should. It is that of Dallas McKennon, who also provides the voice of Benjamin Franklin.

    ummmm there is no Ben F. in GMW Mr. L and it's not a ride.

    7. One item found in the ride is an engine used in the film "Hot Lead and Cold Feet" starring Don Knotts and Jim Dale, which was released about the same time the attraction opened.

    There are 2 of them. one in front and one in back.

  7. #52

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by atticbat
    Not true. There is NO grease on the tracks if there was the wheels would just slip. The last thing you want is grease on the tracks. And heat makes metal expand which slows down the train.

    ...ummmm there is no Ben F. in GMW Mr. L and it's not a ride.

    7. One item found in the ride is an engine used in the film "Hot Lead and Cold Feet" starring Don Knotts and Jim Dale, which was released about the same time the attraction opened.

    There are 2 of them. one in front and one in back.
    Here's my source for the lubricated track:

    http://www.disneyworldtrivia.com/tri...bigthunder.php

    Quote: "The sun, which is at it's highest and hottest point at noon, heats and melts the grease on the tracks of the Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to its thinnest point as the day wears on, and thus the train goes faster in the afternoon. The ride's average speed it about 30 MPH, but can reach speeds of up to 33 MPH, which is faster than Space Mountain! Be sure to sit in the back of the train if you want to the ride to feel even faster! "

    Almost all coasters use a heavy grade thick viscosity grease on either the wheels or the track. The last thing you want is bare steel metal on bare steel metal - you'd see sparks all over if that were the case, and the ride would wear and tear much faster.

    The train brakes (and avoids slipping) by use of rubber stop wheels that grip the area under the track.

    And you're right about Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln not being a ride, but there are several presidents that feature as part of the show, if you will, as well as adding Mr. Franklin.

    Thank you for the information confirming, or regarding, the movie "Hot Lead and Cold Feet".
    Last edited by RobotMirror; 05-21-2006 at 09:23 AM.

  8. #53

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    You're plagiari getting your information from a fan site and it's incorrect. The wheels on Big Thunder are polyurethane, like skate wheels. They don't get greased. How would a train ever make it up a hill or slow down if the track was greased? The only place grease is used in relation to the wheels is in the bearings. Read this informative article on CoasterQuest.com and Doc Krock's article on Mouseplanet.

    Secondly, Benjamin Franklin was never a president. No other presidents are featured in Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. The fan site from which you're lifting your info is a Disney World focused site, and the author you neglect to credit is referring to the American Adventure in Epcot. The author's name, by the way, is Lou Mongello. Look! I just noticed he's an attorney. Small world, isn't it. I doubt that he'd think it was cool that you cut and pasted paragraphs, verbatim, from his website.
    Last edited by Gn2Dlnd; 05-20-2006 at 11:43 PM.
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  9. #54

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    OK first off why are you posting in a DL thread about stuff in WDW? where ever your getting your info it is sooooooooo wrong it's laughable. NO coster in the world would ever allow grease on the track. Think hard about this, If there was grease on the track there would be this thick gooey mess along the whole track, which there isn't. And the smell of all that grease would be horrid. And as for your steel on steel would make sparks without grease...what about trains? They don't use grease. Coster wheels have not been metal since the Matterhorn was built. Which was the first of it's kind and which all steel costers are fashioned after.

    You think Ben F. was a pres? How old are you? Are you from the U.S.? EVEN if you did just cut&paste from another site ANYONE with half a brain would know that he wasn't. PLZ stop taking EVERYTHING you read on some geeks site as gospel, cause half the time they don't have a clue.
    Last edited by atticbat; 05-21-2006 at 02:16 AM.

  10. #55

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd
    You're plagiari getting your information from a fan site and it's incorrect. The wheels on Big Thunder are polyurethane, like skate wheels. They don't get greased. How would a train ever make it up a hill or slow down if the track was greased? The only place grease is used in relation to the wheels is in the bearings. Read this informative article on CoasterQuest.com and Doc Krock's article on Mouseplanet.

