The Goat Trick Revealed: Everything you wanted to know. (photo heavy)

[Trekkie Dad]

I've been a big fan of the goat trick ever since I learned of it. How come no one has said, "Ahh... the goat trick!"?

[keith - SuPeR K!]

the goat trick doesn't work for me

[sediment]

I just have this crazy picture of FPM running with TJL in front of an angry torch mob.

love the Goat photos! nice job! That is the beauty of digital.

I thought he figured this out in the "Why your favorite DL ride sucks, thread."

[almandot]

Gotta add video of the goat trick while we're at it :P
goattrick.mp4

[thejoshualee]

your explaination makes no sense to me..

'change a lateral g-force into a horizontal one' ??

lateral is left to right already.. how do you change that to 'horizontal?'

And g-force is an accelleration.. not speed. Where a difference in speed leads to higher g-forces is in turns. A turn is actually an acceleration (you are actually accelerating sideways) so that is why turning harder or making the same turn, but at a faster speed leads to higher forces 'pushing' you away from the turn. (what you would experience as a 'postive G force' away from the turn)

Not being in DL.. I don't know this section.. but I assume its right after a drop.. so the front is probably being held up waiting for the rear of the train to clear the peak of the drop.. then once over.. the front is 'pushed' and the rear gets a more sudden acceleration as its 'pulled' quickly down the hill.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you turn your body toward the inside of the turn, looking at the goat, then your body experiences a gravitational force (g-force is the gravitational force, not speed. A G-force of 5 means that your gravitational pull is five times the normal. While speed is what creates this phenomonom in roller coasters, it's not a unit of acceleration) that pushes you back rather than to the side. so instead of a side to side (lateral) g-force feel, you get a horizontal g-force feel (pushing you backwards)... Am I still being vauge?

And it's not just a drop, it's a banked turn drop. The goat is just the focal point that happens to be placed the prime spot to keep your head turned at the opposite direction that the original force intended for you to go. I'm not a scientist though, so... ya know...

[flynnibus]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you turn your body toward the inside of the turn, looking at the goat, then your body experiences a gravitational force (g-force is the gravitational force, not speed. A G-force of 5 means that your gravitational pull is five times the normal. While speed is what creates this phenomonom in roller coasters, it's not a unit of acceleration) that pushes you back rather than to the side.

uhh.. no.

G-Forces have nothing to do with speed.. they have to do with ACCELERATION.

Thats why you can sit in a plane at 400knots and feel like you are sitting still. Its the ACCELERATION (a change in your velocity vector) that causes "G Forces" which is really just the force your body feels as its accelerated in a direction. "G Forces" are just a slang to compare how much force you are feeling compared to the normal force you feel from the Earth's gravity. The gravatational force never changes. You can experience accelerations in any direction tho (which is why you can be pushed back in your seat, to the side, etc..)

While speed is what creates this phenomonom in roller coasters, it's not a unit of acceleration) that pushes you back rather than to the side.

Speed doesn't cause the G-Forces.. its changes in speed or direction. The faster you are going when you change direction.. the faster the change occurs.. hence the ACCELERATION in that direction is faster. The faster the Acceleration.. the greater the force required.. (Newton's Second law) and because of force applied to make the turn.. the greater the force you feel in the opposite direction (Newton's Third Law)

This is HS Physics stuff

What lay people don't understand usually is that a turn is actually an acceleration.. even if your actual speed doesn't change. Why? Because your velocity vector (which consists of speed AND direction) changes.

This is what causes the G Forces in the centrifuge in Mission Space.. and why they can maintain a specific G Force on you for a duration of time. Even with a constant speed of the Centrifuge, your body is still feeling an acceleration.

Why does going around the same turn push on you harder the faster you go? Because you changed direction faster the faster you go around the curve. Which is why also going 30mph down a straight piece of track will give you the same identical 'push you backwards' feeling as going 60mph. As long as you are not accelerating.. you only feel the normal gravatational force of the earth.. you will not feel any 'push you back in your seat' (except for air resistance pushing on you). But if you CHANGE your speed dramatically OR direction.. you'll feel those forces.

[Mac Daddy]

This is why I love this forum.

Before Micechat, I would have thought "the goat trick" was something you would find on Hollywood Boulevard.

Actually, just off of Hollywood Boulevard, East of Gower.....

Not that I would know, of course. :

[Hyperbole]

uhh.. no.

G-Forces have nothing to do with speed.. they have to do with ACCELERATION.

Thats why you can sit in a plane at 400knots and feel like you are sitting still. Its the ACCELERATION (a change in your velocity vector) that causes "G Forces" which is really just the force your body feels as its accelerated in a direction. "G Forces" are just a slang to compare how much force you are feeling compared to the normal force you feel from the Earth's gravity. The gravatational force never changes. You can experience accelerations in any direction tho (which is why you can be pushed back in your seat, to the side, etc..)


Speed doesn't cause the G-Forces.. its changes in speed or direction. The faster you are going when you change direction.. the faster the change occurs.. hence the ACCELERATION in that direction is faster. The faster the Acceleration.. the greater the force required.. (Newton's Second law) and because of force applied to make the turn.. the greater the force you feel in the opposite direction (Newton's Third Law)

This is HS Physics stuff

What lay people don't understand usually is that a turn is actually an acceleration.. even if your actual speed doesn't change. Why? Because your velocity vector (which consists of speed AND direction) changes.

This is what causes the G Forces in the centrifuge in Mission Space.. and why they can maintain a specific G Force on you for a duration of time. Even with a constant speed of the Centrifuge, your body is still feeling an acceleration.

