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  1. #1

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    DCA jealous of WDSP?

    So I was reading the latest column by Peter Bell on Mice Age (http://www.miceage.com/guest/gu061306a.htm), and I was amazed to hear the details of the placemaking project that has been underway at WDSP.

    They're well on their way to getting 2 new E-tickets, a few other attractions, and a whole lot of re-theming to make their park more cohesive and enjoyable. So far, placemaking at DCA has resulted in one decent D-ticket ride and a new fountain. Whooptie-doo.

    So I want to know: Why have the brakes been put on all placemaking ventures here in California, while Paris sees a placemaking renaissance? I understand from Al's articles that the new creative forces at WDI have brought placemaking to a tentative halt while the entire direction for DCA is being reconsidered, but I'm wondering why they didn't feel the need to do this with WDSP as well? Is it because DCA is more important due to its proximity to the original? Do they have something totally spectacular in mind for DCA that will involve billions of dollars and a fleet of bulldozers? Or is WDSP just so much worse than DCA that it needed a facelift that much more urgently?

    I'm going to be mighty upset if we have to wait and wait for the serious improvements that DCA needs, and then be underwhelmed by them because they weren't anything more than a big (placemaking-style) band-aid fix.
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  2. #2

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Well, I think that since Lasseter is at the helm, and possibly has more pull than anyone before (since Iger seems more than happy to shell out money now, especially in regards to anything Pixar), maybe something drastic IS being considered for California Adventure, especially since, arguably, the conversion from California to something like, oh, a park devoted to the entire nation would be a relatively simple one. Or perhaps the change would be even more drastic. Or maybe, just maybe, while the placemaking projects sound like they would be going a LONG way to help, an increased focus on a combination of STELLAR attractions and the placemaking remodels is being considered and fully exploited.

  3. #3

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Twist, I hope what you write is true.

    In addition, I would think that the *perception* was that WDSP was *really* broken.
    (in fact to the point of "embarrassment"). DCA has issues, but I think the magnitude
    of problem *perceived* was completely different. And I think the gate receipts
    reflected it.

    Finally, WDSP already has a central theme (and a proven model of MGM) to build
    around. My understanding/rumors I've heard is that DCA is going to get a major
    "rethink" which takes major work/time/effort.

  4. #4

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    yeah.. WDSP needed help and FAST! If you thought DCA was cheaply made.. man were you wrong! WDSP was a joke! What were they thinking?

    "Lets put a bunch of plain looking buildings with nothing in side of them, people will pay us for that right?"

    DCA is a "dream come true" compaired to WDSP.




  5. #5

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Yup, 9 attractions. No E- (or D- IMHO) class. And really cheap looking buildings. Supposed to be a modern studio so minimal theming.

  6. #6

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    And what's NOT to love about that layout [/sarcasm]

  7. #7

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Sorry, but I think it would be criminal to destroy the murals at DCAs front gate and the ONLY cool thing about the monorail right now is the slide over the faux Golden Gate and into the GCH.

    Who cares what Paris gets. I mean don't they desrve a little plusing? After all haven't they been living with an inferior park for a lot longer than you DCA haters have had to put up with the finest land added to Disneyland in 50 years.
    IMO - YMMV - FYIGM


  8. #8

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twist_of_Fate
    Well, I think that since Lasseter is at the helm, and possibly has more pull than anyone before (since Iger seems more than happy to shell out money now, especially in regards to anything Pixar), maybe something drastic IS being considered for California Adventure, especially since, arguably, the conversion from California to something like, oh, a park devoted to the entire nation would be a relatively simple one. Or perhaps the change would be even more drastic. Or maybe, just maybe, while the placemaking projects sound like they would be going a LONG way to help, an increased focus on a combination of STELLAR attractions and the placemaking remodels is being considered and fully exploited.
    No, that would be too hard. Disney should stick with the California theme.

    California is by far one of the neatest and most diverse states out there. It was all in poor execution, NOT theme.

  9. #9

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzmati
    Sorry, but I think it would be criminal to destroy the murals at DCAs front gate and the ONLY cool thing about the monorail right now is the slide over the faux Golden Gate and into the GCH.

    Who cares what Paris gets. I mean don't they desrve a little plusing? After all haven't they been living with an inferior park for a lot longer than you DCA haters have had to put up with the finest land added to Disneyland in 50 years.
    Paris Studios has fewer attractions than DCA, and ToT is far enough along, that you certainly wouldn't want to put the brakes on it. So, yes! By all means get more attractions built over there. But DCA is different. If you are going to re-theme and/or redesign a good portion of the park, that's something that needs long range planning, and making sure there are no do-overs of the do-over.