    Secondly, Benjamin Franklin was never a president. No other presidents are featured in Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln. The fan site from which you're lifting your info is a Disney World focused site, and the author you neglect to credit is referring to the American Adventure in Epcot. The author's name, by the way, is Lou Mongello. Look! I just noticed he's an attorney. Small world, isn't it. I doubt that he'd think it was cool that you cut and pasted paragraphs, verbatim, from his website.
    Thanks for your comments! As they say, "one quote is plaguarism, and more than one is research". The quote is certainly short enough to qualify under the fair use doctrine. You mention CoasterQuest.com, and they do mention that steel wheels are used, and have pictures of the steel wheels. (http://www.coasterquest.com/rehab3.htm)

    This would make sense, as steels is much, much more durable than polyurethane wheels.

    They also mention how bearing grease and outside temperature can make the train go faster, or slower, making the post correct as to the principle, but incorrect as to which "part" of the coaster causes this effect. (see http://www.coasterquest.com/gravity.htm), and quote: "the outside temperature has an empowering affect on a roller coaster's speed. ... When the bearing grease is new, it creates more friction, thus slowing down the train, and when it is cold outside this makes the new grease even stiffer."

    Since you've cited sources, I'll edit the post. Big Thunder Mountain RR, the subject of the post, is the same design in both Disneyland and WDW, is it not?

  11. #56

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by atticbat
    OK first off why are you posting in a DL thread about stuff in WDW? where ever your getting your info it is sooooooooo wrong it's laughable. NO coster in the world would ever allow grease on the track. Think hard about this, If there was grease on the track there would be this thick gooey mess along the whole track, which there isn't. And the smell of all that grease would be horrid. And as for your steel on steel would make sparks without grease...what about trains? They don't use grease. Coster wheels have not been metal since the Matterhorn was built. Which was the first of it's kind and which all steel costers are fashioned after.

    You think Ben F. was a pres? How old are you? Are you from the U.S.? EVEN if you did just cut&paste from another site ANYONE with half a brain would know that he wasn't. PLZ stop taking EVERYTHING you read on some geeks site as gospel, cause half the time they don't have a clue.
    Atticbat, thanks for your comments. As mentioned in the post above, coasters DO in fact use steel wheels, which give great strength for the weight.

    Keep in mind the moderator's rules and TOS for the site. Attack the posting, but never the poster.

    I disagree that coaster wheels have never been steel since the matterhorn. Some basic research, like at (http://www.coasterquest.com/rehab3.htm), says otherwise.

  12. #57

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogberto
    Atticbat, thanks for your comments. As mentioned in the post above, coasters DO in fact use steel wheels, which give great strength for the weight.

    Keep in mind the moderator's rules and TOS for the site. Attack the posting, but never the poster.

    I disagree that coaster wheels have never been steel since the matterhorn. Some basic research, like at (http://www.coasterquest.com/rehab3.htm), says otherwise.
    Pay better attention to your research: the web page you reference clearly states that the steel wheels to which you refer are from a WOODEN COASTER. Steel coasters all use a very high-tech version of the same type of wheels used on roller skates and have ever since 1959, the year Matterhorn was built, as mentioned above.

  13. #58

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    OK, you believe what you want. But the rest of us well go on knowing what the real facts are.

  14. #59

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    Quote Originally Posted by atticbat
    OK first off why are you posting in a DL thread about stuff in WDW? where ever your getting your info it is sooooooooo wrong it's laughable. NO coster in the world would ever allow grease on the track. Think hard about this, If there was grease on the track there would be this thick gooey mess along the whole track, which there isn't. And the smell of all that grease would be horrid. And as for your steel on steel would make sparks without grease...what about trains? They don't use grease. Coster wheels have not been metal since the Matterhorn was built. Which was the first of it's kind and which all steel costers are fashioned after.

    You think Ben F. was a pres? How old are you? Are you from the U.S.? EVEN if you did just cut&paste from another site ANYONE with half a brain would know that he wasn't. PLZ stop taking EVERYTHING you read on some geeks site as gospel, cause half the time they don't have a clue.
    Wonderful tone for this post. Is the moderator watching this thread? Seems it's getting a bit personal.

    And for someone so high and mighty Atticbat, you should learn how to use a comma. How old are you? Or should I say: HOW old R u?

  15. #60

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    Re: Ten things you MAY not know about Big Thunder Mountain Railroad...

    cool stuff, my favorite part isthe pools that change color, so cool looking!

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