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  1. #31

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRider
    It means that it's not all that cool to rag on entire cultural groups because certain members of it might be offended by something like this. I am 1/4 Shoshone, and I am not all that offended by it. Certainly I'm bothered more by the Indians in Peter Pan and PPF. Native Americans are not saints, for whoever made the history book comment. No cultural group can claim to be. But complaining about the "PC Police" is a symptom of backlash that can smack of "Can't I be just a little racist?" If someone's offended (and please understand that I'm not), let it be, say what you will, whatever. But please don't trivialize the quest for equality and dignity by an entire culture because a few of them may find something offensive.

    That's what I meant. Rant over.
    So just because a few people get offended the millions of other people have to suffer and live in a dull world? Oh and for the record it is not racist it is history. As I said we should just burn the history books because a few people get offended.

    I am half persian and there is some joke every day about the race yet I think it is still funny. Why cant people just live with it?

  2. #32

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    So just because a few people get offended the millions of other people have to suffer and live in a dull world? Oh and for the record it is not racist it is history. As I said we should just burn the history books because a few people get offended.


    That's not what he said at all.

    DarkRider... I think you explained your point excellently, and fairly.

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  3. #33

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Sure it is. He claims that since we always complain about everything being politically correct it means that we are asking to be a "little racist." He may not be offended by it himself but he certainly supports minorities crying out for removal of these objects which is what ruins this country to the very foundation. It is total BS because there is nothing "racist" about it. Facts are facts and that is what Indians did back during those times.
    Last edited by Disneyfreak; 05-31-2006 at 03:07 PM.

  4. #34

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by a_hyperbole


    That's not what he said at all.

    DarkRider... I think you explained your point excellently, and fairly.
    I second that.

  5. #35

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    So just because a few people get offended the millions of other people have to suffer and live in a dull world?
    Ignoring for a moment that no one's actually "suffering" by any stretch of the imagination here, that's not what I'm saying at all. All I'm saying is that if the fact that a few people do find it offensive, it should not be used to trivialize the thoughts of an entire group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    As I said we should just burn the history books because a few people get offended.
    As I said, I'm not offended by the burning shack. I can understand where someone might be (though I'd disagree for the reason you say), but I'm not. But by your logic, if "history" can be included in entertainment, we should include a few nods to Nazi war atrocities in the German pavilion at Epcot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    I am half persian and there is some joke every day about the race yet I think it is still funny.
    Good for you, although I wonder if that's 100% true, deep-down. I am pretty thick-skinned about it myself (I think this is the fourth time in two posts I've said that the burning shack doesn't offend me). I don't look Native American at all, which makes it amazingly easy to overhear comments. But hypothetically speaking, if someone made a joke about you that you didtake offense to, would you think it kind of me to say that all Persians are too sensitive, and that Persian groups should just keep to themselves so we could all enjoy the joke?

  6. #36

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    He may not be offended by it himself but he certainly supports minorities crying out for removal of these objects which is what ruins this country to the very foundation.
    Minorities crying out about whatever they want to is called free speech, and THAT is the very foundation of this country.


    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    Facts are facts and that is what Indians did back during those times.
    Wow... now THAT is racist! Native Americans certainly plenty of wrong things back in the day... but nothing compared to what settlers did to them. I can suggest a few books so you can get your "facts" straight.

    Either way, I don't think a guy with arrows sticking out of his back was at all appropriate for a Disney park... regardless of how the arrows came to be in his back.

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  7. #37

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    I liked the burning cabin at DL. I was always amazed whenever we'd take the train or Mark Twain and see it. I do disagree with the whole settler with the arrow...it's a children's park and I think that's just a bit much. I honestly don't remember anything about Indians setting the fire on the train, but it could just be that I plain don't remember. I was shocked to see the picture of the guy with the arrow in him, especially when later, if I remember correctly, you see an Indian on a horse..or standing there...who is friendly. Anyways...just my thoughts.
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  8. #38

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRider
    Ignoring for a moment that no one's actually "suffering" by any stretch of the imagination here, that's not what I'm saying at all. All I'm saying is that if the fact that a few people do find it offensive, it should not be used to trivialize the thoughts of an entire group.
    By that logic everything would have to be sterilized because there will ALWAYS be people offended by something. If trivializing something will make millions of people happy vs a few people unhappy I am all for it. Life is not fair.