    Not sure what Uzmai was trying to say in the 2nd paragraph. There have been 3 lands added to DL in it's 50 years. New Orleans Square, Critter Country (Bear Country), and Toontown. I would consider New Orleans Square the finest land added to Disneyland in 50 years. Not sure what that has to do with DCA, other than DCA Desperately needs a New Orleans style area, and a couple of E-Tickets with the longevity and appeal that Pirates and the Haunted Mansion have.

  10. #10

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    I've said it before, I'll say it again.

    DCA merely lacks creativity, the project actually cost a decent amount of money. On the other hand, WDSP has all sorts of room for creativity but no budget to make it with.

  11. #11

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin
    Not sure what Uzmai was trying to say in the 2nd paragraph. There have been 3 lands added to DL in it's 50 years. New Orleans Square, Critter Country (Bear Country), and Toontown. I would consider New Orleans Square the finest land added to Disneyland in 50 years. Not sure what that has to do with DCA, other than DCA Desperately needs a New Orleans style area, and a couple of E-Tickets with the longevity and appeal that Pirates and the Haunted Mansion have.
    Just a random thought, but does anyone think that the cannery row/wharf section of the park (DCA) could easily be transformed into an NOS equivalent? As it was originally designed, it was essentially a massive food court and gave a few tours of said food court (who ever thought that showing us how tortillas are made could count as an attraction worthy to be put on the park map?)

    However, there have been rumors of an Incredibles E-ticket being placed here, one that would use state of the art technology (as was the case for both PoTC and HM when they first opened, both in terms of the show/AAs, and in terms of the operation of the rides, large flume type and omnimover).

    There is also pleanty of room for expansion in this "land", since it boarders the Timon parking lot. The current food court locations (many of which are never open any more anyways) can easily be made into attraction facades/entrances (such as it is rumored for Maliburritos to become facade for Midway Madness).

    With the proper planning, they can build a ride that works the same basic way that Pirates does, sending the guests underground (ie under the timon lot) in boats, vehicles, something else (maybe journey to the center of the earth with an earthquake tie-in?), and thus leave the ground level of timon lot for incredibles or other attractions, so that you have multiple attractions taking up the land that would normally be reserved only for one ride, if that makes sense.

    The land and its scenery itself already hold potential to evoke the same kind of intricate themeing and detail that NOS has. Cannery Row, like New Orleans, is close to the water, so the idea of a water ride, or shipping lanes bringing colorful characters ashore is an absolute possibility, and for anyone who has read steinbecks "cannery row" you already know that great stories can be told using this evokative setting. A little more building upon itself, and you could have a small maze of buildings like you do in NOS, where it seems like you're finding something new at every turn, and thus feeling as if you've discovered this secluded area all on your own, and this quaint little out of the way shop you've found seems to be made just for you.

    long story short, cannery row/wharf area definitely has potential to become very NOS-esque
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  12. #12

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin
    Not sure what Uzmai was trying to say in the 2nd paragraph. There have been 3 lands added to DL in it's 50 years. New Orleans Square, Critter Country (Bear Country), and Toontown. I would consider New Orleans Square the finest land added to Disneyland in 50 years. Not sure what that has to do with DCA, other than DCA Desperately needs a New Orleans style area, and a couple of E-Tickets with the longevity and appeal that Pirates and the Haunted Mansion have.

    I don't see or experience DCA as a separate park from DL. My mind refuses to see them as anything but one park at 1313 South Harbor Blvd. Maybe it's the AP and park hopping, maybe it's because both parks are smaller and DCA at this point in time hardly seems like a Disney "Park" on it's own. Just too small (and before some wizearse drones in with "It's got more space than DL" what I'm talking about is USED space plus attractions)


    So I tend to see DCA as a new land at DL, and it's hands down my favorite one. Sure it's separated from the rest of the park but nothing stops me from walking across the the entrance plaza all day long so it's all the same place to me. I actually have gotten off the Matterhorn traipsed across to California Screamin' then right back over to Space Mountain. Sure maybe one day DCA will grow up and be a destination of it's own but right now I don't think anyone would call it that. It sure ain't the "WESTCOT CENTER" so many people apparently thought it was going to be, which I think is the actual source of so much apathy towards DCA. It ain't a redo of Florida.

    As for Critter Country....I prefer GRR over Splash Mountain's long lines and musty smelling show building, Pooh doesn't really do it for me and I can get Tiger butter in DCA. So unless someone in our party just HAS TO ride Splash Mountain we stay don't venture into Stroller County very often. I miss the Country Bears....put 'em in DCA. They fit the theme of Grizzly Peak anyway.