Why does going around the same turn push on you harder the faster you go? Because you changed direction faster the faster you go around the curve. Which is why also going 30mph down a straight piece of track will give you the same identical 'push you backwards' feeling as going 60mph. As long as you are not accelerating.. you only feel the normal gravatational force of the earth.. you will not feel any 'push you back in your seat' (except for air resistance pushing on you). But if you CHANGE your speed dramatically OR direction.. you'll feel those forces.

Man, you just totally killed my Goat Trick buzz. Way to go.

[Athlonacon]

uhh.. no.

G-Forces have nothing to do with speed.. they have to do with ACCELERATION.

Thats why you can sit in a plane at 400knots and feel like you are sitting still. Its the ACCELERATION (a change in your velocity vector) that causes "G Forces" which is really just the force your body feels as its accelerated in a direction. "G Forces" are just a slang to compare how much force you are feeling compared to the normal force you feel from the Earth's gravity. The gravatational force never changes. You can experience accelerations in any direction tho (which is why you can be pushed back in your seat, to the side, etc..)


Speed doesn't cause the G-Forces.. its changes in speed or direction. The faster you are going when you change direction.. the faster the change occurs.. hence the ACCELERATION in that direction is faster. The faster the Acceleration.. the greater the force required.. (Newton's Second law) and because of force applied to make the turn.. the greater the force you feel in the opposite direction (Newton's Third Law)

This is HS Physics stuff

What lay people don't understand usually is that a turn is actually an acceleration.. even if your actual speed doesn't change. Why? Because your velocity vector (which consists of speed AND direction) changes.

This is what causes the G Forces in the centrifuge in Mission Space.. and why they can maintain a specific G Force on you for a duration of time. Even with a constant speed of the Centrifuge, your body is still feeling an acceleration.

Why does going around the same turn push on you harder the faster you go? Because you changed direction faster the faster you go around the curve. Which is why also going 30mph down a straight piece of track will give you the same identical 'push you backwards' feeling as going 60mph. As long as you are not accelerating.. you only feel the normal gravatational force of the earth.. you will not feel any 'push you back in your seat' (except for air resistance pushing on you). But if you CHANGE your speed dramatically OR direction.. you'll feel those forces.

Wow, I can't believe with this seeming wealth of knowledge flynnibus didn't distinguish the difference between a "G" and a "g". You'd think with all this knowledge, he would've authoritatively corrected the original poster by lambasting him with something like "G" is the gravitational constant, you should've use "g" which is a measurement of acceleration.

And on a side note, thank you thejoshualee for your post. It was very interesting. And please don't feel like you have to defend it against anyone, most of us realize it's a fun trick, not a thesis on physical science, lol.

Doesn't feel too good when someone uses corrections to condescend another.

[Athlonacon]

On the physics note, anyone that needs to see g forces and interia in action needs to blast off from a dead-stop in an American rear-wheel drive V8 (or V10 as in the case of the Viper). Interia is the resistance to movement so when you blast off from 0-60 in 4 seconds, you're body is still sitting at that red light...it's the driver's seat that is now moving at 60 MPH that blows by you which feels like pushing, even though it is not...it's simply the resistance of your body to the sudden acceleration. On the same token, when you're going 60 MPH and suddenly brake (or crash) your body, resisting a change in motion, is still traveling 60 MPH even though the car has stopped. The point is nothing is pushing you during g forces. It's simply your body moving (or not moving) relative to a stopped or moving object that gives the sensation of pushing. Inertia is why you feel the g forces you feel and the reason why you don't feel anything travelling at a steady 60 MPH, because your interia is the same as the car's.

I just wanted to clear that up since physics somehow got involved in this thread.

[writerevie]

What does the goat trick do to you? I read through the entire thread, and I know how to do it, and will try it when I go there in August, but what does it do to you? Does it make you nauseous? Or makes you think you're flying? Or something else special?

[almandot]

What does the goat trick do to you? I read through the entire thread, and I know how to do it, and will try it when I go there in August, but what does it do to you? Does it make you nauseous? Or makes you think you're flying? Or something else special?

If you're sitting on the right side of the car and shifted towards the goat staring right at it, after the drop and turn you will be sitting on the left side of the car.

[Schmielsen]

What does the goat trick do to you? I read through the entire thread, and I know how to do it, and will try it when I go there in August, but what does it do to you? Does it make you nauseous? Or makes you think you're flying? Or something else special?

It makes me nauseous. The same thing happens when I look at Mickey's head while traveling through the loop on the roller coaster at DCA.

[writerevie]

If you're sitting on the right side of the car and shifted towards the goat staring right at it, after the drop and turn you will be sitting on the left side of the car.

So I would be sitting on the left side of the car even if someone else is sitting there? So that poor person would be squished against the side of the car, in between me and the seat?

Schmielsen...hm....if there's a chance of nausea, I may not want to try this trick after all because I'm planning on eating churros and churros all day long....

[flynnibus]

[quote=Athlonacon]Wow, I can't believe with this seeming wealth of knowledge flynnibus didn't distinguish the difference between a "G" and a "g".

Doesn't feel too good when someone uses corrections to condescend another.

Its not condesecending.. its correcting.

You'd think with all this knowledge, he would've authoritatively corrected the original poster by lambasting him with something like "G" is the gravitational constant, you should've use "g" which is a measurement of acceleration.

First off.. the web isn't the place to nitpick spelling or typos.. so why bother? second.. 'g-force' is more slang then anything. Its not a SI unit of measure so the distinction between the G constant and 'g-force' I could really care less about.

The reason I brought it up was because the OP confused speed with acceleration.

And if any of this is 'thesis' material.. please go back to school.