    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRider
    As I said, I'm not offended by the burning shack. I can understand where someone might be (though I'd disagree for the reason you say), but I'm not. But by your logic, if "history" can be included in entertainment, we should include a few nods to Nazi war atrocities in the German pavilion at Epcot.
    There is a difference between Indians trying to fight with arrows and Nazi's using machine guns and evil warfare exterminating people in gas chambers. You tell me which is worse, a burning house or a gas chamber?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkRider
    Good for you, although I wonder if that's 100% true, deep-down. I am pretty thick-skinned about it myself (I think this is the fourth time in two posts I've said that the burning shack doesn't offend me). I don't look Native American at all, which makes it amazingly easy to overhear comments. But hypothetically speaking, if someone made a joke about you that you didtake offense to, would you think it kind of me to say that all Persians are too sensitive, and that Persian groups should just keep to themselves so we could all enjoy the joke?
    It is 200% true. I am not offended in the least and actually find it quite amusing when people make jokes. I do not support defenders of people who try to cover up the truth for all races and cultures. There is always something people would love to exploit for each race and I don't find that wrong at all because there is something wrong with everyone. To hide the truth is like living in a dream world. Personally if you said something offensive I would just shrug it off and that is a true quality that is rare to find because frankly I don’t care what anyone else would think. That is the attitude people need to acquire.


    Quote Originally Posted by a_hyperbole
    Minorities crying out about whatever they want to is called free speech, and THAT is the very foundation of this country.
    Yeah and you can see where that is taking us. Down the toilet. Other countries run around us in circles because everything has to be sterilized because one little group didn't like something. Free speech only works when the people have moral judgement.

    Quote Originally Posted by a_hyperbole
    Wow... now THAT is racist! Native Americans certainly plenty of wrong things back in the day... but nothing compared to what settlers did to them. I can suggest a few books so you can get your "facts" straight.
    Oh I am a racist now for stating a fact?
    Perhaps you should have tried getting better professors when it came to telling the truth instead of teaching a sugarcoated version. Indians did what they did to survive and keep their land, nothing more nothing less.

    So is it racist to say that the Europeans coming over were shooting the Indians?


    Quote Originally Posted by a_hyperbole
    Either way, I don't think a guy with arrows sticking out of his back was at all appropriate for a Disney park... regardless of how the arrows came to be in his back.
    I never disagreed with that. The only thing I disagree is with them taking out the fire.




    Last edited by Disneyfreak; 05-31-2006 at 04:53 PM.

  9. #39

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    By that logic everything would have to be sterilized because there will ALWAYS be people offended by something. If trivializing something will make millions of people vs a few people happy I am all for it. Life is not fair.



    There is a difference between Indians trying to fight with arrows and Nazi's using machine guns and evil warfare exterminating people in gas chambers.


    It is 200% true. I am not offended in the least and actually find it quite amusing when people make jokes. I do not support defenders of people who try to cover up the truth for all races and cultures. There is always something people would love to exploit for each race and I don't find that wrong at all because there is something wrong with everyone. To hide the truth is like living in a dream world. Personally if you said something offensive I would just shrug it off and that is a true quality that is rare to find because frankly I don’t care what anyone else would think. That is the attitude people need to acquire.




    Perhaps you should of tried getting better professors when it came to telling the truth instead of a sugarcoated version. Indians did what they did to survive and keep their land, nothing more nothing less.

    Either way, I don't think a guy with arrows sticking out of his back was at all appropriate for a Disney park... regardless of how the arrows came to be in his back.
    So is it racist to say that the europeans coming over were shooting the indians?