    NOS is wonderful, but I've been riding the HM and PotC all my life, I doubt even the extensive refurbish PotC gets will stay fresh and new for more than a few rides (for me that is), then PotC will go back to being what it's always been for our family. Fun if the lines isn't too long, a great place to escape summer heat if the line isn't tooooooo long. But essentially the same old ride I've been one hundreds of times before. I'll willingly say I could be wrong about that but somehow I doubt it, afterall the HM Nightmare Before Xma$ overlay got old fast for me and I often would rather have no XMA$ overlay on the HM at all.

    I was THRILLED to see the new effects in the attic of HM. I spotted them in a second and was unaware they were even doing anything to it so it was cool, but now it's just another scene on an old adventure I've taken many times.

    Toontown.....Meh! Despite being so steeped in Disney history and characters Toontown feels least Disneyland of all to me. But you don't see me calling for it's destruction.

    So yes, NOS is a wonderful but all it's got on DCA is time for the landscaping to grow in and people to become very attached to it. All I'm asking for is that folks give DCA some time to grow before they call for "Bulldozing Paradise Pier"...yanno?

    As for DLP, I don't care what they get. I wouldn't go unless you gave me the trip, maybe not even then. I still don't even think there should be a DLP but there it is so we might as well have it near par to the rest of the parks, no?
    IMO - YMMV - FYIGM


  13. #13

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uzmati

    I don't see or experience DCA as a separate park from DL. My mind refuses to see them as anything but one park at 1313 South Harbor Blvd. Maybe it's the AP and park hopping, maybe it's because both parks are smaller and DCA at this point in time hardly seems like a Disney "Park" on it's own. Just too small (and before some wizearse drones in with "It's got more space than DL" what I'm talking about is USED space plus attractions)


    So I tend to see DCA as a new land at DL, and it's hands down my favorite one. Sure it's separated from the rest of the park but nothing stops me from walking across the the entrance plaza all day long so it's all the same place to me. I actually have gotten off the Matterhorn traipsed across to California Screamin' then right back over to Space Mountain. Sure maybe one day DCA will grow up and be a destination of it's own but right now I don't think anyone would call it that. It sure ain't the "WESTCOT CENTER" so many people apparently thought it was going to be, which I think is the actual source of so much apathy towards DCA. It ain't a redo of Florida.

    As for Critter Country....I prefer GRR over Splash Mountain's long lines and musty smelling show building, Pooh doesn't really do it for me and I can get Tiger butter in DCA. So unless someone in our party just HAS TO ride Splash Mountain we stay don't venture into Stroller County very often. I miss the Country Bears....put 'em in DCA. They fit the theme of Grizzly Peak anyway.

    NOS is wonderful, but I've been riding the HM and PotC all my life, I doubt even the extensive refurbish PotC gets will stay fresh and new for more than a few rides (for me that is), then PotC will go back to being what it's always been for our family. Fun if the lines isn't too long, a great place to escape summer heat if the line isn't tooooooo long. But essentially the same old ride I've been one hundreds of times before. I'll willingly say I could be wrong about that but somehow I doubt it, afterall the HM Nightmare Before Xma$ overlay got old fast for me and I often would rather have no XMA$ overlay on the HM at all.

    I was THRILLED to see the new effects in the attic of HM. I spotted them in a second and was unaware they were even doing anything to it so it was cool, but now it's just another scene on an old adventure I've taken many times.

    Toontown.....Meh! Despite being so steeped in Disney history and characters Toontown feels least Disneyland of all to me. But you don't see me calling for it's destruction.

    So yes, NOS is a wonderful but all it's got on DCA is time for the landscaping to grow in and people to become very attached to it. All I'm asking for is that folks give DCA some time to grow before they call for "Bulldozing Paradise Pier"...yanno?

    As for DLP, I don't care what they get. I wouldn't go unless you gave me the trip, maybe not even then. I still don't even think there should be a DLP but there it is so we might as well have it near par to the rest of the parks, no?
    It's nice to know that some people care about parks outside of America ..hmm! DLP is a very good park, best park I have EVER visited, with almost all rides with a huge twist on the original concepts (Phantom Manor; Space Mountain, with a cannon launch; Big Thunder, with tunnels etc.). You should go there.

  14. #14

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    You just assumed automatically that DLP was rubbish! And how on earth vcan you say DLP is unnecessary! Go onto the DLP forum and say that huh! I am European and I see people like you assuming every non-America thing is rubbish. Can you even name any rides at DLP?

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    Re: DCA jealous of WDSP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorchio
    It's nice to know that some people care about parks outside of America ..hmm! DLP is a very good park, best park I have EVER visited, with almost all rides with a huge twist on the original concepts (Phantom Manor; Space Mountain, with a cannon launch; Big Thunder, with tunnels etc.). You should go there.


    You pay for it, maybe we'll go.

    IMO - YMMV - FYIGM


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