    [/quote]

    No offense, but excuse me (and a_hyperbole). She was exactly right on the money. The Indians did what they had to do to survive.

    The damn settlers took over their land, yes THEIR land.

    Some were killed, beaten, even burned to death by colonists - yes, burned. They even fought in the Civil War to he.lp out the war effort.

    Natives were just trying to save what they thought was theirs. a_hyperbole was not sugarcoating it anyway whatsoever.

    And don't question me on this, I just finished two years of social studies on the subject.

  10. #40

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    For a few years, before it stopped burning altogether, the narration on the Mark Twain was changed to blame the fire on “careless settlers”.
    "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion. " -George Washington

  11. #41

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Disney Dreamer
    No offense, but excuse me (and a_hyperbole). She was exactly right on the money. The Indians did what they had to do to survive.

    The damn settlers took over their land, yes THEIR land.

    Some were killed, beaten, even burned to death by colonists - yes, burned. They even fought in the Civil War to he.lp out the war effort.

    Natives were just trying to save what they thought was theirs. a_hyperbole was not sugarcoating it anyway whatsoever.

    And don't question me on this, I just finished two years of social studies on the subject.
    I never disagreed with a word of what you just said. As a matter a fact read what I put in my paragraph again and you will see that I said the same exact thing. Although the same could be said for what the Indians did to the colonists trying to protect themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    Perhaps you should have tried getting better professors when it came to telling the truth instead of teaching a sugarcoated version. Indians did what they did to survive and keep their land, nothing more nothing less.
    You obviously read the sugar coated part yet totally missed the line below it. Why don't you get the facts straight before criticizing.

    Quote Originally Posted by a_hyperbole

    Wow... now THAT is racist! Native Americans certainly plenty of wrong things back in the day... but nothing compared to what settlers did to them. I can suggest a few books so you can get your "facts" straight.
    She suggested right here that the Europeans were worse than the Indians. The Indians did just as much to the settlers as represented by the burning cabin. If anything Hyperbole is the one who needs to go read a few history books.
    Last edited by Disneyfreak; 05-31-2006 at 04:12 PM.

  12. #42

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Epcot doesn't need Nazis in a German pavilion because it's themed to a current idealized vacation experience, which could easily not include Nazis. The Rivers of America is themed to the "Hard facts which made America" and rightly should include some drama. This area originally included both peaceful AND dangerous Indians. Now a child seeing the peaceful Indians and then seeing the dead settler with arrows out his back might try to find out the history. But today, we don't want anyone asking questions. The extent of learning today is limited to how to buy plush toys, eat churros, and get really fat.

    Now if you wanted to get really politically correct, plush toys don't have many adventures. It's a complete miss-representation and must be stopped!

  13. #43

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lore
    Epcot doesn't need Nazis in a German pavilion because it's themed to a current idealized vacation experience, which could easily not include Nazis. The Rivers of America is themed to the "Hard facts which made America" and rightly should include some drama. This area originally included both peaceful AND dangerous Indians. Now a child seeing the peaceful Indians and then seeing the dead settler with arrows out his back might try to find out the history. But today, we don't want anyone asking questions. The extent of learning today is limited to how to buy plush toys, eat churros, and get really fat.

    Now if you wanted to get really politically correct, plush toys don't have many adventures. It's a complete miss-representation and must be stopped!
    Thank you Lore for animating what I am trying to say here.

  14. #44

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by jwbear
    For a few years, before it stopped burning altogether, the narration on the Mark Twain was changed to blame the fire on “careless settlers”.
    Yeah, now I don't have my 6-CD set with me right now...but does the Riverboat ridethrough on the Musical History blame settlers or Indians? Which version made it on?

  15. #45

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    Re: TSI's Burning Cabin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disneyfreak
    He suggested right here that the Europeans were worse than the Indians. The Indians did just as much to the settlers as represented by the burning cabin. If anything Hyperbole is the one who needs to go read a few history books.
    I'm not a he. And I already have a degree in history, thank you.

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